Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[teacher]

You did. And that ketchup was left out of the fridge too long but felt genuine. Both my recent games have had s v s theater early but this did not feel like those (which felt similar) so that’s good I suppose.

[teacher]

You do you. I was wrong and owned it. Dunno what else you want. It felt like more than it was.

i want to circle-back to how/why you were expecting me to be able to read you (i.e. on postcount) by that point

I’ll circle back with you. I feel like I’m being freer here (yea, as plum(?) notes one liners and jokes) than I am when I’m scum, where even if I’m forcing content I’m forcing it to be contentful. Like the last time we talked I think I was a pure sortable by post count player. I don’t think that’s true any more, since I became aware of it, but after my last roll and reread, I still think the weight is different. It’s something I had made a note of, and so figured it would be something your meta mind might note as well. (Of course, bow that I’ve indicated awareness, and yoda yada).

Bottom line, I think we’re just still stuck at you not really reading me. Independent of our interactions, I still don’t “like” you that much this game, but I need to reread the RC 1v1 again to check myself. One of my teammates feels you for town in a way I don’t yet.

[teacher]

i'm p sure it was a serious vote but it doesn't really make sense with his teacher read, i think

I thought it was serious too, but what does his read of me play into it. Like ya I was voting you, but I think his read of me was -?null- so why/how should the fact that someone who is rand! affect his scumread at all?

[MathBlade]

I am back in town from the bay and catching up now. Anything urgent I need to be aware of?

[teacher]

even saying that he feels more like ~washed-out~ than the last few times i've played with town!him

The snip above is about tw. He actually feels quite similar to me from the normal I played with you back in oct/nov, right before I took my break. What’s different for you?

[MathBlade]

i'm not townreading Mathblade btw, just so that's clear.

i just think that even if they're scum we can either make them bus or catch their buddies off of their interactions so there's not much to lose by treating them as town for now.

How’s this treating you?

I am very much interested to see how your reads go with the correct assumption I am town.

[MathBlade]

this is a surprisingly fun game. not sure why. it's kind of fun playing the slow game and not being immediately scumread for it? i'm kinda surprised no one's calling me scum?

on a scale of duckling to dragon, how sure are you about your mathblade meta read?

Interesting RC’s answer isn’t found.

He usually brags about how good he is. Why didn’t he here?

Typical RC brags. This is odd and I wanna bring it up with Titus later. (I have trouble reading RC so Titus helps me)

[MathBlade]

Trim talk about Plum town or scum and why?

eh, not much of a read yet. the skitter read might come from town.

Then who are you supposing I am scum with? Your vote is on me.

What are you doing to find my nonexistent buddies?

Gross. Why does Tris need to solve the rest of the game to pursue a scum read? Instead of, y'know, sorting that scumread.

That’s not what I am asking. Whenever you have a scumread they by definition have buddies. No matter how hard you scumread someone if they have no viable partners then something is wrong with how you’re reading the game.

I have no partners and with team mafia every player is being coached so reads by association becomes one of the better ways to get reads.

[MathBlade]

like i'm amazed that no one is scumreading me for just saying la dee da i don't know what mathblade's alignment is and i'm not trying to figure it out but that's kinda where i'm at, yeah.

It’s more like you read like you’ve had a bit too much fun drinking or eating something. You’re not yourself so I don’t know what to make of it. It makes you different but different isn’t always scum.

[MathBlade]

Math what are your full reads aorn. Independent of Titus because I feel there is a metagamey aspect there. I've already caught myself trying to give hesitant townreads for it.

I do reads by association and am mobile posting. Give me a sec to type out my thoughts in the next post.

[RadiantCowbells]

I care about how good people think my reads are solely in the context of if people think my reads are better they listen to me. It's utility.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Alive
the worst — shitty intro scum pool
Mathblade — the towniest town to ever town just bad at towning
RCEnigma — I like the fact you’re asking questions but I don’t know you enough to get a hard read. Townlean
tris — Intro horrible better posts later. Some associative tells make tris unlikely to be scum with a couple of people (will get my notes later). I also liked a lot of Tris’s later responses. Back to null.
Aristophanes Personally I liked his opener but after that his post felt buddy buddy. Titus pointed it out and I wasn’t quite sure then the thread with RC happened and I warmed up to the idea Titus had. I want to see Ari do a push and not be all buddy buddy. Scum pool
Iconeum Again shitty intro. Felt like he was sheeping and voting my scumread around the Ari wagon. Haven’t seen much to change that ick feeling. Scum pool
Plum — preplanned entrances always seem fake. I think that’s what I was picking up on earlier. They aren’t quite scum pool level but a scum lean.
Bellaphant — Interesting opening. I think it’s Townie and bad or scum and good. Commenting on “bad” plays is a scum tactic for brownie points. If Bella is scum it’s probably with Ari. However if she is town she posted a PBPA that didn’t really do much and if you really think something is bad you gotta provide an alternative. Gut says derp!Town but scum possibility there because if a slot is inactive why defend it?
Xtoxm —??? Are they a player? Would vig.
RadiantCowbells — I can’t read RC. I use Titus help. He pisses me off. I know this isn’t exactly as you asked but the more I think about RC’s playstyle I get angry. And I have to to read him.

Thilbert ??? Are they a player? Would Vig.
teacher — Townie vibes throughout. I like a lot of their interactions. They just “feel good”.
skitter30 — I go back and forth here. Sometimes in the start the interactions were odd. Especially around Plum and tris. I am having trouble figuring out if they are numbers or not. The only time I played iirc with Skitter we were scum so I don’t have a good basis. I am gonna guess town since he seems so different but it’s my first time trying to read them so...

