Mini Normal 2109 | Newbie Quotes II: Newb Boogaloo (Day 3)

[ofrhz]

Sauce, what are your scum and townreads? Do you still townread wake? If so, why and what do you think about the wagon on him

[ofrhz]

Is there a particular player you think I got my read on wrong like for example do you think one of the players I'm leaning town you're leaning scum on?

I’m also low key curious why you responded to sauce but not Joey saying basically the same thing about your read list

[Joey_]

Mafia is most likely 2/3 afk and its annoying. This game is bound to be annoying; theres already a few vla up to 18th december then it’s going to be an afk fest up to 2-3th of january

[Joey_]

Is there a particular player you think I got my read on wrong like for example do you think one of the players I'm leaning town you're leaning scum on?

I’m also low key curious why you responded to sauce but not Joey saying basically the same thing about your read list

Historically I see a lot of ppl who tends to not reply to me heads on because I am very confronting and impulsive. It might be AI

[Adorable]

Scum/Invisibility - I did not like his interaction with Jake and I did not like the vote on Alimdia and he didn't even explain his vote. On day 2 all he's doing is sheeping.

what about them? also why didn't you like my vote on Alim and how did I not explain it?

On #379 you voted Alimdia without providing a reason. I'm looking back on your posts right now and was your explanation on #380? It would have been alot more easier for me to see if you put your explanation and vote on the same post since I did not know your explanation was on #380 instead of it being on #379.

Adorbs - why did you vote Vizzy over Billy?

My list I made is towniest to scummiest. I voted Vizzy because he is on the bottom of my list.

What’s wrong with sheeping? I think it’s better to sheep townreads if you have no strong scumreads than to not vote at all and having your vote be wasted.

I saw that you also think billy is playing his scum meta. Can you go into that? Would you be interested in building a billy wagon?

The game I played when Billy was scum he was asking players questions, providing his thoughts, and voting players he was scum reading. A player scum read Billy saying his play looked different from the last time they played with him and Billy got lynched because of that. I'll also be interested in building a Billy wagon.

Is there a particular player you think I got my read on wrong like for example do you think one of the players I'm leaning town you're leaning scum on?

I’m also low key curious why you responded to sauce but not Joey saying basically the same thing about your read list

Saus asked me a question I responded back to and Joey did not ask me a question.

[Adorable]

To elaborate on Joey's response to my reads, he did not ask me a question about my reads and the way how I read his post it looked more like he did not like my reads and catchup.

[alimdia]

Sorry been busy, will look at Adorable and Invis and the other ppl's interactions in the last page

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Hmm... why dont you want other people using meta in their cases?

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Why? I caught people d1 from reading their scum game

cos meta is unreliable from personal experience. 2nd hand meta more so. I'm busy af and don't have time to go read someone else's game at this time. And no, I'm not gonna take anyones word that someone is town/scum based on X meta, even if I TR them heavily. Have an actual case please.

[Joey_]

Sorry been busy, will look at Adorable and Invis and the other ppl's interactions in the last page

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Hmm... why dont you want other people using meta in their cases?

Sorry fellas can we not do meta lol? Talking about Billy's games

Why? I caught people d1 from reading their scum game

cos meta is unreliable from personal experience. 2nd hand meta more so. I'm busy af and don't have time to go read someone else's game at this time. And no, I'm not gonna take anyones word that someone is town/scum based on X meta, even if I TR them heavily. Have an actual case please.

I dislike vcas but it doesnt make them invalid. Meta is part of the game and you have to deal with it

[Joey_]

I am a tone read. I linked a few reads i got from using "meta" in my past 3 games, on all of those, i was wrong once and it was arguably someone playing his best game

Spoiler:

I just skimmed mutant's last scum game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=30609

And honestly his posts are significantly different than his posts in this game. Inb4 I am wrong and I look silly post game but, tone reading is basically one of my strength (and weakness) and mutant post's as scum are unsubstantial, shows no emotions (classic s tell) and he's seen constantly doubting himself & taking stances meant for posturizing (like half reads, non-comital stuff, asking himself questions etc). Also, in his scum posts, its very obvious that he's shading people left and right which is scum agenda.

Mutant is obviously someone who can express himself very well which offer some sort of distance from his writing style and his emotions. In this game tho, the way he showed emotions was when he cranked his own posts when he felt pressure, which he recognized himself. His walls this game imo almost never showed agenda; everytime he outed a read he nuanced it and, irrc, didn't discredit someone for the sake of discrediting (like he did as scum).

Exemples of his scum shades
"are you claiming that your role enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me.

