Newbie 1973 | Mountain | Over

[PenguinPower]

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.04

Mount Kilimanjaro, Eastern Rift mountains, Tanzania

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Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

ArthurConyl

(2): Ph0enix, Mitillos

Not Voting

(5): PenguinPower, ArthurConyl, Aloratom, chazary, Farren

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-29 19:55:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Aloratom]

His explanation in 148 is total town.

How's that?

@Farren: Reasonable.

Yeah, I didn't finish that thought. Admittedly, there's not a whole lot there, but I think he's clearly into hunting in addition to seeking reactions, which aren't necessarily the same things, and he's been consistent the entire way. He takes on Arthur with help from Ph0enix and votes accordingly in 330, and Arthur flops on coming up with anything compelling in response.

[PenguinPower]

@Alora:

Could you finish your thoughts on the rest of the player’s, Alora? I don’t think your recent reads were as well thought out as your initial entry.

[Aloratom]

I'm not sure if PenguinPower is going Socratic or hunting, or both:
Question to Ph0enix, "How do you think we should go about trying to sort alignment?" 124
Question to Ph0enix, "So it would be town indicative to try and get as many thoughts from players as possible, right?" 130
Question to chazary, "And, what did you get from my reaction?" 170
And there are others.

He votes chazary and votes Gyro as point of instruction in 172. I don't think he was being a smartass.

Votes ETL in 306 after a brief exchange with him, but really no explanation given, and ETL promptly bails. I think ETL had other things going on, so getting anything out of that is a dead end.

He says early on that his gameplay changes (63), especially in newbie games. This seems in opposition to a later statement where he says that he doesn't like reading or making long posts (340). The latter statement seems definitive.

He really hasn't shared his reads let alone provided any analysis. He seems to be letting others do the work, and asking questions to get scum to out themselves. And in 70 he says that votes speak for themselves. I could ask how relying on play style alone doesn't put pressure on him if he is town, but I'll take him at his word. I'm leaning town. I'd be interested in hearing his reads, but I doubt that he shares much, if anything.

[Aloratom]

When I joined this game, I said that I was putting Arthur on the townreads, provisionally. The provision was that if he really is town, one would expect to see some actual scumhunting from him. All I have seen from Arthur up to now is just defense. He generally just argues with people who are scumreading him and doesn't seem to be interested in looking for mafia at all. His post 509 names all but two players (chaz and Pine) as town or leaning town, yet he doesn't bother voting either of those two remaining, despite the fact that there are exactly two mafia players. As I mentioned before, Ph0enix's case is compelling.

VOTE: ArthurConyl

Note: I also think that Penguin has been coasting and active-lurking. His towniness has been reduced in my eyes.

In 173 Penguin likes Arthur for town and in 515 he says Arthur is in his bottom two. What do you make of that?

[Mitillos]

@Alora: Well, I originally townread Arthur too, but changed my mind over time. That, in itself, is not an issue. The fact that he never made any other reference to Arthur in between is the sort of thing that makes me think he's been coasting and active-lurking, though. The thing is, by 515 Ph0enix had already voted Arthur and I indicated that I began scumreading him too. Furthermore, Farren was pushing Arthur (and had also voted him near the end of D1). It is not implausible that Penguin was simply going with the flow of expressed reads, to "fit in" in a sense. As you also said, he hasn't been sharing reads or analysis.

[PenguinPower]

And chazary has scum read Arthur as well. I’ll direct you to my 545.

I don’t typically do readlists, but sure...I’ll do one once I’ve been acknowledged by Alora.

[Plotinus]

chazary² has been prodded and has (expired on 2019-12-28 10:18:00) to post before I start looking for a replacement.

[Farren]

Gamestate feels stagnant, more than anything. I'd associate that with either an upcoming mislynch OR despondent scum.

Arthur does not feel despondent. That makes me think mislynch.

Why does scum|Arthur not vote? Why does Town|Arthur not vote? General question.

[Mitillos]

@Farren: Possibilities I can see:

Town-Arthur doesn't vote because he honestly doesn't know whom to vote, despite having called all but two players town or leaning town.

Scum-Arthur doesn't vote because he is worried that he will be further seen as opportunistic and prefers to wait for the momentum against him to die down instead.

Any-Arthur doesn't vote because he isn't engaged with the game, despite having given reads.

One of those seems far more likely to me than the other two.

[Ph0enix]

Arthur does not feel despondent.
Why does scum|Arthur not vote? Why does Town|Arthur not vote? General question.

Doesn't he? I got quite a "I don't care anymore, do whatever you want" kind of vibe from his post 538. He looks like he's given up on the game, imo.

At this point, Town Arthur does not vote because his votes (or lack thereof) up until now have come back to bite him.

Scum Arthur, though, does not vote for the same reason, so...

I mean, I don't know, the fact that the only thing he's done recently is defend himself instead of questioning others or rereading or trying to find more information in any way whatsoever, makes me think he's scum rather than Town. If I'm Town and someone suspects me, I'll continue to question others and scumhunt, because Town does not win by staying silent. Scum, on the other hand, could be a bit more quiet and get away with it. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think the whole "Do whatever you want, I can't change your opinion at this point" is a simple bluff which we should not fall for.

[Plotinus]

ArthurConyl² has been prodded and has (expired on 2019-12-29 05:56:00) to post before I start looking for a replacement.

[chazary]

His hesitancy over hammering Enter despite a stated scum read reads bad - especially given that you had obvious intent to hammer when you returned. His entrance today also pinged me - “Poor Cheeky”

Spoiler:

Battle of the bandwagons eh? Well my original vote was on ETL way back. Now Enter has done nothing to convince me of their innocence since then.