Then there’s the interactions I need to catch up on still but I hope this helps.

[MathBlade]

Math/Skitter/Ari is the only scumteam that leaps out at me.

Hunt scummy players, not scummy teams.

That’s not how I operate. I used to do that then was even worse. I got told the tactic of look at the whole picture and who could be with who. If it comes to a compromise vote I would but I can’t just go “X is scummy” because almost anyone can be made scummy. It’s why I am good at scum. I take what is given and then give a person what they want. As town I care about what we need which is a scum lynch.

[MathBlade]

I care about how good people think my reads are solely in the context of if people think my reads are better they listen to me. It's utility.

Win rates and good reads aren’t what create victories. It’s teamwork. If you’re right but make me feel like shit that “good read” more than likely will be ignored. That’s how people work. So it’s why I want people to talk all theories even ones I know are false (Eg me being scum) because then more reads come off that.

[MathBlade]

eenie
meenie
miney
VOTE: rc

I hope Titus doesn’t kill me but I see a Xtoxm + RC world but it’s a remote one.

X could have been asked to vote RC if he was bored. It doesn’t seem random with the eeny meeny and it’s waaay too late for RVS

[MathBlade]

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

Hi plum. Why was Math calling out TW the post you needed to back off math and why didn't that turn into you pressing TW over it?

Follow-up question that might have been answered, why the Ari vote without interacting with him?

+1 I like the questions and this is the kind of hunting I like.
X does A. X should then do B. X didn’t do B why? Is there a relationship there that needs uncovering?

I need to relook at this later.

[MathBlade]

So Ico what's your take on me rn

UNVOTE:

This Unvote is ewww

Instead of answering they Unvote. No actual answer was given. Ico may scumread Plum may townread. People change votes for many reasons and plum doesn’t follow it up.

Likely one scum or more in Plum+Ico

[MathBlade]

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Why would you omit reads on some and share them on others? This seems odd like you’re holding back reads for a purpose. Just what is it exactly?

[MathBlade]

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Please can we not do this? It's cool if your partners are influencing your reads but x is reading x slot town/scum influences ALL of the games.

I don’t see how it would? I have no problem reading a game and making notes of a players alignment and separating two separate games. Reading games makes one better. I will honor your request I just don’t get it.

[MathBlade]

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

Hi plum. Why was Math calling out TW the post you needed to back off math and why didn't that turn into you pressing TW over it?

Follow-up question that might have been answered, why the Ari vote without interacting with him?

To me it was mostly that he denied and blocked a would-be Townread of himself quickly and confidently ... but that doesn't mean I strongly agree with his interpretation of the worst's actions. The interaction reflected much more strongly on MathBlade than the worst, to me.

Ari is someone I had discussed with my team, actually. I had initially felt comfortable about him but on reflection I think that's just playstyle and the only thing that really stood out was being cautious with tris' Townread of him, calling himself an "easy pocket" but having thought about it I didn't think it was, as the kids say now, outside his scumrange. On reread, I agreed with a teammate. Call it gut, on both our counts. But I'll try to say what pings the gut, I don't love the tris vote (based on how "ruffled" she seems by MathBlade, but dependent on her own assessment of herself as an "emotional player" or not?), and feel that the response to MathBlade getting worked up about tris quoting RC without additions (something very commonly done in different forms - quoting without comment, quoting with "this" or "+1" appended) being that doing so was "negative scum equity" for tris ... it's kind of extra? Especially if he Townreads MathBlade, as he states shortly after?

I have another scumread shared with a teammate in teacher, which I'm holding for the moment in case the lack of desktop access was changing stuff there.

Can you expand on teacher scumread? I am just not seeing it.

[MathBlade]

I don't think you should but take this into account. I'm going to use this example but in reality I'm remaining impartial. Example:

Ank is scumreading me here, I know my alignment and I also know that Ank does not know me well enough to have a solid read on me. Now I have to make an assessment on your alignment based on a read from a player that isn't in this game. Because Ank could be feeding you a trajectory to create mislynches.

When I would much rather know how you yourself are reading the game because you're the one playing and the slot that I have to sort here, not Ank.

Does that make sense?

(Oh no Math is garcia-ing)

No. Here’s why. Let’s assume Ank is feeding stuff for mislynches. Sure Ank isn’t a player but that shit clearly won’t be natural. The paraphrase rule helps with that. She can’t just say “say the word tomato and link X game” because that will look like her. That becomes clear evidence of coaching that can be looked at for why. Why does this push have to happen right now this way?

Having people admit they are coached gives more information not less.

[MathBlade]

gotta say I'm not scumreading RcE and I'm not super keen on that read.

Oh no! We agree!

(Joking tone) Someone call the presses! The world is ending!


Gonna pause a bit and let others respond.

[Plum]

So Ico what's your take on me rn

UNVOTE:

This Unvote is ewww

Instead of answering they Unvote. No actual answer was given. Ico may scumread Plum may townread. People change votes for many reasons and plum doesn’t follow it up.

Likely one scum or more in Plum+Ico

I have asked Ico twice to discuss his reasons for unvoting and specifically mentioned in my most recent post that him ignoring my first request is bad and feels like he's hoping the issue will just disappear if he ignores it

[MathBlade]

Sorry I must have missed it I am still not caught up yet. Friday nights and every other Saturday I have limited time in general so Mafia takes a back seat

[Plum]

I understand that stuff can happen incidentally (I'm V/LA Fridays and Saturdays so I get it and get how there's a long gap, page-wise, between my posts this weekend) but it's frustrating getting called out for supposedly not doing something I absolutely did do because I considered it relevant.