Newbie 1973 | Mountain | Over

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.05

Mount Whitney, Sierra Nevada, California, USA

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Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

ArthurConyl

(2): Ph0enix, Mitillos

PenguinPower

(1): Farren

Not Voting

(4): chazary, ArthurConyl, Aloratom, PenguinPower

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-29 19:55:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Ph0enix]

@PP: I'm still waiting for that readslist you mentioned earlier.

[Ph0enix]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

Sloppy review. I'm null on you.

Given the fact that the others are pretty unanimous as to what my alignment is, what makes you put me in the "null" category, as you describe it? Not that it's a bad thing to not townread me, I just want to hear the reasoning behind it.

[Ph0enix]

@Arthur: If you're even still here, post your thoughts, you can't go wrong at this point, you may have something valid to say and we don't want the Enter situation repeated (even though there was a fair reason for us to vote him, as there is for you now as well).

[Aloratom]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

Sloppy review. I'm null on you.

Given the fact that the others are pretty unanimous as to what my alignment is, what makes you put me in the "null" category, as you describe it? Not that it's a bad thing to not townread me, I just want to hear the reasoning behind it.

Interesting phrasing. Why are you concerned that I''m not townreading you and not that I'm not scumreading you?

[Ph0enix]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

Sloppy review. I'm null on you.

Given the fact that the others are pretty unanimous as to what my alignment is, what makes you put me in the "null" category, as you describe it? Not that it's a bad thing to not townread me, I just want to hear the reasoning behind it.

Interesting phrasing. Why are you concerned that I''m not townreading you and not that I'm not scumreading you?

I just want a valid reason for either of those. Everything's fine as long as you have something to back up your statement with.

[Ph0enix]

If you are not sure what someone's alignment is usually you either don't have enough information in order to have a read on them (which, 24 pages in, seems unlikely), or you have some things that bug you about them and some things that you like about their activity at the same time. In your case I'll assume we are talking about the second option. So I would like to hear in more detail.

[Ph0enix]

^^ I am retracting that. I can't find a reason.

Then what made you say you think I'm suspicious in the first place?

Sloppy review. I'm null on you.

Given the fact that the others are pretty unanimous as to what my alignment is, what makes you put me in the "null" category, as you describe it? Not that it's a bad thing to not townread me, I just want to hear the reasoning behind it.

Interesting phrasing. Why are you concerned that I''m not townreading you and not that I'm not scumreading you?

I just reread it and realised why my phrasing concerns you. Most of the others thus far have townread me, that's why. Your opinion differs, that's my point, so I'm curious.

[PenguinPower]

@PP: I'm still waiting for that readslist you mentioned earlier.

And, I'm still waiting on acknowledgement from Alora which it was predicated on...but sure.

PenguinPower's Rainbow Reads

{Ph0enix}

{Mitillos}

{Farren, Aloratom}

{Plot (you're green in my heart)}

{}

{}

{chazary}

{ArthurConyl}

They're better with more people, tbh.

Spoiler: Short Summary

• Ph0enix
  : Strong mid-to-late D1. Has been transparent and actively sorting all of the players. Questions and probes, and follows up on them so it doesn't come across as busy work. Doesn't feel like he has an agenda with votes.
  Strong town.
  
  
  
• Mitillos
  : I'm ignoring Gyro's contribution to the slot, and trying to ignore playstyle differences. Arguments and points are reason-backed and explained. Unlike Ph0enix, some questions are asked and come across as busywork (though self-admittedly so). Died out mid-Day 1 a bit, but ended D1 strong against Enter which I think scum wouldn't do. Lackluster Day 2 which is simply an extension of his EOD1 (and quite possibly a victim of the gamestate), so I'll keep him
  Town
  for his D1.
  
  
• Aloratom
  : Non-existent slot on D1 for all intents and purposes; however, Alora has turned it on since entering (though would have to since it was obvious they were being lynchpooled for lack of activity). I liked the initial assessment on the players, and I received a little bit of an expounding on the latter list of players even though I wasn't acknowledged. Seems to be actively sorting. I don't like the dance around the Ph0enix slot as there is obviously enough to make a determination on there fmpov.
  Lean-town.
  
  
  
• Farren
  : Uses a lot of meta reads (see: me and Enter), which can be an excuse to read someone a certain way despite their play in the game differing due to gamestate reasons. Early D1 had ETL/Enter as town but didn't explain why, but as of 244 had Arthur and chazary as scum reads and was pushing there. I'm not sure he explained how chazary made it into his townreads based on "bikini post" explanation. I actually didn't like the dance between Enter and Arthur at the EOD given his comments on Enter. I think he's had a fairly good D2 considering the gamestate, and I see the pro-town benefit in his 574. I disagree with his assessment on Arthur, however.
  Lean-town
  .
  
  
• chazary
  : I don't actually see why chazary is townread at all. His tone pings me as fake (106 - though maybe forgive because lateRVS?; 521). Seems waffly when asked questions (174). Didn't vote scumreads (290), and found a way to get off ETL/Enter and stay off while placing intent when it was obvious Farren already had intent. Strongly suspects Arthur today but won't vote there, and all of a sudden I'm a scumread when I expressed one on him (Farren is too and I'm not sure why).
  Scum
  
  
  
• ArthurConyl
  : I'm actually not going to spend a lot of time on this as it would be rehashing an already stated case from Ph0enix. He doesn't take hard stances or make votes (which allows him to come back later like he did in 539) except he did vote chazary for a bit(210-288) until the end of the day when it was between him and Enter and he ends up on Enter (475) because sus but doesn't really say why for either. No hard stances today, and is the subject of much pressure. Retroactively tries to explain suspicions on Enter but doesn't really. Note that he forgot Farren in his reads and comes back with a town read in 511. Actually provides a reason for chazary scum (524) but doesn't push or follow it. 538 feels like fake outrage torward chazary. Routinely apologizes for "light posting."
  Scum

Pretty strongly of the opinion that it's Arthur and chazary, but I chastise people for making pre-flip associations, so I shouldn't either.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Arthur

That's L-1

[Farren]

And, I'm still waiting on acknowledgement from Alora which it was predicated on...but sure.

