Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Menalque]

like honestly the way you/icon/amrun is acting is kiiiiind of worrying me tbh

amrun and icon are hard TRing each other

amrun has said she wants to Lynch you today but I don't think she's cased you and she hasn't really been pushing it

she's also said she's tin foiling me as scum

you're TRing me which is what I'd expect

but also pushing a gamma lynch really hard and kind of ignoring the other slots in the game

icon is entering with a strong "Mena/gamma + 1" scum team read, indicating he'd be fine with gamma too

so it just sort of feels like this could be 2 scum pushing on town while one is distancing from it in case it doesn't work out


***

that said

idk I'm still struggling to believe you can emulate your town play this well as scum but equally you have fooled me hard before as scum

but then again that was our first game together and I'\ve literally not been wrong on you since then

[Menalque]

remind me if you've been scum with icon before datisi?

[Datisi]

but also pushing a gamma lynch really hard and kind of ignoring the other slots in the game

the reason why i'm doing this rn bc as i said if we're planning on lynching Gamma somewhere down the road if he's Town we lose anyway so let's rip the bandaid off. and if he flips scum then scum needs to plan for 5p lylo, and it's better for them to do so with as little information as possible

and no, i haven't

[Menalque]

Mena you gave a list for D3?

If I didn’t already then it’s something like

dats - town
GL
alim
DW - townlean
Amrun
Icon
Gamma - scumlean
SS - scum

Can u just say if it’s u bc we’re gonna get you via PoE anyway once we’ve done SS and gamma

On phone hare to prop quote

He goes from scum reading gamma to town read based on an opening post to still wanting gamma to go first in mass claim

How

err because I'm not TRing gamma I'm just not lockscummed on him because it seems like there are a lot of people who are and that should also be worrying to you given that this is lylo??

and I want him to go first because as I said idk if I will have time to reread properly before I head back to France and so this is based on where my reads were at + on finding an order that is agreeable to, and gamma is scumread widely enough that in spite of my doubts I still think he should go first

[Menalque]

but also pushing a gamma lynch really hard and kind of ignoring the other slots in the game

the reason why i'm doing this rn bc as i said if we're planning on lynching Gamma somewhere down the road if he's Town we lose anyway so let's rip the bandaid off. and if he flips scum then scum needs to plan for 5p lylo, and it's better for them to do so with as little information as possible

and no, i haven't

well yeah but my point is I don't think the right approach is "oh we're definitely lynching gamma lets get it over with" I think it's "let's actually try to sort gamma here because IF he's town playing badly then it's gg if we Lynch him for that"

like I think town loses more often because of default lynching the scummiest looking player rather than looking for actual scum, and I think it's often justified with "if X is town/scum we deserve to lose"

[Menalque]

we still have what, like 6 days? I sure as shit don't wanna lynch gamma without him making more than about 5 posts today, and I also don't wanna Lynch him without discussing everyone else in the game too

[Datisi]

i'm not justifying with with "if Gamma is Town we deserve to lose"
I'm justifying it by "I really don't think town!Gamma is going to start acting so Towny to live to 3p and actially win there so if he is town we lose sooner or later so let's end it sooner"

do you have any experience with Gamma?

[Menalque]

A conf town today is stronger then maybe having one tomorrow because scum could nk him

Also more information today let's us have better odds

it doesn't
the point was
we can a) massclaim then prob lynch Gamma
b) skip massclaim and lynch Gamma immediately

and like sure in case a) there might be a 1v1 but we're probably likely to just lynch Gamma sometime down the road

basically we're probably lynching him *anyway* so let's not do a)

Is it this one? I don't read this as opposing mass claim

I don't disagree with the fact that gamma is being lynched anyway soon

But Id rather solve the next 2 lunches today

Mass claim is gonna make a pool to work with and gives scum less wiggle room if we lynch correctly


My thoughts

Conf town if any today is stronger then potentially no conf town tomorrow

Don't give scum a chance t kill there

And if scum kill the conf town overnight?

I actually do agree with all these points in favour of massclaim today

hmm

[Menalque]

i'm not justifying with with "if Gamma is Town we deserve to lose"
I'm justifying it by "I really don't think town!Gamma is going to start acting so Towny to live to 3p and actially win there so if he is town we lose sooner or later so let's end it sooner"

do you have any experience with Gamma?

yes, I played against him as scum in Pokemon ruby, he beat me as scum in pfup, and I think there's at least one other game that we've played in together as well as that

he's also modded a game where I was town

[Menalque]

like I'm not saying we don't Lynch gamma today dats

I'm saying we do due diligence on the other slots in the game as well instead of only talking about gamma for 7 days and then speedlynching him because we've failed to assess anyone else

[Menalque]

what's your current take on icon and amrun?

also on DW and alim?