Or are you just being dumb

and actually mean this"

His wording is non-comital he's offering an "out" to whoever hes investigating, which is a read that comes off as non-agressive since being dumb is NA

"Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum?"

His wording is non-comital, trying not to comes off as having a strong read. That's probably his worse post that I skim

"I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them."

His wording is non-comital and his read is implied. After outing his read, he's admitting mechanic ignorance which decrease the tone of his read yet still shades a slot

His shades/answers this game
"A large majority of people prefer playing as town. So it's statistically likely that you too prefer playing town. Hence, if you're saying you think your alignment is crappy, you're admitting that you are mafia?
VOTE: pisskop"

Committal wording, he's not using wording where he's 2nd guessing himself, he's offering no out

"this is a pretty strong conclusion to come to. So I must ask how serious this conclusion is? It seems odd to me that anyone could be so closed-minded this early into the game."

Implied read using words that are NAI and he's offering an out "early game". This fits his sucm posting but the wording is much different IMO. He's not using 2nd guessing wording and close-minded is much less discrediting of someone's character than "dumb" is

"Also, I'd like you to justify your statements that I'm A) Tryharding and B) trying to blend in. Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but they are pretty damn close."

Non-comittal wording, implied read and you can argue he's offering an out. Again this could fit his scum posting but I feel the wording/tone is much different

"Your issue is that you're treating my vote as RVS. I've already explained that it was not an RVS vote. It was a calculated and intentional vote albeit with reasons I didn't genuinely believe - this had the sole intention of generating content. Until that point nobody had said anything meaningful.
Why does making an early vote that uses effort and logic instead of just near randomness make me scum? It shows an element of tryharding, sure. But what about that is inherently scummy?"

Here he is answering a post shading him, but not once did he shade or imply a read toward that person in any way, there's no scum agenda and he's engaging the content of the post. IMO, if he was scum w/ the meta from the linked game, he probably would've sliped a few shading comments in there

"You're saying a lot of things about me here that I agree with yet I still don't understand how you come to the conclusion I am scum. Yes I took issue with the position in the game (in that nothing of substance was being said). Yes I am incredibly self-aware. Yes I have primarily a logical approach to things. And yes I was trying to be useful and proactive. So what I don't understand is why all of those things are bad? Or at the very least, why you think they are bad? I consider all of those traits to be positive, or at the very least neutral, so the only reason I can see that you'd suspect me for displaying them is if you think I'm faking them. Until your most recent posts, it really did not seem like that was what you were accusing me of. So am I right in saying that the reason you are currently scum reading me is because you think my blatant display of those traits is me faking and overselling them?"

Same as above

"I don't see what town motivation there is to purposely stunt my ability to read you."

This is his first kinda shade towards pk after like 2 wall posts and a half which shows town POV because he's saying he's having a hard time reading PK, its coherent with someone who just had a huge conversation and didn't imply a read on them.

Its pretty blatant this is mutant's town game

I skimmed and i think it is the same, I will have to dive deeper later

you didn't have time to skim jack shit

plus, no it's not the same at all

I did skim, its pretty subjective what skimming means. Did you ask me what exactly I did ? No, then why do you imply I am lying or shade me ?

Also, I said I disagree but needed to dive deeper and more correctly. Whats the purpose of this post but just to shade me?

I read a few recent games of detective as both alignement and my confidence on her slot flipping scum decreased significantly
VOTE: primate

I did skim the linked game, imo he was scummy in that game and tone is different

Also, the millerized claim would be a pretty ballsy power move right out of the gate, unlikely but def possible

Still TR primate, but can trust rainn, and still waiting for that meta talk about primatescum

I am the main pusher on primate and i have never mentioned meta. The only time i did, was someone pointing out that he was playing like his town self; i skimmed his past games and disagreed

First linked game, his posting is significantly different from skimming, lookin' at 2nd

I still think this game is different than the 2nd linked game in tone; a bit like my mutants case. He obviously can express himself really well but he tends to be overcautious and not commit in his wordings

I actually disagree but hindsight 20/20

The 2nd linked game feels like an actual tryhard scumgame, the 1st linked one being a casual scum game. This game, his posting patterns looks much more like his casual play yet his tone is much better than the ruby game, shrugs

I am going to assume this is his town tryhard;
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11178158

The tone is pretty hard to differentiate from his 2nd linked game, meh. I don't think tone works for him besides in ruby

I showed my reads can fail (even if I knew a priori that my titus meta sucked) so y'all should reread the game yourself and find more than one scumread