Alora's given opinions on everyone. Why does the acknowledgement itself matter?

[Aloratom]

Is that what it is?

Hi Penguin!

[PenguinPower]

And, I'm still waiting on acknowledgement from Alora which it was predicated on...but sure.

Alora's given opinions on everyone. Why does the acknowledgement itself matter?

1. Ego - I don't like to be ignored.
2. Stating a null opinion on someone with a reason of "sloppy review" is not actual support for a retraction and null opinion on someone.

p-edit

Thank you, I feel better

[Farren]

I'd say "sloppy review" does justify a retraction. Misread something, think X. Re-read something, understand what it really was, oops!, no longer think X.

Agreed that it's not support for a null opinion, though.

[PenguinPower]

I mean - that's why I said "and" and not "or." They were grouped together.

[Farren]

Looking at Penguin's reads ... yeah, okay, I can buy those. I don't see anything that doesn't mesh with reality.

Only thing I'm iffy on is that I don't buy a chazary / Arthur scum-team. Given the bit about pre-flip associatives, makes sense that it's not a factor in the reads - and I can buy the reads independently.

UNVOTE: PenguinPower

P-Edit: Regardless, we both agree there's something to pursue there. I believe Ph0enix already asked about it.

[Aloratom]

@ Ph0enix I think you're sorting just fine and actively hunting, but the early deal with Gyro seemed petty, voting him because he voted you first. (230) In that same post you advocate a strategy of voting random to make people talk, which may be a valid strategy but makes me a bit wary. Also, everyone's pretty much had you town read from D1 which may be simply smart play on your part. As new as I am to this game I'm just exercising a degree of caution.

To change subjects, you've been on the Arthur wagon for a spell now, and others seem to be with you, including me. I'm wondering who is afraid of a mislynch, as Farren suggested, and what the consequences of that would be D3.

[Farren]

Intent to hammer Arthur

- 15 hours from now, plus/minus 30 minutes.

No hammer if deadline is frozen pending replacement.

[Aloratom]

I'd say "sloppy review" does justify a retraction. Misread something, think X. Re-read something, understand what it really was, oops!, no longer think X.

Agreed that it's not support for a null opinion, though.

Doesn't that presuppose an entering player has a default read of town rather than null? Maybe it's a game play style thing. I don't like defaulting to town or to scum, so I settle on the neutral position.

[PenguinPower]

I think the point is that ph0enix has enough content to make a determination one way or the other, and settling on null is odd given said content.

[Farren]

Do you still think Ph0enix is null?

P-edit: to aloratom.

[Aloratom]

Yes, Ph0enix gets a null read. I want to see what happens N2.

[Ph0enix]

Some thoughts on PP's reads:

Interesting take on Mitillos. After rereading his posts, though, I have to agree with the lack of follow-up to some of his questions. When it comes to his light posting on D2, I also think it's due to the gamestate.

As for Chazary, I didn't have a problem with him on D1, apart from his early votes. On D2, however, given the fact that he put PP in the scumreads for no good reason and that he still hasn't voted for the one person he was sure is scum, I'm starting to suspect him.

@Aloratom: Let me rephrase what I said earlier: If someone gets a null read, there's two options for that to be the case:
1) There's not enough information for you to safely say that the given player is town or scum and you prefer to default players to null, rather than Town.
2) Some things about the given player make him/her suspicious in your eyes, while others make you think the player might be Town. Given those two, you find that the player currently stands somewhere in the middle - null read.

I refuse to believe there is a lack of sufficient information as of now, so option 1 is out.

We're left with option 2. So you have arguments for me being Town, as well as for me being scum. As of now you've provided the latter (though unfounded, imo, as you are concerned as to my votes during the RVS stage, which I don't believe to have been questionable). As for the former, yeah, I could count that, although it's a bit vague. I'll let it slide for now. Looking forward to seeing how/if your read changes.

[Mitillos]

Until now, I was ready to say "Arthur then Penguin might well be the solution". Now I'm no longer sure of this. Penguin's reads took a while to come and I didn't like the weird condition since it seems irrelevant to them, but now that they're here they look to me to be sincere and carefully done. I disagree with him on a few parts (e.g. scum could totally come out strong against Enter D1 if they gut-read him as a PR, Aloratom being null on Ph0enix is not the same as "there isn't enough to make a read" as it can also mean "some is good some is bad"), but I can at least understand his points and follow the reasoning.

I'm feeling better about Penguin, which is annoying because it means more work for me on D3, as I don't have a strong scumread on anyone other than Arthur, at this point.

As a side note, I'm really thankful that Ph0enix and Farren are in this game. They've been producing a lot of content, both by giving their own positions, as well as questioning other players a lot, which means I don't have to be as inquisitive as I used to be in past games. I offer this, along with the gamestate (and absence of Arthur during his time in the spotlight) as my excuses for being lackluster.

[Aloratom]

@Arthur:

If everyone else is towny, that leaves you as mafia, you know.

Penguin's case on Arthur is very compelling. I would also like Pine's reads at this time, before I start voting, though. In the meantime, I'm going to reread Arthur's ISO.

This is a good point. Arthur reads everyone as town. But then he votes Phoenix and still hasn't given an explanation. If he has one I want to hear it. I don't think he'll be back before the hammer though. Gone daddy gone.