TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 1.11
ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Kerset Klick (3): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Bitmap (1): mastina mastina (1): Jingle Jingle (1): Bitmap Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

[Jingle]

Mine are Mastina, Menalque, Ali, and Chemist

I'm vaguely tr-ing Mena.

[Alisae]

I think Klick is leaning town.

Same question goes out to you

Because Bitmap is Klick's scumbuddy.

Do you wanna join the wagon?

Am i not the one asked but is there some sort of backstory, which i am not aware of? Does Klick have some sort of specific meta, which apeared here? I don't get the idea behind this wagon.

Alisae! Ignoring me is illegal!!!!!

get used to it, while I do it a lot, this is unintentional. I’m not sure what it is you get and I’m holding myself back from pushing it more atm since I’m not ready to lynch.

[Jingle]

Ali, I'm not townreading you yet.

Do you feel like I should be?

[Chemist1422]

I posted my list of TRs earlier on

I'll reread and add to it in a little

[jjh927]

Ofrhz wagon still looks pretty good to me, especially considering Ofrhz's readslist

I don't think there's much progression from basically null on me and Jingle there

What? Why do I need to have a read on you and jingle specifically?

I know Jingle can play scum very well and project towniness, so I don’t scumread him despite his play coming across as surface level scummy. Looking at his ISO, I’m unable to really towncase him. I’m generally not interested in wagoning him day 1 though

Your vote on me is okay and I can see how it tracks with your progression in thread, but overall you’ve generally been underwhelming.

Wait was that tier was your null tier?

[jjh927]

Funny little vote triangle going on between Jingle, Mastina, and Bitmap there

[Alisae]

Nvm playing mafia ig I’m getting my glasses

[Alisae]

Ali, I'm not townreading you yet.

Do you feel like I should be?

I can address this real quickly
No I’m restraining myself atm.

[Alisae]

Oh wait I have 15mins hi

[ofrhz]

Wait was that tier was your null tier?

Yeah

[Alisae]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

jj's read list is really bad.

Scum is pushing Klick because they think he's a weak slot.

Who specifically is doing this?

I originally thought it could be Alisae but I'm unsure what I think of Alisae atm.

Aren’t there better weak slots imo

[mastina]

My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.

I have a need to remedy that.

And now onto RC's serious scumread.
VOTE: hito

hito is trying way too hard to be town and his tone sounds like scum trying to look town.

I asked him about Jingle but he told me he's too busy playing Fire Emblem.

This is projection--Bitmap is in these posts trying way too hard to be town, giving a tone sounding like scum trying to look town. Bitmap made many many posts that were meant to be busywork that looks good on a first glance that fall apart as not being actually sincere when looked at with greater scrutiny.

Spoiler: Examples: tryhard busywork

Why does he cross from just trying as town into trying to look town?

Apparently he thinks hito's tone is all wrong.

Eh i feel like if RC is in a datisi is scum mood he’s probably not gonna answer seriously

Does he have an opinion on me yet?

He only has one serious read and that's scum!hito who's apparently blatantly scum. Everything else is he doesn't care right now.

Correction: Not blatantly scum but reasonably confident. Now he's yelling me on discord for making him look bad.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

^This post Bitmap outright says that he's deliberately tryharding.

This read was made by the team as a collective. We think you have >rand chance of being scum based on your posts.

And yet, that strong confidence in hito being scum suddenly seems to vanish here:

Not really interested in hito right now.
UNVOTE:

No vote on someone else--no pressuring anywhere else. Just an unvote without any comment. That means that there wasn't any real interest in sorting hito. If there were an interest in actually sorting hito, someone who was allegedly a strong scumread, there would be some kind of followthrough to this:
An explanation of how "greater than random scum equity" changed to "not interested", or an application of interest somewhere else. SOMETHING more, but there was nothing.

Okay then, what do you not like about my posts? Other people have nebulously said they don't like that I stopped posting which is a tondemonai accusation I can't do anything with and strikes me as lazy, but if you have problems with the yasashi words I have gifted you all I can talk to you about that.

All of your posts are you playing defense and focusing on self-image rather than scum hunting. I kind of want you to play offense right now.
I'm a big weeb so I don't care about the yasashi words.

I'd know this quote all too well since it is one of my own; this is exactly what I say when I'm scum displaying false bravado.

Did anyone else find page 3-4 between Jingle and jj to be odd or just me?

This is a comment made to look good and look like it is engagement, which is actually just empty. Bitmap gave no further elaboration. No thoughts on what the alignments of the players in question are, no analysis, no specific posts, no questions for others to look at the interaction, no followthrough.

Just dropping the comment, and leaving it be, with no intent of revisiting it because it was looking good without actually accomplishing anything protown.

I kind of want to vote Jingle or jj. Jingle has been opportunity voting this whole entire game and pages 3-4 make me think it's TvS or SvS. I'm starting to agree with you on the whole Shadoweh read but I'd like some thoughts on Jingle and jj.

