White Flag - TM2020

[gobbledygook]

I guess I'm interested in why you didn't comment on anything from page 2 that wasn't a direct question toward you. Like, the amount of posts is clearly not being a barrier to you being able to analyze what was there. What was your mindset?

I glazed over spam posting from Formerfish

[Formerfish]

I guess I'm interested in why you didn't comment on anything from page 2 that wasn't a direct question toward you. Like, the amount of posts is clearly not being a barrier to you being able to analyze what was there. What was your mindset?

I glazed over spam posting from Formerfish

Spam posting on page 2 oh no! I'm so sorry turkey.

Oh shit. Wait. I have 16 posts, 17 after this one. I would say more than half of my posts are legit posts and very little is spam.

You have 42 posts and half of them are one line posts. Don't shade me with that weak ass shit when you are the blackest kettle around.

[gobbledygook]

where is all this aggression coming from? Can you and

Hopkirk

Elements take a breather?

[Formerfish]

I glazed over spam posting from Formerfish

Probably from where you keep complaining about being run up in games and you saying I was spamming the thread.

Spamming and posting a lot are not the same thing. Creature spams threads. RC spams threads. I post content. If you dont understand what im doing then you need to work on your reading comprehension.

[Dunnstral]

@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?

I was fine playing in anything except for the large theme and the open setup

I voted for wgeurts because I liked KittyMo’s entrance and wanted to build a wagon, and wagons good blah blah blah

I feel like my scum game is overrated

but that’s just me

It was more post #10 than her opening opening that I liked. Just a gut “hey that feels genuine” ping but gotta go off something.

I thought people might interpret that as me trying to pocket nsg or something but really I’m just a fanboy. Also don’t think that post realistically does anything to “gain favor” with a player of her caliber (oops I’m doing it again).

I have an early townread on this posting here, it feels genuine

I’m trying not to explode the game because I already have a lot of posts and a sizable portion of the game still hasn’t even checked in

Awkward post, I have a hard time believing this reasoning

Why was this something you felt the need to wait to reveal?

I didn’t actually :P But it is helpful to see what people pick and choose to respond to. Like do people ask legitimate questions are do they ask empty questions like Cephrir’s wood question

What empty question did he ask? It looks like you started pushing him because he started voting you.

I agree. Wasn't a fan of the overly casual tone Dann had in his first few posts.

Why? I was.

How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.

Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.

Do you think it is a bad idea to try and introduce discussion into the game?

Not a fan of this. The first part feels like the 'make up a technically flawless answer that perfectly explains why I asked a question when I absolutely wasn't thinking about that logic when I asked it' that I used to catch myself doing as scum a while back. It feels semi-over engineered/too prepared for someone asking.

Second point is oddly hostile. Not really a question since it's rhetorical and nobody is ever really going to say 'yes I wanted to stop us introducing discussion into the game.'

First point here, talking about the engineered response: I wouldn't have caught this on my own but I agree with it now that you've pointed it out. I don't have an opinion on the oddly hostile thing.

This post sounds like a robot wrote it.

It's because he said he wanted to 'explore'

VOTE: gobbledygook

There's motivation to ask it as both town and scum. I'm only interested in what you've learned from the rest of our responses.
I can see scum motivation in posting a question designed to appear towny while not having any real justification for it, maintaining secrecy when asked why you did, and giving a tame explanation much later.
What's your experience playing scum? Can you describe your scum playing style? More specifically - if you roll scum, would you allow being coached by your partners?

That is a fair assertion. I had two main reasons for asking the question. 1) I wanted to understand the types of players in this game. I wanted to see if it was going to be a lot of people with big personalities or people who thought highly of themselves a la RC/Mastina/Kuribo, etc. It appears that this playerlist is not like that at all, judging from the responses. Save for probably Dongempire. 2) I wanted it to get us out of RVS by giving us SOMETHING to talk about.

I have only played scum twice. Both in New York.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80850
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80463

I would say that as scum I generally do not care if I get lynched because I hate playing it so I do things that are probably suicidal from an outsider's perspective.
Yes, I would allow my teammates to coach me, but if I was scum I would have told them the same thing and probably to save their breath.

I looked at the games you linked, you replaced into both of those so you never had to deal with the early game as scum before

[Dunnstral]

:shrug:

I'd rather move on and talk about something else at this point

So I used a, single "particularly"

That is a ridiculous

VOTE: Cephrir

Well you brought something up Cephrir, it doesn't make sense to "move onto something else". I don't like that you attacked their post and while it's still hanging in the air try to end the discussion

Post 95 makes me a little less confident on Gobbledygook being scum

I'm just tired of being the day 1 lynch. It's been like 6 games now and its uber frustrating because I would say I am above 60% for catching scum but it doesn't matter people just do not understand me and kill me.

This post is weird when you posted this earlier:

That is a fair assertion. I had two main reasons for asking the question. 1) I wanted to understand the types of players in this game. I wanted to see if it was going to be a lot of people with big personalities or people who thought highly of themselves a la RC/Mastina/Kuribo, etc. It appears that this playerlist is not like that at all, judging from the responses. Save for probably Dongempire. 2) I wanted it to get us out of RVS by giving us SOMETHING to talk about.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=575

This game is exactly the type of day 1 that I feel like is happening here

I think you act quite a bit differently in that game than you are in this game, though.

