Newbie 1973 | Mountain | Over

[CheekyTeeky]

As a personal preference, I don't like pressuring people that have just replaced in. Give 'em a chance to catch up and see what's going on. Regardless of what my alignment is or what I think their alignment is.

Fair.

[chazary]

with so much evidence. Seems like grasping at straws.

You realize this doesn’t make any sense, right? If I provided evidence to support my read, how the fuck is it “grasping at straws”?

What I mean is evidence that seemed very nit picky. You practically pulled from every one of Cheeky’s posts and attempted to read each one as scummy. Rather than point out the few examples of suspicious behavior she’s exhibited like her naked Arthur vote (unless I’m really the only one who finds that odd) you opt to press her on every little thing she’s said or done despite none of it being entirely indicative of scum.

Not to mention that most of the stuff you talked about in scumreading her happened after you voted for her and most of it wasn’t even in response to your vote which she seemed wholly unbothered by anyway. That’s what I’m most suspicious of.

Don’t get me wrong I’m suss of Cheeky too. But I’m looking at the two of you in regards to what fraction of your posts seem scummy. Cheeky has posted a lot and only one thing she’s done has caught my attention. You on the other hand have posted far less and yet almost every one of your posts points to you being scum or emphasizes the scumminess of a prior post you made.

Don’t worry I’m getting to defending myself but that’ll take more than my 30 min break at work. I also have some townreads I want to share but no ones asked me yet :’( I feel so unwanted. But I’ll give them anyway later.

[Mitillos]

@ETL: Why would you think that off-the-cuff posts would be explicitly avoided? You are scumreading Teeky, who is clearly OK with making off-the-cuff posts (see posts 19, 40, 139, 187, 212, 253, and 274). Why would she explicitly coach anyone to not do this? For that matter, why would any player tell another player how to structure their posts? That could only lead to trouble, when the latter player unavoidably slips up.

[chazary]

So I'll start with my reads so far and see what more I can muster up after that tn before I go to bed.

-town-

Mitillos; came into the game already in the hot seat given Gyro's past activity but didn't try to defend Gyro's actions in an attempt to save himself. Instead he came in, gave his reads for everyone, and has just been responding to other people so far. Nothing suspicious. Only thing I could possibly point out is how quick he was to vote for me, but he gave his reasoning in the same post prior to the vote.

PenguinPower; although been AFK for a while, didn't do much at the start to raise suspicion. Still has a vote for Mitillos which seems odd. When Gyro was removed I was waiting for an un/revote. Never happened. Mitillos joined. Still waiting. Going to say its bc hes V/LA.

Ph0enix; his hesitance to vote is what puts him up here for me. I feel like if he were scum he'd feel a lot more pressure to place a vote by now. Especially given that he is also new to the game. At least on this site in particular.

-middle of the pack-

Farren; he's been pretty consistent with the way he hard presses suss players at first and then lets off as they start reading more town. So far he's backed up what he's said about his play style by the way he plays. Only thing not making him town is that Arthur vote. It still rubs me the wrong way that he and Cheeky both voted simultaneously despite neither giving any reason. Makes me think theres bts talk possibly going on. But still unsure.

Pine; just got here. Hello. How are you?

-scum-

ETL; I mean, what needs to be said that hasn't been said already. First theres the Cheeky vote with no explanation. Then the, like I've said, nit picking of her gameplay. Now getting

very

heated because they're being questioned for their Cheeky vote. Why get so aggravated suddenly? Because Cheeky, the person you're pressing so hard, is defending herself?

Cheeky; much less concerned with her than I am with ETL. Again, the Arthur vote is the only thing making me suspicious. She also has a tendency to explain her gameplay in the following format; "if i'm town i'd do this because A. If i'm scum I'd do this because B." Sounds like she's pulling the self-aware card in order to keep from seeming too suspicious. Also might just be trying to explain for the newbs, i.e. myself.

Arthur; kind of unsure of this one. Putting him down here still because his vote for me seems much more like a bandwagon than anything else he's trying to explain it off as. Agrees with previous remarks made about me w/o giving specifics. Says he's doing so to hear more from me, but I already had two votes. Not to mention he had read me as town before. Mitillos's one paragraph, mainly about my first two naked votes, which Arthur previously remarked as "forgivable", and Farren's bikini vote were enough to convince him?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.10

Laila Peak, Karakoram, Pakistan

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

chazary

(3): Mitillos, Farren, ArthurConyl

EspeciallyTheLies

(2): CheekyTeeky, chazary

CheekyTeeky

(1): EspeciallyTheLies

Mitillos

(1): PenguinPower

Not Voting

(2): Ph0enix, Pine

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-21 08:00:00).

