Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Something_Smart]

For what reason do you literally not even register Pret’s reads, or anything Datisi has done even though they’ve been quite active, but have memorized Creature’s ISO even though he wasn’t here for half of the game day?

To be completely honest it's equal parts being used to Boon talking out of his ass half the time and not looking back early enough to where he really pushed it since he basically dropped off of caring about it.

[Menalque]

otoh I think AFF is basically locktown if ddl!town, there was a post he made that made me think very strongly that it's not SvT even if it can be SvS

[Amrun]

I also recently anti-spewed as scum that was clearly going down, and not the last scum, specifically to protect my partner and not make any of his mislynches unviable. It was radja’s recent micro and my partner was gamma. So I definitely know scum could and would do that.

[Datisi]

otoh I think AFF is basically locktown if ddl!town,

there was a post he made that made me think very strongly that it's not SvT

even if it can be SvS

go on

[Datisi]

S_S, what's on your mind? Any reads?

[Menalque]

I keep expecting S_S to explain that naked vote on me, but nope. Just hangin out for presumably no reason.


I strongly townread GL now, fwiw. On day 1 I could not follow his train of thought in a genuine way. D2, with the realization that he was comparing it so specifically to high noon, I do.

Menalque, why are you categorizing DogWatch as a lurker? I don’t.

because she has the lowest posts of everyone in the game aside from alim and tex/gamma!slot

I just checked and she had only 3 more posts than alim at the time that you posted this and he hasn't posted in 3 days so my question back to you is why don't you think that's lurky?

Eh, she’s been present for every major game state IIRC. Whenever she posts, it’s content. Not everyone is a spammer. That aspect doesn’t bother me.

eh, I'll reread, I'd say she's had a very low thread presence imo which is lurky

do you consider lurky to be inherently scummy?

I guess it depends on your definition of lurking. If you’re simply comparing number of posts down a list, no.

I guess my answer is still no, either way, though.

I think lurking is inherently antitown, but it’s a behavior town frequently engage in too. I just recently tried to stop a mislynch in LUV (chronic lurker) upon replacing into a game because I think his play, while antitown, made most sense to be town motivated. (I was right, fwiw.)

For me, it depends on HOW a player is lurking. What junctures do they choose to pop in? What do they say, when they do?

A lurker probably has better than random chance at being scum

, so I guess that kinda makes my answer yes, but... Context really does matter.

The shit texcat did, beetlejuicing and deliberately avoiding commitment on most major gamestate changes, THAT is lurking I find tremendously scummy. Gamma’s, however, is NAI because he’s catching up so he’s in a grace period for me.

yeah, I'm talking pure amount of posting happening in the thread

even if someone is putting out a big content post once every 48 hours, I still think they're being lurky even if they're not scummy for it

I agree that how a player is lurking is important to assess when deciding if it's scum!motivated lurking or not, I think people who lurk and then only appear when they're getting called out are likely to be scummy but with tex I just don't think there's anything like enough content there to say if it was just incredibly lazy/disengaged town or scum intentionally lurking it out and I don't see how the posts they did make are enough for you to be confident enough to call it "tremendously scummy"

[Menalque]

oh, and datisi is town @anyone wondering

[Datisi]

how did you arrive at that conclusion

menalque

[Menalque]

I also recently anti-spewed as scum that was clearly going down, and not the last scum, specifically to protect my partner and not make any of his mislynches unviable. It was radja’s recent micro and my partner was gamma. So I definitely know scum could and would do that.

hmm okay I do forget that some people worry about spewing partners instead of taking the opportunity to create bad associative for town when they're going down

[Menalque]

how did you arrive at that conclusion

menalque

well you're not in the scum pt with me so it was kind of an inevitability

[Datisi]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Amrun]

@Menalque: Part of it is that I keep waffling on my reads of other players, but I was internally discounting my read on tex for the same reason until I re-read day 1. In context, it came off as active lurking and the phrasing of his posts made me feel like he was avoiding associatives, and one that he was setting up mislynches, which I noted in thread.

It is rare that my top scumread is the lurkiest player, but alas... I’m in that sad position.

However, also voting DDL, etc etc

[Menalque]

its not even the leadership role, its blatantly sticking his neck out when he's clearly wrong. i don't think menalque-style-scum plays like that you know - he would give himself some form of out

idk

This is the reason I don't think Mena is scum. I think scum!Mena would've backed off of the DDL push by now because if it goes through, then he knows it'll look bad on him and he'd want to avoid that as much as possible.

