Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Gamma Emerald]

Howdy
Anything in particular I should know, and is there any particular part of the game I should read?

your slot is one of the vaguest in the game and most players have openly stated they'd lynch it

Thanks. Sounds like I should get to work.

[Datisi]

DW, how caught up are you? I was the first to spit out the DDL/Mena tinfoil theory before that

[DogWatch]

DW, how caught up are you? I was the first to spit out the DDL/Mena tinfoil theory before that

ugh I'm skipping around a lot honestly, so not great. kinda half-coherent in a hospital bed right now.
anyway, can you link me to your ddl/menal stuff?

[Datisi]

Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre

You think DDL is scummy I guess, and you think he's potentially theatring with Menal of all players?

For the record, what gave me this impression was that
(1) Mena builds a case again Amrun
(2) Amrun wagon starts picking up
(3) Mena then starts callind DDL scummy while doing nothing to case him
(4) one person decides to jump on that wagon
(5) that one person ends up dead
(6) Mena then drops his DDL push on the basis of "scum!DDL would've killed me last night" even though literally 50% of the DDL wagon support was killed

Just because I'm TRing them both independently doesn't mean I won't call out things I find potentially suspicious

Whatever other concerns you have I'll have to address them in like an hour and a half to maybe two hours because I've got a test to fail in a bit here so I'll get to it later

Obviously things have happened from here to now and Mena is voting DDL again but I'm not yet cleared this isn't the case

Also yikes I hope you get better soon :/

[DogWatch]

so, if I'm understanding correctly, and I might not be, you think that it's worth calling Menal's bluff on the DDL lynch?

[Datisi]

Agh, not exactly. It's not a theory I have too much confidence in, since in a vaccuum I have at least a TL on both those slots. I was hoping things were gonna become a bit more clear as those two kept posting during D2, but DDL is kinda keeping at his SR of Amrun and Mena is kinda not engaging with me/this theory, so I don't know what to think right now.

[DogWatch]

I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not

What is your logic pairing me and amrun? I don't follow your SR on me.

[DogWatch]

alright I gotta run for now but I have been considering another go at the DDL wagon because I haven't liked his D2 play at all - most recently the way he asked me about my comment on his reads while also claiming to townread me was kinda jank - and I think regardless of your alignment he would make sense as scum, so maybe we can come together on that one, but I'll be out for the rest of today most likely so gonna leave it at that for now, in any case I appreciate you engaging with me more directly as it feels productive

So
I shouldnt call you out for saying I have good reads when they are orthogonal to yours

I am also amazed that you think my day 1 play is stronger when I did nothing.

This whole progression makes 0 sense

No, GL's whole point Day 1 was that he thought you WERE doing things, which is partly why he didn't like the menal push.

[DogWatch]

Doing an ISO on DDL... his entire Amrun tunnel is shallow as hell tbh

[DogWatch]

I understand both SS and amruns perspective and they come from so different mindsets that it shouldnt be theatre

If you're SRing Amrun as passionately as you do, and if the Amrun/SS argument isn't theater, then does it follow that you scumread SS?

[Something_Smart]

Townread me, you mean?

[DogWatch]

I understand both SS and amruns perspective and they come from so different mindsets that it shouldnt be theatre

If you're SRing Amrun as passionately as you do, and if the Amrun/SS argument isn't theater, then does it follow that you scumread SS?

Actually that should say townread SS

[Gamma Emerald]

Progress marches in the world of Gamma Emerald catch-ups, and I’m scoping out something somewhat new, plus a more new side idea.

Spoiler: Page 1

Sorry, you probably won't be topping the Pine lynch from G&R II.

Yeah that was dumb and I regret being part of that

There are 9 Town Roses remaining.

sons i am disappoint

Hi VOTE: Aaron Fucking Frost

Why the hell are you “disappoint”? That’s pretty baller imo.

I was trying to find some variation of "he said what we were all thinking" or "he's brave for telling the truth" in gif form but i didn't find anything good in the 3 minutes i was searching

There is the Jesus meme where it’s like “they hated him because he told the truth”
(Btw I’m stealing the pink color pops uses, and I’m gonna try using it for my fluffposting)

Wow I wasn’t expecting to have already been betrayed twice 14 fucking posts into the game

You've taught me to lie without a trace
And to kill with no remorse
On the outside I'm the greatest guy...
Now I'm DEAD INSIDE.