I have an exam tomorrow morning hence why I didn't take the time to make my towncase.
Basically it's tone & content from meta, simple. I played with him a long time ago and IIRC his slot was abysmal and scum while this game he's able to show his thought process, has decent unique thoughts and is coherent within his own process (even if I disagree with a lot of stuff). My plan was to search the last game we played and his recents scum game so I can do some diggin

@PM can you link me your most recent scumgame

Also, from a langage perspective, I remember PM being extremely erased and having absolutely not self confidence whatsoever in the scum game we played.
This game, he's using wording that implies he's in a position of power; see "lenient" he used in 986. This most likely also means that he very much prefer to play town than scum (assumption)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Adorable, why do you think scum are less likely to want to meta dive? I think scum have the same amount of incentive to as town because it can greatly increase their chances of successfully manipulating certain players and identifying particularly strong town players.

[Joey_]

Adorable, why do you think scum are less likely to want to meta dive? I think scum have the same amount of incentive to as town because it can greatly increase their chances of successfully manipulating certain players and identifying particularly strong town players.

Thats such a scum pov to have

[Joey_]

I refuse to lynch in alim/ofrhz/adorable today and somewhat billy/sauce

IMO today’s pool should be LUV/inv/jake/wake and the rest i mightve forgot

[Joey_]

I am probably flipping rb at some point too with how hes been playing

This comes off even more strange now than it probably did initially. Can you talk about your experience with rb?

My experience is pretty limited. We played one game as scum together a few years ago. I think I read one or two of his t games while trying to replace in one his game a while ago but never actually replaced in. One old time friend of mine (Transcend) who I respect a lot as a player told me rb was very decent and an overall great player.

Thats about it. When i know someone should be above average, I expect above average reads

[ofrhz]

cos meta is unreliable from personal experience. 2nd hand meta more so. I'm busy af and don't have time to go read someone else's game at this time. And no, I'm not gonna take anyones word that someone is town/scum based on X meta, even if I TR them heavily. Have an actual case please.

You can just ignore the meta element. Billy is scum because:

- bad/fake sounding tone
- weak reads
- little influence on the game

[ofrhz]

VOTE: LUV

Out of your lynchpool, I’m down to try this since wake is vla

[ofrhz]

Not Voting (5) - SausasaurusRex, Wake88, Jake The Wolfie, Billy Pilgrim, Lil Uzi Vert

Can everyone here distill their reads the next time they check in?

[SausasaurusRex]

Adorbs - why did you vote Vizzy over Billy?

My list I made is towniest to scummiest. I voted Vizzy because he is on the bottom of my list.

It took me a while to catch up. I'm now all caught up and this is where I am at right now.

Town/Joey - Looking at his posts it looks like he is sorting players and one of his recent posts I saw he asked Billy to link him his scum and town game and I don't think scum would say this and normally it comes from a townie who wants to make sure they got their reads right.

Town/Alimdia - He looks observant saying Invisibility and Jake are unlikely to be a scum team and his thought process does looks like it comes from a townie mindset.

Town/Sausasaurus Rex - On #347 his town read on Jake looks reasonable saying that Jake seems to be playing very similar to the last game they played together when Jake was town and I don't think scum would bring up a players previous game saying they seem to be playing similar to the last game they played as town.

Town/TrisOrfhz - I didn't really see anything from Tris that stood out as town and when Orfhz took over from that slot he votes Sausaurus Rex and then he switches his vote to Billy since he said he read through Sausausaurus Rex last two games and I don't think scum would read through a players previous games.

Neutral/Jake - On day 1 he has been defending himself alot and then he asks players to just quickhammer him and this is a really weird thing for a scum to say this though I have seen a scum say this only once. Looks like my predecessor has played with Jake before and mentions Jake was playing similar to the last game they played together when Jake was town. Only problem I had with this slot is I did not like his interaction with Dolly since his posts looked like he was taunting Dolly.

Neutral/Wake - He asks questions, says he will follow up on a reads list but he never did and that hammer was unexpected. Talks too much about his meta and says scum always keep him alive to get him lynched. I will need to understand him better since this is my first time playing with him.

Neutral/LUV - I didn't see much of him and I can't get a good read on him.

Scum/KcdBilly - Most of Kcd's posts were fluff and he votes Jake for defending himself and that is not a good vote reason. He town reads and scum reads players without explaining why they are town or scum. I recently finished a game with scum Billy and the posting looks similar to his scum game.

Scum/Invisibility - I did not like his interaction with Jake and I did not like the vote on Alimdia and he didn't even explain his vote. On day 2 all he's doing is sheeping.

VOTE: Invisibility

Lots of these reasons don't seem very good to me. Could you perhaps go a little more in-depth?