I think the only scenario where Mena is scum here is if he's scum with DDL and this is his attempt at getting towncred.

like I just think that this is a really weird line to be trying to set up if you're scum!AFF thinking town!ddl is going through bc it makes it really hard for him to push me on a ddl!town flip but he's made other posts which could be him setting up to push me if ddl!scum

so basically I don't see the scum motivation in pointing out that you're thinking this as scum when you could just ~*not*~ say it

[Amrun]

Agree with 1987. AF/DDL never scum together. I also noted that at the time.

[Menalque]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

you're relaxed, and specifically you're being relaxed around me in a way that I think you struggle to emulate when you're scum and I'm town

and I don[t really see any scum!motivation in you trying to push people for reads and to make the game productive right now regardless of ddl's alignment because you're not using that effort to try to redirect away from him you're just trying to force a more productive gamestate and I don't think that's coming from scum you

[Menalque]

mostly the you not being in the scum pt thing tho

[GuiltyLion]

wait isn't Menalque saying they could be scum together tho, it's never scum!AF and town!DDL

[Menalque]

@Menalque: Part of it is that I keep waffling on my reads of other players, but I was internally discounting my read on tex for the same reason until I re-read day 1. In context, it came off as active lurking and the phrasing of his posts made me feel like he was avoiding associatives, and one that he was setting up mislynches, which I noted in thread.

It is rare that my top scumread is the lurkiest player, but alas... I’m in that sad position.

However, also voting DDL, etc etc

I'm still about 5 pages behind and have other people to respond to but I'll try to take another look at tex's posts

I just still don't think there's literally enough there for me to feel like I have a confident read on the slot, so I also think I wanna shelve gamma for today and see what he comes out with

prob won't hurt to have a fresh pair of eyes either, if the slot is town

[Something_Smart]

S_S, what's on your mind? Any reads?

GL town, Menalque town, Iconeum town, alimdia town

DogWatch said something I didn't like a while back

[Datisi]

i read 1980 and 1987 like 5 times each and i still don't get them but it's okay i'll reread them later

and Mena when I was the initiator of the Mena/DDL theatre theory your scum PT jokes are odd

[Menalque]

I think there is few scum on my wagon as they are content sitting back right now waiting out the deadline because there is no counterwagon threat.

on AF, I think this is maybe town?

if you think that scum is off wagon then can you just fucking lynch ddl with us so I can get the towncred I need to lead this game

hate to break it to you but a DDL scumflip is not how you're gonna get towncred from me

Seconding this, a find it strange that he thinks that'll get him towncred. At the same time, I think Mena knows that a DDL townflip would look bad on him so I don't think Mena is scum pushing a mislynch on town!DDL

Hmm, Datisi might be right about her tinfoil theory

although ss and alimedia are afk so idk

Pls lynch amrun day 3 after 2 town flips calling for her head. That is all

These are DDL's last posts at L-2 and under serious possibility of lynch. hasn't posted yet since intent to hammer. you really think this is all a townie cares to say as they're about to be rung up?

Last game I played with DDL where he was town he was a D1 Lynch in a Micro. here's his ISO from that game. Notice how much more aggressive he is giving out last thoughts/reads, and in general throughout.

Plus this post is fun:

"

I am meek as hell when I play scum what are you talking about

. I literally said in my last scum game, gosh people have scum agendas and plans and I'm just barely able to stay alive.

I want an appology from you after this game when I flip town if you are town too. what you are doing to me this game is entirely in bad faith."

this isn't the same DDL from that game.

okay yeah, I'll grant you this isn't great for him but have a look at the scum game he linked -- I don't think that's very similar to here either and I think he's being more aggressive in that than in here

on the flip side in both of them there are excuses to do with production of content, only in the one he linked it seems to be more to do with irl factors whereas here he seems to talk more about not feeling invested in the game

but yeah I'm not convinced that the whole "do you really believe this is all a townie says" thing is scum!indicative, I think there's p much just as many reasons for him to do that as town

[Menalque]

wait isn't Menalque saying they could be scum together tho, it's never scum!AF and town!DDL

yes

[Something_Smart]

Nvm that DogWatch bit I think 1719 is towny

[Menalque]

i read 1980 and 1987 like 5 times each and i still don't get them but it's okay i'll reread them later

and Mena when I was the initiator of the Mena/DDL theatre theory your scum PT jokes are odd

y tho

[Menalque]

more the why are my scum PT jokes odd when I do this in I think nearly every game now