Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[AaronFrost]

My TR on Amrun is mostly gut/tone. 1228 especially struck me as townie. Why would scum Amrun feel the need to ISO one of Icon's scum games?

[GuiltyLion]

Oh one other thing I wanna say though, part of my reason for scumreading Amrun initially that I couldnt mention was her early game felt very different to me than her play in the High Noon micro game we just finished where I was townreading her, but she flipped scum in that game so ?? I think that makes her more likely town in this game lol

This is why meta sucks... And god if people use 2nd hand meta..

@GL, thoughts on DW's post 1418?
Love it when 2 SRs VS each other

Eh, I don't like that she says there's nothing alignment indicative in me voting her, but I'm not really sure that's something scum would say. Overall she seems to be playing very safe/cautious so far this game which makes me generally lean scum but I wouldn't be shocked to see her flip town. She's one of the slots I want to resolve and feel more decided on today but I think it might be useful to see her interact outside of me at this point

What are your thoughts on 1418?

[GuiltyLion]

Oh one other thing I wanna say though, part of my reason for scumreading Amrun initially that I couldnt mention was her early game felt very different to me than her play in the High Noon micro game we just finished where I was townreading her, but she flipped scum in that game so ?? I think that makes her more likely town in this game lol

Different how?

It's a little hard to explain since I was playing both games simultaneously and generally picking up on ~vibes~ more than anything super tangible, but I guess in High Noon we were mind-melding on a lot of points and she felt a lot more decisive and proactive about calling out bad pushes and defending people getting unfairly shaded - and I agreed with all her takes. Here she seemed to be sitting back more and asking shallow questions and not following up on them as much. Now I don't think any of the behavior in either game was inherently alignment indicative (clearly, since I misread her in High Noon), but I did feel they were different in how she came across and since I was town reading her in High Noon I felt it might be scum indicative here.

[GuiltyLion]

quick hot takes:
1) I like Menalque's argument about lynching off wagon, I doubt all three scum were on the wagon.
1a) however what if Menalque is scum I'm not sold on him being town yet
2) DoLittle's reads aren't bad
3) I don't love Datisi's Aaron push, in fact I kinda hate it

I'm about here I think:
Town club: {alimdia, Aaron, Iconeum, Smart}
conditional members: {Menalque, Amrun}
lynchpool?: {DoLittle, texcat, Datisi, DogWatch}

however I don't think it's likely that all three scum are in that lynchpool block either so there are some knots in my game state view I need to work out

[GuiltyLion]

Hah, it actually read to me as a fake ~townslip~

What would I have to gain by faking a townslip? I wouldn't even consider that a townslip either.

The reaction in 1399. You'd have ez TR's to gain. And coming in the day wondering if the kill was made by scum or Town (when it's much more likely both were made by scum) sounds like a ~townslip~ to me.

Plus, that whole part about "figuring out if Pret's been shot by scum or Town" and listing 7 people he was suspecting feels a bit like both fake busywork and insincere, since one of Creature's last pushes was you.

Hah, it actually read to me as a fake ~townslip~

What would I have to gain by faking a townslip? I wouldn't even consider that a townslip either.

The reaction in 1399. You'd have ez TR's to gain. And coming in the day wondering if the kill was made by scum or Town (when it's much more likely both were made by scum) sounds like a ~townslip~ to me.

Plus, that whole part about "figuring out if Pret's been shot by scum or Town" and listing 7 people he was suspecting feels a bit like both fake busywork and insincere, since one of Creature's last pushes was you.

So because Creature was scumreading me that means everything I do is fake and insincere?

That logic might hold up if Creature was still in the game, but he's not. And even if he was, his read on me wouldn't effect how I play the game.

I never said that. What I was referring to (and which struck me as odd) is that you listed out all the names Pret gave out as possible scumbuddies of mine. I think Town would be more likely to just name Pret's strongest SR (me) then to list a bunch of names out. Why did you a bit after listing them conclude that both kills were probably made by scum?

And how would that logic be still holding up if Creature were alive?

these posts in particular feel disingenuous to me
1) the reasoning is driven by using a "Aaron = scum" assumption and then arguing from there. It's not a surefire tell here because the first post is directly responding to a "why would this make sense if I were scum" question, but it still pings me as reachy because I feel like Datisi should be constantly evaluating against a simpler explanation where Aaron is just town, and it feels to me like she's not in order to make this push
2) the second post strikes me as trying to force a "gotcha" than something super indicative. Overall I don't see Aaron's 1407 and 1408 as notably scummy nor worth pushing on to this degree.

[Something_Smart]

Why would scum Amrun feel the need to ISO one of Icon's scum games?

... because that's what she'd do as town?

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 2.2

Amrun [1] - DrDolittle
Dogwatch [1] - GuiltyLion
AaronFrost [1] - Datisi

Not Voting [8]

- Amrun, Dogwatch, Something_Smart, Iconeum, Menalque, alimdia, texcat, AaronFrost

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-21 11:56:16)

[GuiltyLion]

y'all nonvoters need to vote, there's nothing forcing anybody to do anything right now

[DrDolittle]

GL is my reads are poor why does it intersect with yours so little

[DrDolittle]

Are not poor*

[GuiltyLion]

There's a difference between "being in agreement with my reads" vs "making sense from a town!you perspective", main thing I keyed in on was mutual townreads on Ico and Alimdia as I think those are good reads and less likely to come from scum here as those two also feel like people that could get ran up today / have had suspicion from others on them. Also not just shoving texcat into a scumread pile I think is townie as well.