And I'm saying this with minimum bias on my part, I'd like to think.

I don't particularly like the Cephrir vote on Dann

I did though, I think Dann wrote you off as town too fast and was kind of scummy in the posts right before the vote

[Dunnstral]

I feel those two games were outliers. More often than not—if you'll allow me to brag for a moment—I'm pretty good at obv-towning as town.

If the start of the masquerade game is indicative of your regular performance, you're pretty good at obv towning as scum, too

VOTE: auro

Do you have any experience playing with auro?

[T-Bone]

Vote Count

wguerts - 4

(Kittymo, Dannflor, northsidegal, Auro)

KittyMo - 2

(wgeurts, Hopkirk)

Dannflor - 1

(Formerfish)

Formerfish - 1

(Dongempire)

Hopkirk - 1

(gobbledygook)

Auro - 1

(Cephrir)

gobbledygook - 1

(Dunnstral)

Not Voting - 2

(Espeonage, Joan of Arc)

Activity Check - Start of Day

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-16 22:59:30)

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to Lynch

[Cephrir]

Do you have any experience playing with auro?

Nope

[Dunnstral]

Do you have any experience playing with auro?

Nope

I don't think the post above your vote was indicative of scum them, I think they tend to post like that regardless, in a way that I read as kind of scummy looking

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Dann

Anyone not voting here is scum or town that needs to die.

@MOD- You have me voting Dunn, not Dann. I get the mixx up, so i ain't mad atcha.

[gobbledygook]

Awkward post, I have a hard time believing this reasoning

Why?

What empty question did he ask? It looks like you started pushing him because he started voting you.

He asked me why I felt so wooden. I don't understand how I am supposed to respond to that, as either alignment. To me, it looked like a rhetorical question designed to shade me.

This post is weird when you posted this earlier:

What makes it weird?

I think you act quite a bit differently in that game than you are in this game, though.

What is different between that game and this game? My spat with Cephrir feels extremely similar to my spat with Chkflip, just with a lot less emotion.

Where is your avatar from Dunn? It is pretty

[Dunnstral]

Awkward post, I have a hard time believing this reasoning

Why?

I think it's more likely that you're making excuses rather than caring about thread health from post volume
This was in response to you being asked why you are made of wood - I don't think the response is true either, I don't think you look weird because you're "holding back" on posting

What empty question did he ask? It looks like you started pushing him because he started voting you.

He asked me why I felt so wooden. I don't understand how I am supposed to respond to that, as either alignment. To me, it looked like a rhetorical question designed to shade me.

But you did respond to it. You first said it was because nobody was posting, then said it was because you were trying not to explode the thread. I don't believe that it looked like a rhetorical question to you, because you answered it without questioning it at the time - why would you answer a rhetorical question? And then post 66 shows you acting oblivious.

There are many responses to the question he asked and a lot of them can be alignment indicative, while a few more can potentially explain that the way you were acting was not alignment indicative, or something.

It's not until post 76 that you bring it up again, after which Cephrir responds to you with his basis for the comment (this is him explaining why he felt you were wooden, not whether it was an empty question, which wasn't implied at this point)

Oh, and people who say they don't know how they'd respond to something as either alignment, or variations of that phrase, tend to be scum, in my opinion.

This post is weird when you posted this earlier:

What makes it weird?

First you posted the following:

1) I wanted to understand the types of players in this game. I wanted to see if it was going to be a lot of people with big personalities or people who thought highly of themselves a la RC/Mastina/Kuribo, etc. It appears that this playerlist is not like that at all, judging from the responses. Save for probably Dongempire.

I think that the above response implies a disdain for these types of players.
A short while later, replying to something else, you post the following:

I'm just tired of being the day 1 lynch. It's been like 6 games now and its uber frustrating because I would say I am above 60% for catching scum but it doesn't matter people just do not understand me and kill me.

Which is you thinking highly of yourself, which is a sort of lack of self awareness. And that's weird.

[Dunnstral]

I think you act quite a bit differently in that game than you are in this game, though.

What is different between that game and this game? My spat with Cephrir feels extremely similar to my spat with Chkflip, just with a lot less emotion.

Here is a sample of posts you made in that game:

So if the townie vengekills wrong today we lose. Huh

This was an incredibly risky vote to place down. Why did you feel comfortable putting someone at L-2 when scum could easily quick hammer?

Mind explaining why?

No. I think BBmolla’s reasoning for voting me is an overreaction to weird wordage personally. I don’t think it means I’m scummy for it. I’m mainly preoccupied that from any one townie’s perspective They have a 50\50 chance of catching a scum.

I will say that of the two votes on me I think Cheekys is the worse one.

And this is a sample of posts you've made in this game:

I’m trying not to explode the game because I already have a lot of posts and a sizable portion of the game still hasn’t even checked in

Where is this coming from?