[Menalque]

and icon, why is alim your top TR?

[Menalque]

Menal scum we lose?
Bullshit

No i think it's actually very very likely

Not because Mena is a god-tier scumlord but because of something else

Whats your read on me Icon?

rude

[Datisi]

like I'm not saying we don't Lynch gamma today dats

I'm saying we do due diligence on the other slots in the game as well instead of only talking about gamma for 7 days and then speedlynching him because we've failed to assess anyone else

and i'm saying if we're lynching gamma *anyway* then assessing other slots and giving scum information about who thinks what is literally helping them set up 5p?

[Menalque]

datisi why are you thinking one scum in (me, amrun)?

[Menalque]

like I'm not saying we don't Lynch gamma today dats

I'm saying we do due diligence on the other slots in the game as well instead of only talking about gamma for 7 days and then speedlynching him because we've failed to assess anyone else

and i'm saying if we're lynching gamma *anyway* then assessing other slots and giving scum information about who thinks what is literally helping them set up 5p?

yeah but what I'm saying is that I don't want to default lynch gamma here

I'm saying okay

we may VERY WELL end up lynching gamma anyway

but maybe we don't because we find a better option for today, but the only way we're gonna do that is if we actually use day to make the most of things

and yes, scum get more information about who thinks what, but scum have more information

anyway

so as much as there is some small upside for scum, increasing the information level in the game is singificantly more +town EV than it is +scum EV

[Datisi]

if you're both scum and you entered D1 bussing i'll eat my own hat

if you're both town that means that the team is either exactly Icon/DW/Gamma which i don't think makes sense to me? or I'm wrong on alimdia which again doesn't make sense to me

pedit:
aight
decide the massclaim order and get everyone to agree then

[Menalque]

Actually can you give me a tl;dr on town!Amrun

Scum would come into today leaving my slot open as potential mislynch

Not hard town reading

why not if they think they can get a pocket on you?

[Menalque]

why doesn't that team make sense to you?

[Datisi]

plus there was a post that made me think you're not both scum, the "mena can only be scum if gamma is" i think? which struck me as something partners don't say

pedit: idk, at the top of my head, both icon and DW were voting Gamma at some point yesterday and i haven't revisited that yet
and GL is dead who was TRing DW and i also wanna revisit that still

[Amrun]

Menalque, I object to you saying I’ve ignored other slots all game. That’s explicitly untrue.

It is true I haven’t “formally” cased Datisi but I have mentioned several distinct reasons I scumread her. I also really hate basically every single thing she has posted today.

I’m not hard pushing anything today yet because I’m waiting on massclaim. If we don’t get going on it we won’t have enough time to do it at all, because I would have preferred it be done today. That’s why I wanted popcorn. No, it may not be the objectively ideal way to claim, but it actually gets it fucking done. We are NO closing to achieving anything today than when we started, even determining a claim order and I’m starting to get really frustrated by it.

#2625 is disingenuous and I don’t like it.

If I claim first can we goddamn get something going?

[Amrun]

And also you haven’t pushed anything either today, Menalque?

Who is scum, Menalque? I really don’t know what you think except throwing vague, unsubstantiated shade at icon and me. You haven’t proposed that we are a scumteam, which seems to be the only thing that makes sense with your current stance. Is that what you think, Menalque? Who is third scum then? Why am I having to drag it out of you?

[Menalque]

I never said you ignored other slots all game?

Yes, I know you’ve mentioned that you think dats!scum but I can’t remember if you gave reasons for why or not

And either way it would be helpful for that to all be in one place to see your thought process on it

I would strongly prefer that gamma fullclaim first but I’m okay with you going second

How does this sound as a proposed compromise order? If we really can’t find consensus in the next rl day you go first and we’ll popcorn as much as I don’t like it

Gamma -> amrun -> DW-> datisi -> Icon -> me -> alim

[Datisi]

I'm good w that order btw.

[Menalque]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11486339]post 2646[/url], Amrun"]And also you haven’t pushed anything either today, Menalque?

Who is scum, Menalque? I really don’t know what you think except throwing vague, unsubstantiated shade at icon and me. You haven’t proposed that we are a scumteam, which seems to be the only thing that makes sense with your current stance. Is that what you think, Menalque? Who is third scum then? Why am I having to drag it out of you?[/quote]

The answer to your second question answers your first: I’m not sure where scum is and that’s why I’m not pushing anything yet

I don’t want to rush through lylo and there seems to be a lot of pressure to do that which is making me paranoid that game is nearly over

Yes, I do think you+gamma is plausible seeing as hard TRing each other given it’s gg today and defending each other is strongly in scum’s interests today

However, I also think you could be pocketing icon

But equally I haven’t interacted with DW or alim for ages and I would like to do that