Hi Aaron

WHAT SONG IS THIS

Guess you didn't look at the first two runs of this setup then?

There may come a day when town doesn't massively favor one option over the other. But it is not this day.

I saw G&R2, where there were only 2 roses. So why would I now expect only 2 guns?

Exactly because of that: people reacted to that travesty by swinging the opposite direction.

Spoiler: Page 2

I saw G&R2, where there were only 2 roses. So why would I now expect only 2 guns?

Overcompensation!

Or something like that. G&R I had only one gun.

EXACTLY

Also you all suck

You should've used random.org to choose between gun and rose, not try to do the opposite of what was done the previous game

Or, yaknow, play to your strengths.

Claiming rose is not nearly as spicy when there are nine roses as it was when there was one...

It really isn’t, but I was just explaining why I chose what I did.

Specifically so I could say N3 Rose.

If you think that’s what I am, so be it.

I am kinda glad I can view Pretentious’s play with knowledge of his alignment but at the same time I’m sad I missed the chance to chill with him this game.
Counting this as fluff-stuff because it’s small talk regarding a flipped slot, I’ll probably have some points where something I deem as fluff-stuff isn’t as irrelevant as I feel but at least it let’s me provide a solid metric of what percentage of my play is fluff versus content.

Spoiler: Page 3

9 roses, not what I expected.

VOTE: Aaron

Well, as someone else mentioned, in the first game there was only 1 town gun.

Not a fan of so many soft claims already and then....

I meticulously planned my choice of gun and slash or rose, so I could do this.

Let’s make things spicy.

I’m a Night 3 Rose.

Counterclaiming this shit.

Rawrr!!!

VOTE: Icon

W-tf-dym “counterclaiming”? Did you not realize multiples were possible? And it was rather foolish to counterclaim there imo.

Spoiler: Page 4

Not a fan of so many soft claims already and then..

I only hard claim.

Why are you not a fan of soft claims in a game like this?

Surely nobody would straight up tell the truth about that this early, right? This is a very WIFOM’able game, ripe with gambit opportunity in the purest form, without the need or necessity of the overthought power roles and night actions. Just simple Guns and Roses.

Mostly because this is the first 'weird setup' mafia game that I've played. Also both scum and town can claim whatever, since the claim doesn't show alignment. But if you claim Night 3 rose and you're town, now scum can kill you night 1 or 2. I don't see how that benefits town at all, if you're town. And WIFOM'ing WIFOM's town as well as scum.

Also Also, obviously my counterclaim was a joke

Ok, why did you joke-CC him?

Never say I don’t love you ddl

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ns+n+roses

Also while finding this I saw there was a TAZ mini theme like 2 years ago and you have no idea how salty I am that I wasn’t around for that

There was actually a second one, which I was in. I think that was last year/very early this year.

Spoiler: Page 5

One player is lynched during the day as per usual, and one player is killed by the mafia during the night as per usual.

A player who picked a rose is immune to night kills during his/her chosen night.

FG: These two rules. Do kills get blocked by roses?

Is that for 11 town DrDolittle?

What is this question???

And I think you misunderstand, even if you knew already there were 3 scum you may not have been explicitly thinking about that when joking that the scumteam is 2 people. Which would still be a townslip bc I don't think scum would forget that so easily

I feel like trying to read something like this is just asking for WIFOM. I’m not gonna invite that vampire into my house, no sir.

Getting bad vibes from alimdia rn
Content Level: 54%

Unfortunately this is all I can do for now

[DrDolittle]

Yes sure do dogwatch

[Datisi]

I want to do dog watch. I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not

Why is DW all of a sudden a stronger (?) SR for you rather thsn Amrun?

DDL can you answer/elaborate on this?

[DrDolittle]

It's more math. I had this list, i think if amrun is scum, then SS or dogwatch are partners. Then through the exchange I ruled out SS amrun partners, so that leaves DW. But DW is independently scummy too

[GuiltyLion]

UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

alright I gotta run for now but I have been considering another go at the DDL wagon because I haven't liked his D2 play at all - most recently the way he asked me about my comment on his reads while also claiming to townread me was kinda jank - and I think regardless of your alignment he would make sense as scum, so maybe we can come together on that one, but I'll be out for the rest of today most likely so gonna leave it at that for now, in any case I appreciate you engaging with me more directly as it feels productive

So
I shouldnt call you out for saying I have good reads when they are orthogonal to yours

I am also amazed that you think my day 1 play is stronger when I did nothing.

