TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Volpe14]

Ah, I noped out of responsibility of this game so I'm just riding the waves right now rather than trying to hyper solve it

Then I dropped most of my reads or toned down on them and am just along for the ride mostly

[Volpe14]

I feel like if it's 4 man team and no third party, town probably lose this game more often than not

but hmm I'm ready to be surprised

[Almost50]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

Which reminds me: Where did he go? Did he post anything in the 30yish pages?? Remains to be seen

[EspressoPatronum]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

Which reminds me: Where did he go? Did he post anything in the 30yish pages?? Remains to be seen

Farkran has been quite active. He's got plenty of recent posts.

[Almost50]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

Farkran is hard town for us.

I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but WHY?

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: Espresso Patronum

Naked vote.

[...]
I still can't really feel Espresso's halo
[...]

Why?

[davesaz]

Wow, I would have thought Maria had played enough games with me to not be so completely wrong about what to expect.

[Farkran]

i overlooked that sentence you bolded, but now that i focused on it i don't find it inherently scummy. Why do you?

I feel like it completely negates his statement before so I'm just confused on why he made it because I feel like I must've read it wrong.

How does it negate his statement before? I read it as separating what could be a scumtell from one player and a towntell from other players. Different profiles can react diffently when put in a identical context. It's not a trait that i would townread daves for, but i wouldn't scumread him out of it either. It's reachy.

Scumreading daves for that means entering the world of deepwolves, so my first question is: do you know daves for being a proficient deepwolf?

I just, disagree. As someone who is known for having above avg scumplay I think the way we're looking for scum or maybe at scum is two different ways. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But, I feel like you're looking for basic things. You talk about how this takes 'effort' this is team mafia if there's ever a game people are gonna put the effort in it's this one. I'm trying to read actions and mindsets of players where I see you going on a more simple path. Not that this is wrong per se, but what I'm trying to say is I think I find stuff scummy you wouldn't. Because 'deep wolf' isn't a term I would use because it isn't relevant to the topic at hand. Effort doesn't=deep wolf in my eyes.

It's probably true that we have different scumhunting strategies, and that comes in a NAI fashion so far. I think you would agree though that there are multiple "degrees" of scum play, like you mentioned - perhaps you being a more experienced scum player makes you biased towards a deeper level than me, but i wouldn't call myself a surface reader. Given that i have been called out for it by 3 players now, i guess that statement could hold some truth, although i still don't see how and in particular i can't see how my analysis is more superficial than what chennis or gammagoey did, for instance. I mean, walls aren't inherently townier than short posts, nor is a wallcase particularly hard to fake - it's long and tedious, but not particularly hard. I find it harder to put up a fake town mindset in trying to sort people, rather than biasing yourself towards looking for potential mislynches. The latter is what i was seeing in chennis post, whereas daves' rang true.

Also for the sake of clarity, i use the term "deepwolf" quite literally, referring to a player who is able to put up a very towny facade while suppressing scum motivation, therefore placing his own truth in a "deeper" level. Players fitting this profile are more inclined to bus their partners and using logical thoughts to fuel their progression as opposed to build counterwagons to save their team. Not sure if that's the correct word to use, but that's not the point - i just can't find that scum motivation coming from daves posts.

Second question would be: why do you feel fine validating what is bad town play by the manual (the earlier chennis and gammagoey), but punishing what would be good town play (daves)?

I don't think this exists. But, can you quote what exactly you're talking about?

Stil referring to daves' questioning of volpe vs FL compared to chennis huge wallcase and gammagoeey agreeing with him - taking hard, serious stances like that is bad. Both slots have explained themselves later, so we can move on from that. I think i gathered everything i could from your daves read. Passing the ball to other people, might get back to you later when i am done sorting my current lynchpool

[Volpe14]

FL when you're back consider entertaining me with more reasons to scum read me

I had fun replying them with pikachu gifs

nomnom feel free to join the club back as well

[Volpe14]

@Davez I need to ask. That hood flavor post before, what were you trying to get at and do your own hood have someone sticking out for flavor reasons?

[davesaz]

I understand chenn’s Post and see why those things are interpreted that way but they are the type of things I’d townread that player for. So far anyway the game is young.

Might agree with scumreading others for that

.

What does this even mean?

This bolded sentence? You do poorly in English? It means that I strongly disagreed with that specific post from chenn because whatever chenn was scumreading someone for was something that I think that individual would do as town. Other people posting the same thing might be scummy. It's just as clear as what I wrote. Two people post the same thing, one person it would be scummy another person it wouldn't be.