Mod notes:

Mitillos replaced Gyro Zeppeli; Pine replaced Nomanssky101.

PenguinPower is V/LA until Sunday[/area]

[Farren]

chazary: you mention my vote on Arthur as suspicious - or at least the reason why you don't townread me. Why that one and *not* the bikini vote? Especially given that one was on you.

[Ph0enix]

Something's really bugging me when it comes to ETL. Unfounded accusation of PP, followed by what is to me an unfounded accusation of Cheeky as well, makes me want to put him in "possible scum" territory.

How the fuck is t unfounded when I SHOWED EXCATLY WHAT POSTS GAVE ME THAT IMPRESSION? Like who the hell are you to tell me what I’m seeing isn’t there? What are you even saying? Like where are you pulling this garbage from? Are you just making it up to sound like you’re involved and doing town things?

The fact that you quoted posts which you think support your statement doesn't necessarily make the accusation less unfounded. Plus:

Also shame on you cheeky for throwing shade on me for wanting to get rid of gyro. He was toxic AF. If I was intent on pushing policy lynches I would have fucking voted him AND YET I DIDNT EH? but sure. Shame on me for mentioning it lol

Everything you have said about me is twisted bullshit and it makes me more and more confident my read is correct.

I’m your biggest threat. So of course you’re going to try to misrep everything I say instead of explaining why I’m wrong.

This odd kind of defensive response will come back to bite you, just saying.

FoS ETL

@Phoenix: So, are you down to two possible scumreads? If so, why are you not voting for one of them? If not, how else have your reads changed?

To answer that question. There's still a discussion between me and Chazary about him accusing ETL right out of the gate. I'm also still not sold on his votes earlier. However, due to him being more active in the last couple of days and his recent posts, in which he makes some valid points. I obviously agree with him for questioning Arthur for his seemingly random vote on him. So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus, there are other more important things that need to be taken care of right now.

So, to answer Mitillos' question directly, as far as scumreads go, right now I'm down to ETL and Arthur. As to why I haven't voted yet, I'm still waiting for him (Arthur) to answer my question. Plus, the more I wait, the more I question ETL's alignment, we've gotten quite some evidence about her being scum in the last couple of days. So I'm not sure who is more suspicious. But, in light of recent events, my guess is that there will be a vote from me soon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Lots of people discussing how scummy I am and not voting me. That’s scum driven 100%.

I don’t care anymore. When I flip look at my reads please and stop being thickheaded.

[Mitillos]

@ETL: Those are not arguments. They are a blind assertion and an ad hominem. The reason I'm not voting you is that I considered chazary more scummy. So, tell me how this is scum-driven. Also, your reads are not so special that anyone who gives them anything less than immediate deference is being thickheaded. Like everyone else, you must be carefully evaluated by the other players.
As others have noted, you're being quite defensive for someone with just two votes on them. In your past games, did you have a tendency to react in a similar manner due to accusations and disagreement (as either alignment)? Do you have links to such situations?

[Ph0enix]

Lots of people discussing how scummy I am and not voting me. That’s scum driven 100%.

Again, I'm just waiting for Arthur to answer my question and see whether he'll slip up more than you already have, which, considering the fact that you continue being super defensive despite not having a lot of votes on you, is not that likely.

[Farren]

Lots of people discussing how scummy I am and not voting me. That’s scum driven 100%.

I don’t care anymore. When I flip look at my reads please and stop being thickheaded.

Two things:

1) Is this an emotional outburst, or a genuine attempt to identify scum? I'm inclined to think the former - "lots of people" means more than one; you've already got a strong scumread on Cheeky (who is voting for you); there are only two scum in this game. "Scum driven 100%" sounds very much like hyperbole given the first three points. But if it's the latter, please list names - and then start trying to puzzle out which of your scumreads is wrong.

2) I have seen times in games where the correct course of action for scum is to stop caring. I have never seen times in games where it's the correct course of action for Town. If you're Town, take a breather. Chill. Come back later.