I didn’t actually :P But it is helpful to see what people pick and choose to respond to. Like do people ask legitimate questions are do they ask empty questions like Cephrir’s wood question

So I used a, single "particularly"

That is a ridiculous

VOTE: Cephrir

I think it gave me readable content on you and Auro for sure, I just currently cannot understand what I am looking at when it comes to you both. I would probably say if you and auro are more likely town and Cephr is more likely scum even though I don't think he answered my question

I think you're a lot more to the point and down to business in the town game you linked. You had fluff posts, sure, but that's not the point. In this game you're making a lot of excuses and playing defense, while in the other game where people voted you gave reads. In this game it looks more like you're looking for an excuse to discredit someone who is voting you/voting them for something flimsy, which wasn't really what they were saying. And you also are playing the fence on Auro/Cephrir for some reason, which looks more like trying to look busy than genuine solving like in the other game.

Like do people ask legitimate questions are do they ask empty questions like Cephrir’s wood question

Ironically, this is an empty question, and how do you expect Cephrir to respond to that, etc.

[Dunnstral]

Where is your avatar from Dunn? It is pretty

It's a silhouette of Kaito from Danganronpa laid over an illustration of space

[gobbledygook]

Ironically, this is an empty question, and how do you expect Cephrir to respond to that, etc.

This is literally not a question that I posed to anyone in this game... It was me explaining my thought process to Dann. This feels like a misrep in the same way Cephrir's "big words" misrep

[gobbledygook]

will respond to walls tomorrow, sleep now

[Cephrir]

I'm not sure how calling words with a lot of letters "big" now qualifies as a misrep

[Dunnstral]

This is literally not a question that I posed to anyone in this game... It was me explaining my thought process to Dann.

Your un-posed question directly attacked Cephrir's reads, so it's expected that he'd reply to you. You're arguing semantics to try to be "right".

This feels like a misrep

It's not a misrep, you talking about posing the question to somebody wasn't what I was talking about

in the same way Cephrir's "big words" misrep

Him saying you use big words is his subjective opinion. How can you call it a "misrep"? He can think that and be wrong.

[Auro]

I must say I'm loving this game - less spam, a lot of walls, a slower pace

Yes, Gobble did replace into both of those scumgames perhaps, but the tone is still very different. Even with some amount of early game content Gobble's tone has remained the same; so I'm not interested in any attacks there. Minus points to Dunn for continuing to push there.

I'm liking Dann more now, specifically that he had TW giving him insights and the explanation didn't seem post-hoc-fabricated.

FormerFish isn't as impressive as his former games at all. He has a lot of posts, but not a lot of content, save a weakish push on KittyMo.

VOTE: auro

?

VOTE: FormerFish

[Dunnstral]

Wow, his tone is different when he replaces in at post 1727 and was a

traitor

instead of main faction scum, where he would have surely been playing differently because there are different things to consider, and it's also a game where he never got pushed and was instead nightkilled by his own scum faction. And you're comparing that to a 7 page game he started from the beginning where people came in and called him out on things. Wow, I can tell you put a lot of thought into this Auro, except you didn't, and I kind of would have expected you to have.

As for the other game, where he replaced in at post 1747, do you want to explain how his tone is "very different"?

[Auro]

Dunnstral, the difference in those conditions is irrelevant.

I admit I've just skimmed, but see for yourself - he's very directed in his posts in that game, and mildly aggressive. It feels like a stark contrast from this game, where there's clearly enough content to start making pushes but he's on the fence, with no aggression. It's reasonable to infer that he'd carry the same general mindset at game start, which would reflect as forced pushes.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, the difference in those conditions is irrelevant.

It really isn't. Can you prove he's playing differently because he's a different alignment, and not because he's at a different point in a game, with different conditions? Have you ever heard of a controlled variable? There are so many things that can be affecting his "tone" that it becomes meaningless to try to compare the two, or at the very least it should be taken with a heavy dose of skepticism.

I admit I've just skimmed, but see for yourself - he's very directed in his posts in that game, and mildly aggressive. It feels like a stark contrast from this game, where there's clearly enough content to start making pushes but he's on the fence, with no aggression. It's reasonable to infer that he'd carry the same general mindset at game start, which would reflect as forced pushes.

I think the difference between playing as traitor scum and main faction scum is big enough to explain such a difference. There are different mindsets that go into playing that role.

I don't see the same aggressive that I saw in the town game he linked. In the scum game he hops onto already existing wagons with very minimal explanation, and does not actively seek out answers on his own, and instead shades people - which looks like what he is doing in this game

He played more aggressively in his town game that he linked than in the scum games he linked, in my opinion.

His votes in this game look much more similar to his scum games votes. Context is different, because people pushed on him this game, though.

[Auro]

The biggest variable in tone is alignment, especially for someone who hasn't played many scumgames. I don't think the other variables matter much.

I haven't had a look at his towngame for comparison, I'll do that.

[Cephrir]

Minus points to Dunn for continuing to push there.

I don't really think this is reasonable. Why isn't dunnstral allowed to have a different read from yours? I'm sure it's not a sinister scum tactic to go look at these meta games and pretend to arrive at a different conclusion.