This whole progression makes 0 sense

alright I gotta run for now but I have been considering another go at the DDL wagon because I haven't liked his D2 play at all -

most recently the way he asked me about my comment on his reads while also claiming to townread me was kinda jank

GL what is exactly the issue here?

grouping these together as they're both on the same topic

DDL's question to me felt a lazy/convenient and detached from a logical trajectory, the kind of busywork question that scum asks to look like they're participating/solving. Earlier he said he was townreading me, but then asked me the question in this way:

GL is my reads are [not*] poor why does it intersect with yours so little

this is phrased kinda aggressively, implying that there's potentially some issue with me saying his reads "aren't bad" (btw DDL "aren't bad" is not the same as "good") despite us having different reads. Which he then confirmed it was a "call out" in 1678

I think when I'm townreading someone and they say they can see where my reads are coming from but they have some disagreements, that's usually an invitation to try to find common ground or figure out which non-intersecting scumreads are likely to be poorly justified. I even tried to invite this dialogue in 1560. Instead the way he jumps to feeling like he needs to call

me

out rather than discuss the disagreements in the reads themselves felt like a lazy angle to take and made more to generate noise than to generate productive conversation.

Or put most simply I don't understand why town in that position (townreading someone with different reads) would be hostile/suspicious rather than collaborative.

[GuiltyLion]

GL, you've mentioned High Noon a couple of times wrt reading Amrun. Does my play from that game influence your read in any way?

it didn't originally because I didn't know you were the other half of the hydra until post game, so I didn't have any kind of simultaneous-game playing feels as I did with Amrun. I should probably reread it with that in mind I guess, but haven't done so.

[DogWatch]

@GL after looking at ddl in iso I’m coming around to him as scum but I’m NOT seeing an argument for a menal/DDL team.. this is where I’m stuck

[DogWatch]

actually I might not because would scum so blatantly tunnel amrun all game? I hate the tunnel fwiw but is it scum, I dunno

[GuiltyLion]

and I think regardless of your alignment he would make sense as scum

How does DDL make sense as scum if menal is scum? That would be some pretty hard bussing.

so this is all under the assumption that it is a DDL/Menalque team, it's not meant to be an argument for why that team is likely, just an argument for why it's not impossible from them:

1) First, as to why he'd go hard on pushing him - I think Menalque as a player tries to take a very vocal town-leader kind of role, which means he has to emulate this as scum. As town Menalque is active and demanding about getting lynches he wants, and that's something he would probably echo in his scumplay as well. So I think if he decided to "scumread" a buddy, he can't exactly back down or do it tentatively, or else that would make it a super obvious associative once he got flipped.

2) But also, how hard did Menalque

actually

push DDL? He gave a bunch of reasons for suspecting Amrun and hounded other players to vote her, but for DDL he basically just gave an argument of "he's posting but not doing anything". Which is shaky because DDL was in fact doing

some

stuff and other players were doing less, so naturally people are going to resist that line of thinking. And he kept promising a more convincing case later that never materialized. He also waited until people were more set in stone on who they wanted to lynch - it's hard to get 8 people to vote the same wagon in mafia, it's not something you can expect to materialize out of nowhere at deadline. So I would agree it was hard distancing but I don't believe Menalque really played in a way that was likely to get DDL actually lynched on D1, and he's dropped that effort significantly on D2.

3) Another point, if he's scum he knows he won't get NK'd by scum and so if he's leading the game and widely townread he's going to need excuses for why he doesn't die. He's already been commenting/speculating about not being N1'd today. And if he doesn't die and he's championing a lot of mislynches, that's going to eventually look poorly on him - especially since he's also prideful about being good at this game. Therefore it's in his interests to have a foundation laid down for plausible scumreads on a scum buddy and eventually getting rid of bussable partners at some point when it becomes necessary, and DDL is definitely a bussable partner given how he's played this game so far.

[GuiltyLion]

what I also think is weird having reflected on it more is DDL townreading Menalque, like, this dude was calling you scum all D1 and trying to get you lynched and you aren't suspicious of him in the slightest? really? I suggest I might switch to DDL and he decides to call me out while making no mention of Menalque?

[GuiltyLion]

also these last few pages basically entirely flipped my read on DogWatch, townreading her now

[Datisi]

GL, I'm having trouble reading that slot, mind elaborating on that?