[davesaz]

@Davez I need to ask. That hood flavor post before, what were you trying to get at and do your own hood have someone sticking out for flavor reasons?

I don't know yet whether it's relevant to anything or not. I don't know whether the designer would be careless enough for it to matter.
Second part is maybe. I too would need to google a bunch to find out.

[davesaz]

I feel like if it's 4 man team and no third party, town probably lose this game more often than not

but hmm I'm ready to be surprised

Was this in reply to something? Strictly by the numbers and using the sample PMs for clues, I'd expect 4 and a SK. My hood knows that I have this opinion.

[Almost50]

I'd like some pressure applied to DEB. That slot has no mention in anyone's readlist. Not ONE.

[davesaz]

I do agree that daves could produce more content though.

Got news for you, this is above average for a D1 from me. The timing is good in that holiday interrupts from family are almost gone and 90% of my coworkers took this as a vacation week.

Pedit: yes DEB has been noticed.

[Volpe14]

I've faith in the hoods to makes us come to day 2 with a fabulous "DEB has been killed tonight" written in the opening post.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've faith in the hoods to makes us come to day 2 with a fabulous "DEB has been killed tonight" written in the opening post.

This would be a great service to me.

[davesaz]

@FL why did you jump from FoS on chenn to a hard attack on someone who voted him?

This is a generic post. I don't see anything of value in it. Although I assume the 'value' you're talking about Fark is the timing.

Of course it's generic. Sometimes it helps to be subtle.
"Hey dude did you just chainsaw that guy?" isn't going to get the same kind of answer.

For someone who reacted really strongly to being voted by FL, I'm surprised that the primary reason for a townread would be someone who naked voted you. Maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's the type of thing that catches my eye. Have you played with Elements as both alignments?

We look at this and basically what Dave is doing is poking holes in their logic. It’s a valid question, but my main question is why does this come from town over scum?

Again, subtle is often better than a sledgehammer. If a random person you don't know naked votes you it will evoke a much different response from someone you know well. Maybe there is a perfectly good reason the reactions are different. Maybe there isn't a good reason and the target of the question is just scum who ignored someone who isn't a threat but went bananas when a real threat targeted them.

I get the starting from an assumption of scum method. I get the expecting people to be bulls in a china shop when they're town. That's not how you read me.

You also ignore me slapping FL in the face with a fish, or at least I think you did. No scum in their right mind does that, really. And no I'm not doing it for kicks and giggles. I suspect FL pretty strongly tbh.

That's enough of responding to people who mentioned me while I was on mobile. Time to eat salmon for dinner.

[Almost50]

I don't think you get what I say.
Implications aside, I confirmed my existence in the hood because it had to be confirmed to show that what you just did was something only scum would do.

and if there's scum in it, then it's gif*

Actually, I am with chenn on this one. If there's scum in Volp/FL/nom I'd say it's nom. If there's scum in GIF/Volpe/nom it'd still be nom. That is not saying I have a confident SR on nom, but I TR the other 3 more.

[Almost50]

Why is 606 even there????

[Volpe14]

I suspect FL pretty strongly tbh.

That is not saying I have a confident SR on nom, but I TR the other 3 more.

[Almost50]

I don't think you get what I say.
Implications aside, I confirmed my existence in the hood because it had to be confirmed to show that what you just did was something only scum would do.

You know what? By the end of page 36 U have Volpe and chenn added to the solid TRs list that I'd be willing to be the game on.

Reminder: That lost only had FL's name on it previously. Now it's of 3.

[Almost50]

OK.. this is weird!

[Volpe14]

A50 what's your history with reading Flavor.

How many times you've correctly or incorrectly read scum him? (I don't really care that much about how you read town flavor)

[chennisden]

My team's reads mixed with some observations from skimming:

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?
- Elements is on par with his town game
- Ank's scumread on me is low hanging fruit. Maybe Ank is doing a slayer's play? The full town reads list with only me as scum is weird.
- if Volpe!scum, FL shouldn't get a free pass

...why do even you think of yourself as easy lynchbait? Are you famous for always rolling scum or something? Because i really see no indication of you being a low hanging fruit or lynchbait so far

Also do you think that volpe and FL would put THAT much effort into distancing? I could see FL doing that, hardly volpe, based on the profile i've drawn of the two slots. I made peace with them never being in the same scumteam.

The thing is it's the

way

they interacted that makes it unlikely for FL to bus this way.