[Farren]

I have seen no explanation from you that proves I am not interested in sorting people out and again the hypocrisy when you aren't even engaging me is pretty clear.

Cheeky: I want to be 100% sure I understand what you are trying to convey here. Is this an accurate paraphrase?

"ETL has accused you of not sorting people. You believe that ETL is not attempting to sort you - as evidenced by ETL not engaging with you. Therefore, ETL is a hypocrite (and thus scum)."

If it is not accurate, please let me know how.

[CheekyTeeky]

I have seen no explanation from you that proves I am not interested in sorting people out and again the hypocrisy when you aren't even engaging me is pretty clear.

Cheeky: I want to be 100% sure I understand what you are trying to convey here. Is this an accurate paraphrase?

"ETL has accused you of not sorting people. You believe that ETL is not attempting to sort you - as evidenced by ETL not engaging with you. Therefore, ETL is a hypocrite (and thus scum)."

If it is not accurate, please let me know how.

Close. "ETL is accusing me of not sorting her"
Is the only part I would change.
ETL being a hypocrite isn't the only thing that says scum to me. Hypocrisy in and of itself is generally NAI. In this instance, ETL scumreading me for doing the same thing she is doing is just another shiny object that deflects the fact she is the person behaving as scum. Look at how she accused me (falsely) of dodging her arguments just before she refused to answer anything directed at her in the thread regarding our 1v1 and just "gave up"

I guess she has chosen to hold rigidly to her tunnnel scheme and in light of the lack of town support she is receiving she has decided to act frustrated and apathetic as a means to continue avoiding the thread and contributing anything of value to town.
I'm

[ArthurConyl]

I see that some people have started thinking I'm scummy for "random" voting Chazary. Didn't I already explain why two times already?

VOTE: chazary
It looks like Mitillos and Darren want to lynch Chazary. It looks like a coupla other guys (including me) want to lynch ETL. While I think both of them are suspect, we should agree on one person, the most suspect person, to lynch. I think some good points have been made about Chazary. I want to hear more from him. VOTE: Chazary

Also to explain why I voted for Chazary, I initally was voting for ETL but I saw we weren't getting anywhere, so I switched to Chazary. I wasn't trying to lynch anyone, I just switched so there'd be a better chance of getting a read out of someone.

For the third time, I voted for Chazary because I found him suspicious. Its not like I was trying to jump on the bandwagon to get him lynched. Now he's answered some of the questions and I don't find him as scummy, I'm unvoting him. I'd vote for EspeciallyTheLies now, but some idiot will probably think thats scummy as well.
I'd also rather people not get the wrong idea about me from misunderstanding my vote. UNVOTE: Chazary

[Farren]

Initial reaction to 288: defensive. Concerned about optics.
Second thoughts: dive a little deeper. On review, that was in fact the third time answering the question "why did you vote for chazary?" (210, 257) So misreading frustration as defensiveness, maybe?

Concern about optics is one of those things where both scum and Town do it - but it tends to be more pronounced / likely as scum than as Town, in general. Depends on the player - and on the situation the player is in. This is concerned about optics on a currently hypothetical action, though - scum would certainly *think* that way, but less likely to post about it. Town less likely to think that way, more likely to post about it if they do.

Arthur: looking at your post 190, what if anything has changed in your read on ETL since then?

[chazary]

But there wasn't much to question in your first post to begin with so what else was she supposed to do. Thats why I asked if you two knew each other and assumed it was a joke RVS vote but I guess not quite. You give all this evidence and reasoning and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your Cheeky scumread but also you said this a bit later that you had only read the first two pages and that was two days after you voted her.
I don't remember anything super AI in those first two pages. I know that the end of RVS was uncertain at the time so it could've been random but why not say that?

...

I second this question. I get the logic behind sussing out her SvS/SvT logic but I'm unsure how that early in the game something like that would make you certain she's scummy.

Also, just throwing a random thought out there, but is it overthinking to wonder if Cheeky and ETL's rivalry so far in the game is just a much more elaborate SvS strat like what Cheeky suggested Phoenix and Gyro were possibly pulling at the start?