The players I have been leaning town this was based on a post they made I thought looked townie and I didn't think scum would say something like this. Players I was leaning scum I didn't see a post from them that looked townie and the play from them looked suspicious. The neutral are the ones that are either I'm still not sure on them or they would be hard for me to get a read on. Is there a particular player you think I got my read on wrong like for example do you think one of the players I'm leaning town you're leaning scum on?

I just feel a single post isn’t worthy of a full town or scumread, especially at this point in the game.

[SausasaurusRex]

Sauce, what are your scum and townreads? Do you still townread wake? If so, why and what do you think about the wagon on him

I’m a little busy at the moment, but I’ll post a read list tomorrow. Sorry about that.

[SausasaurusRex]

EBWOP: Yes, I do still townread Wake, and I don’t particularly like the wagon on him. I’ll explain why in my read list tomorrow.

[Adorable]

Adorable, why do you think scum are less likely to want to meta dive? I think scum have the same amount of incentive to as town because it can greatly increase their chances of successfully manipulating certain players and identifying particularly strong town players.

When I was reading day 1 I was a bit skeptical on Joey halfway on day 1 and this is what I noticed on the interaction from Joey and my predecessor Arkias. On #254 Arkias was town reading Jake based on a previous game they played together and he figured that's how Jake plays as town and he scum reads Invisibility. On #443 Arkias asks a question about wall texts saying he normally posts in wall texts but that gives him a low post count and when he was looking at eth0s, Dolly, and Tris posts it looked like to me he noticed they were responding in single quote posts instead of multiple wall posts and I'm guessing Arkias was saying if posting in single quote posts is better.

On #447 Joey says Arkias #254 was darn shallow saying there's no unique thought process or reads from a genuine town and I didn't understand on what Joey meant by shallow and saying how there was no unique thought process and then Joey says Arkias was outing 4 reads on #443 saying it's pure garbage but there was no reads on #443 and it looked more like Arkias was asking a question about wall posts if he was playing this right and I assumed Arkias was thinking should he be responding in single quotes instead of multiple wall posts after looking at the way how eth0s, Dolly, and Tris have been responding.

On #455 Arkias responds back to Joey's questions, on #475 Joey says great post from Arkias saying this was what he was waiting for also mentioning Saus and on #477 Joey said his lead ended up colder and he unvotes. Joey talking about Arkias #443 post still leaves me wondering if he misunderstood Arkias and Joey's unvote made me think this was probably town who was sorting or do you think Joey unvoting after seeing good posts from Arkias and Saus is NAI?

[Invisibility]

Scum/Invisibility - I did not like his interaction with Jake and I did not like the vote on Alimdia and he didn't even explain his vote. On day 2 all he's doing is sheeping.

what about them? also why didn't you like my vote on Alim and how did I not explain it?

On #379 you voted Alimdia without providing a reason. I'm looking back on your posts right now and was your explanation on #380? It would have been alot more easier for me to see if you put your explanation and vote on the same post since I did not know your explanation was on #380 instead of it being on #379.

Adorbs - why did you vote Vizzy over Billy?

My list I made is towniest to scummiest. I voted Vizzy because he is on the bottom of my list.

What’s wrong with sheeping? I think it’s better to sheep townreads if you have no strong scumreads than to not vote at all and having your vote be wasted.

I saw that you also think billy is playing his scum meta. Can you go into that? Would you be interested in building a billy wagon?

The game I played when Billy was scum he was asking players questions, providing his thoughts, and voting players he was scum reading. A player scum read Billy saying his play looked different from the last time they played with him and Billy got lynched because of that. I'll also be interested in building a Billy wagon.

can you explain what was bad about my interaction with Jake?
also was the reason that Billy was playing different that game that he was asking questions and stuff?

[Invisibility]

hey j
hey jake what's your rea
read on me

[Joey_]

Then she posted (402)**

@jigglypuff i corrected myself there about the “4 garbage reads” comment. It was intended to reference 402 and not 443.

Ark was playing shallow because she had no game content at that point in the game. I said “the post i was waiting for” in comparison to what she is able to produce (from meta, i mentionned that in a previous post) and how generally i expect town reacting to a push

[Joey_]

Well, I think Tris is town. RB is probably town too.

Between the Jake and Invis thing I mentioned earlier, I can't really see either of them being scum.

So, for now,

VOTE: unvote

I'm going to give the thread another read and try to get some analysis going on.

Also, I like that pirate gif. It reminds me of Monkey Island.

4 reads, no explanations; its a shallow post where she shows no though process in trying to sort or in her processus to sort. Its a garbage post

[Joey_]

I will reread the game and make a readlist, i suggest everyone do the same