My vote on Arthur was a press to answer my question which he still has not done. Because of this, I am indifferent to lynching him. If the wagon pulls through I won't be mad. If not, I'd rather see Enter lynched than no one at all.

Intent to hammer Enter in

i dont know a proper amount of time to do this

~8 hours

? I honestly don't really know when I'll be back before deadline to do this. But I will be eventually.

If Pine doesn't vote in time or no one from Enter's wagon swaps and hammers Arthur, then I'll switch my vote.

You really had to quote my typo that makes me sound like a quirky 14 year old? Thanks.

I don't understand the difference between my fear of a controversial vote back in RVS and your fear of one later in D1 when you voted for me. Other than that, I understand your intent to hammer. I don't think its strange to scumread for hammering, though. Clearly some did find it suspicious. You switched away from ETL to vote for me before and then switch back when you see a chance to finalize the lynch. Thats reasonable evidence towards being scummy.

I'll also add to this post that I am responding as I catch up. Poor Cheeky. I really thought if ETL/Enter wasn't scum that Cheeky would be. Now here we are. Gotta rethink my reads.

About the intent to hammer, yeah that’s fair. All I can say is I was skimming the thread and didn’t see Farren give intent so I thought I should. Then later I was rereading and saw it but i had already made my post and Enter was already being hammered.

As for my “poor cheeky” statement. What about it pinged you? The phrase “poor cheeky” or something else in that line? I just felt bad bc she was one of the only ones actively scum and townreading even if I found her suspicious. But clearly she was town so why wouldn’t I feel bad about losing someone who was actually trying to help unlike some who barely post.

[chazary]

Yeah Arthur’s reads list definitely throws me off too. Puts him even further down on the scumreads. I’m only getting worried about his lack of defense. I mean we’ve seen similar behavior from Enter before lynching him and he turned out to be town.

Is Arthur going through the same exhausted townie who’s overexplained themselves situation? Or is he going through a scum not wanting to post nearly as much because A. they’re afraid they’ll say or do something incriminating and B. they saw how Enter acted as town and are replicating that to try and confuse us?

[PenguinPower]

As for my “poor cheeky” statement. What about it pinged you? The phrase “poor cheeky” or something else in that line? I just felt bad bc she was one of the only ones actively scum and townreading even if I found her suspicious. But clearly she was town so why wouldn’t I feel bad about losing someone who was actually trying to help unlike some who barely post.

It's a gut/tonal thing - just comes across as faked regret.

What are your rethought reads atm? Why aren't you voting Arthur?

[chazary]

I had a vote on him before and it didn’t do much to get him to talk. I don’t want to vote for him now and join the wagon to which I assume will give him more reason to not come back and respond to the accusations. I’d rather lay off voting for him for now to get him back to being active, if that’s why he isn’t right now. And if he doesn’t return I don’t want the new person coming in with so much heat. I’ll still press about the alignment of that slot but I don’t want to vote for someone who might not even be here tomorrow.

[chazary]

I still have Arthur as scum. That’s the only one I’m almost 99% sure of.

Other possible scum: Penguin, Farren
Penguin more so. Farren is up here because of lingering suspicions I’ve had since D1 but I need to really analyze his D2 activity to get a full read.

Leaning town: Phoenix, Mitillos, Aloratom

[Ph0enix]

I had a vote on him before and it didn’t do much to get him to talk. I don’t want to vote for him now and join the wagon to which I assume will give him more reason to not come back and respond to the accusations. I’d rather lay off voting for him for now to get him back to being active, if that’s why he isn’t right now.

I think we're past the point of him being active, tbh.

And if he doesn’t return I don’t want the new person coming in with so much heat. I’ll still press about the alignment of that slot but I don’t want to vote for someone who might not even be here tomorrow.

If you're sure he's scum, why not?

[Aloratom]

Why would Arthur flounce if he's scum? If he thinks he's past the point of no return, why not just play it out?

[Ph0enix]

Why would Arthur flounce if he's scum? If he thinks he's past the point of no return, why not just play it out?

I think there's a better chance for him to flounce if he's scum, to be honest. As a Town he could still give his final thoughts or something before he gets lynched, they could be of use to other Town players, another point of view is never something bad as far as information goes. But if he's scum... yeah, there's not much left for him to do at this point.

Also, you never said why you suspect me (referring to 542)

[Aloratom]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

[Ph0enix]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

[Aloratom]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

Sloppy review. I'm null on you.

[Farren]

Doesn't he? I got quite a "I don't care anymore, do whatever you want" kind of vibe from his post 538. He looks like he's given up on the game, imo.

At this point, Town Arthur does not vote because his votes (or lack thereof) up until now have come back to bite him.

Scum Arthur, though, does not vote for the same reason, so...

I mean, I don't know, the fact that the only thing he's done recently is defend himself instead of questioning others or rereading or trying to find more information in any way whatsoever, makes me think he's scum rather than Town. If I'm Town and someone suspects me, I'll continue to question others and scumhunt, because Town does not win by staying silent. Scum, on the other hand, could be a bit more quiet and get away with it. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think the whole "Do whatever you want, I can't change your opinion at this point" is a simple bluff which we should not fall for.

Nothing I say can change your opinion. Nothing you can say can change your opinion. Stop wasting my time as well, unless you have something new to say.

This doesn't sound despondent to me.

The absence does - but Christmas could play a role in that to some extent.

Right now, I think we need some sort of catalyst here to shake things up. So I'll provide one.

VOTE: PenguinPower

There are less than two days to go before deadline. I expect this will lead to some changes. Other people jumping on Penguin; someone putting Arthur to L-1; someone starting a wagon on me for having the temerity to vote elsewhere after scumreading Arthur / acting in a calculated fashion / being opportunistic / whatever.