Main thing I disagree on is Aaron scumread but other people are chasing that too so I wonder if it's just something I'm missing? He really doesn't feel all that scummy to me

[Datisi]

How can you honestly be trying to sort DDL if ur not saying Amrun in the same sentence?

Okay not sure what these two have to with eachother?

[Datisi]

GL, are those two posts the only thing that dropped me from strong Town straight into your lynchpool?

Ftr, 1407 and 1408 felt really fake to me, that's why I was bringing them up. Aaron doesn't feel necessarily "scummy" to me either, but something just sorta feels ~off~. The problem is that there's a quite a bit of slots I'm not exactly TRing.

[GuiltyLion]

It's not just those two posts but kinda the larger context of Pretentious getting killed while scumreading you + you pushing Aaron as soon as he called that out (and pushing Aaron in general) + me re-evaluating where scum might be on the Creature wagon. Like I feel like if we're both town, you should be with me on Dogwatch looking pretty bad?

The lynchpool is more kinda "meh I think scum exist somewhere in here" than any super strong scumreads which is why I'm a little lost at the moment

However I dooo kinda get what you were suggesting with DDL/Menalque potentially being a SvS vibe so I want to see where that goes once Menalque efforts more on d2. Like he's claimed a 100% ability to read you so if he townreads you I'd sheep that for today but I feel if he's scum and you're not you all are gonna have to have a go at it at some point if you're starting to suspect him

[Datisi]

I am with you on DW looking Not Good, and I quite like 1453, I've been waiting for their reply to that. But I'm overall not TRing Aaron either, and most of my lower reads are PoE rather than actual SR's.

Yeah, I am kinda sorta starting to suspect him, mostly due to that weird DDL push, I don't know what to make of it.

[AaronFrost]

The problem is that there's a quite a bit of slots I'm not exactly TRing.

most of my lower reads are PoE rather than actual SR's.

So where does the PoE come in? How can you PoE if there's very few slots that you're townreading?

[AaronFrost]

Ftr, 1407 and 1408 felt really fake to me

Your push on me feels sorta fake too especially since you were TRing me yesterday

[AaronFrost]

y'all nonvoters need to vote, there's nothing forcing anybody to do anything right now

VOTE: Dogwatch

[Datisi]

TRs: {GL, Icon, S_S, alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena, DDL}
PoE: {Aaron, DW, Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

[Iconeum]

My TR on Amrun is mostly gut/tone. 1228 especially struck me as townie. Why would scum Amrun feel the need to ISO one of Icon's scum games?

To fake scumhunt? Granted scum would probably be a bit more thorough when calling that other game out? maybe?

How can you honestly be trying to sort DDL if ur not saying Amrun in the same sentence?

Okay not sure what these two have to with eachother?

If ur trying to sort DDL, then you need to sort Amrun as well. It's DDL's main scumread.

[Datisi]

Not sure I get it but ok

[alimdia]

Oh one other thing I wanna say though, part of my reason for scumreading Amrun initially that I couldnt mention was her early game felt very different to me than her play in the High Noon micro game we just finished where I was townreading her, but she flipped scum in that game so ?? I think that makes her more likely town in this game lol

This is why meta sucks... And god if people use 2nd hand meta..

@GL, thoughts on DW's post 1418?
Love it when 2 SRs VS each other

Eh, I don't like that she says there's nothing alignment indicative in me voting her, but I'm not really sure that's something scum would say. Overall she seems to be playing very safe/cautious so far this game which makes me generally lean scum but I wouldn't be shocked to see her flip town. She's one of the slots I want to resolve and feel more decided on today but I think it might be useful to see her interact outside of me at this point

What are your thoughts on 1418?

This is like, my entire point though. You made very sure to explain to us throughout that you were scumreading Creature. Then when a wagon started on him, you made very sure to explain to us that you were not sure what to do. Then when you voted him, you made very sure to tell us why you were finally voting him. It reads like a mechanical and crafted/calculated scum trajectory, not organic town doing shit to try to generate information.

Because one of the criticisms of this game was that few people were explaining their votes, so it made sense to do that. I just think it's good to explain your thought process when you vote.

"comical", why use that word instead of something that might describe my alignment? You're more focused on discrediting the content of what I'm saying than evaluating me. And are we really still talking about that damn amrun vote when there's been probably 1000 posts since then?

I can't just state what I think? It struck me as funny, that's all. And I don't think your vote is AI, so there's no reason to describe your alignment in relation to it.

That post is very neutral.
If it were their only post, I'd let them off. But their flip flopping behaviour is really suspicious , esp from day 1

[alimdia]

Sorry also the first 2 sentences are basically saying that by lynching Amrun, we can figure out more info about who was on the wagon.

I think others have discussed that in the last 2 pages.

What’s your read on me, alimdia?

I think the case on you day 1 was pretty shet tbh. Your actual alignment is clouded because of that since you'd have defended the same way town or scum.
However there were 2 main wagons on day 1, and the other one flipped town.

Me lynching you would only ever be for complete vote analysis.

VOTE: Dogwatch
I'm also done with texcat (or if it happens.. .GL)

[Datisi]

zzz half the day's gone and we've done jack shit
VOTE: Dogwatch
L-2

Icon, where's your mind at? Gonna slap a vote somewhere today?

[Amrun]

Why would scum Amrun feel the need to ISO one of Icon's scum games?

... because that's what she'd do as town?

This is not something I typically do as any alignment, ftr. I was reaching for straws because I have ~reasons~ to think Iconeum is a difficult read for me since I pick up on scummy behavior that may be NAI. But meta is trash so... sigh