Well, anyway, VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

Basically I was willing to brush off the suspicious immediacy of their reads in their very first post had they come back to explain with far less certainty. But because we got the great wall of text that we did rather than some questioning of Cheeky, I find them suss. I think they may have dug themselves into a hole by making their first post, scumreading Cheeky, then going afk for a while to come back to people against them. It was too late to pull the "it was RVS" card so now they're frantically pointing to anything they can to defend their initial claim rather than consider other options. I find that much more suspicious than anything anyone else has done so far. So they get my vote for now.

Why wouldn't she be able to "pull the RVS card" exactly? She posted it at the beginning of the game as a vote that is part of RVS, then came back later and catched up to find that, after reading everything, Cheeky in fact IS suspicious even though her first vote against Cheeky was not well-founded. Seems reasonable to me. Again, still haven't read details about her scumread of Cheeky, but as far as I know right now, voting ETL just because of this only is a bit much, imo.

Sorry I’m getting to this so late. I don’t think RVS would’ve been a reasonable excuse given their vote was accompanied by a scumread. Plus I think this game moved very quickly out of RVS, at least that seems to be how some players here were acting; Penguin comes to mind as one who mentioned RVS already ending very early in the game. But it has more to do with how they voted than when. Yes it was around RVS but their posts doesn’t sound like it was random. And assuming ETL is scum, just for the sake of this argument, they probably knew claiming RVS would cast more suspicion bc their vote was already under scrutiny for its scumread of Cheeky. Why RVS with such a certain scum vote? Hence why they had to gather any and all evidence they could, even if a lot of it isn’t v AI, to back up their prior claim.

[chazary]

chazary: you mention my vote on Arthur as suspicious - or at least the reason why you don't townread me. Why that one and *not* the bikini vote? Especially given that one was on you.

Well this also has to do with why you weren’t in my scumreads either. The only thing making your Arthur vote suspicious is Cheeky’s following vote and her knowing your reason for voting Arthur as well. I understand the reasoning you gave for Arthur, although I think it was a little harsh given how quick you were, but that seems to be your play style. But when Cheeky came in immediately and also voted for Arthur is when I raised my eyebrow at both of you guys. Then she answered for you as to why you voted the way you did. Eyebrow raise x2. Then she gave a separate reason (if scum probably bc she knows she can’t say for certain your reasoning and back it up w/o your input first) but hers was a reach to say the least. Eyebrow now practically a second hairline.

And as for the bikini vote on me. It was only my second vote. Mit pointed FoS at me and voted me to press me for a response. Given your play style you probably also wanted to hear more after reading Mits read on me. Fair enough. Plus, I had a vote on me in the beginning too from Ph0enix I think it was (can’t remember bc they retracted it just as fast and I’m on mobile, not searching for it rn) but I didn’t respond to it. So clearly I’m not the kind of player who feels pressure from just a single vote. Therefor you gave me a second vote. To make sure I’d have to respond. Nothing suspicious about that from what I can tell.

[ArthurConyl]

@Farren his posts since then have leaned more towards scum. I'm not sure about ETL vs Cheeky. In a few posts he seems to be getting emotional. Still need more votes from ETL to decide, but definitely leaning scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

but some idiot will probably think thats scummy as well.

Don't play not to get scumread. Just find scum.

[CheekyTeeky]

289 is a great post Farren.

[CheekyTeeky]

Eyebrow now practically a second hairline.

Lol. I'd like to think that I wouldn't answer for my scumbuddy because that would implicate us both if one of us flipped scum down the line.

[ArthurConyl]

Initial reaction to 288: defensive. Concerned about optics.
Second thoughts: dive a little deeper. On review, that was in fact the third time answering the question "why did you vote for chazary?" (210, 257) So misreading frustration as defensiveness, maybe?

Concern about optics is one of those things where both scum and Town do it - but it tends to be more pronounced / likely as scum than as Town, in general. Depends on the player - and on the situation the player is in. This is concerned about optics on a currently hypothetical action, though - scum would certainly *think* that way, but less likely to post about it. Town less likely to think that way, more likely to post about it if they do.

Arthur: looking at your post 190, what if anything has changed in your read on ETL since then?

What's optics? I think the meaning of half your post was lost on me.

[chazary]

True I’d also like to think that. But of course in a perfect world I’d like to think the best of everyone in this game (except for

Serena

ETL)

[PenguinPower]

Back. I'll catch up during lunch today. Doesn't look like I have too much to read through.

[PenguinPower]

Possible scum: Farren, Arthur, Chazary

Why aren't you voting one of these?