Note that Bitmap's vote at this point is still on Shadoweh--Bitmap doesn't move it to actually follow through on the stated Jingle suspicion.

Furthermore, the comment about Jingle's vote being opportunistic is a little bit hypocritical given...

Votecount 1.04
Shadoweh (4): Kerset, Klick, Bitmap, Jingle With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

...That Bitmap was third on the Shadoweh wagon, itself an opportunistic hop-on.

Actually, I'm going to cut to the chase.

Alisae, are you scum using your scum meta like you did in Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy to stomp down your scum buddy Klick so you can get a free pass this game?

This thought is meant to look productive but if this were an actual accusation meant to lead to productive sorting/scumhunting it would be phrased as an actual accusation and probably be accompanied by a vote.

AlsoVOTE: Bitmap.
This is rc coaching a scumbuddy on how to play scum.

Why do you think he'd be coaching me when RC didn't coach his scum teammates in last TM?

For a start, the only game where RC's team had scum other than the game RC was in was Firebringer's game--where RC did give Firebringer feedback. (I realize it's a bit long and 'rc' gives some false positives and there's other names e.g. Cowbells, Radiant, etc. to search for but the comments are there if you want them.)

Coaching was a bit tongue-in-cheek terminology on my point; RC had an investment in Firebringer's game and I was mostly saying that RC had an investment in this game, and that the slot was scum (the two were not directly correlated, i.e., I was not saying "RC is invested in this game because it is a scum slot", so much as I was saying, "The way RC is handling this looks like the way RC would help a scum teammate").

But this was the start of Bitmap's defensiveness.

mastina, trying to lynch my hydra out of the game on D1 is very pro-scum.

Defensiveness against my attack when I was the only one pushing Bitmap harder.

also ig mastina is just town for voting bitmap and saying RC is coaching him?

See that's what I thought too. I just think mastina is playing really bad based on what I saw in Undertale Mafia personally but she's being pro-scum right now.

This was the start of Bitmap's discrediting of me.

Every paragraph of 197 is discrediting of me. To wit,

mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.

This is a discredit of me, telling me that my content was a joke.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.

This is a discredit of me, saying that I was not doing anything pro-town. For context, Bitmap is referencing a post

I was asked to make

. Jingle

asked

me to deliver the list that I made pregame about the players in the game. I delivered

on his request

what he asked me to give, a basic breakdown of how likely I viewed each player's chances at eating a nightkill and why.

Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

This is a discredit of me, saying my content was doing nothing but ego-stroking.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

This is a discredit of me, saying that the list which I was specifically asked by Jingle to provide, was my sole contribution to the game, when I was doing plenty more aside from that.

mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.

Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

don't get into this fight with mastina
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty

only if mastina doesn't reach endgame

This is a discredit of me, saying that "mastina is so detrimental to the game that she should be dead before the endgame".

I don't need to confer with my team to know that we'll be extremely unhappy if mastina reaches endgame.

This is a further of the discrediting of me--it would be one thing if Bitmap were taking this stance with the belief that I was scum; that'd make sense. You don't want scum to reach endgame when you are town, that goes without saying. But Bitmap didn't hold that stance; this was a statement meant to dismiss my contributions to the game as worse-than-worthless.

ur too shit at the game that even Shadoweh's team thinks you're a liability to town

This is a discredit of me, saying my contributions to the game are worthless.

respect for RC's competency

This is where everyone in the thread laughs because they know I'm a big RC fanboi if he's town or on my team. In my last scum game, I did everything to discredit RC and un-legitimize his reads. Try again.

I was not saying Bitmap's respect for RC contributed to my scumread of the slot; I was saying my respect for RC contributed to the scumread of the slot. So this was a misrep of my point.

and vague but most definitely unreliable memory of meta (this not being how I remember Bitmap being as town/feeling like what I remember as being closer to Bitmaps scumgame but as I said, this is weakest for damn good reason).

Nice lie. This is the first mafia game I've ever played with you.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... r_id=28641
2078 was anyone can post so I went in there memeing.

This was attacking the weakest point in my argument rather than addressing the stronger points.
I made it explicitly clear:
-The meta was my weakest point
-It was off of vague memory
-It was from a long time ago
-It was unreliable

I said it myself, it was the point most likely to be wrong of those listed. But I listed more than that. The points that Bitmap chose not to try to address because they're much harder to discredit:

BTW to give a brief rundown of the scumread on Bitmap, from strongest reason to weakest:
Blatant projection (guilty of the very thing Bitmap was accusing hito of to a degree far, far more blatant and worse than any of hito's), gut from the chosen approach to the game, where Bitmap is focusing, respect for RC's competency, and vague but most definitely unreliable memory of meta (this not being how I remember Bitmap being as town/feeling like what I remember as being closer to Bitmaps scumgame but as I said, this is weakest for damn good reason).

Strongest reason to weakest reason.
Bitmap misrepped the second-weakest point and chose to address the weakest point.
Ignoring the blatant projection, the approach to the game, and where he was focusing.

I find it extremely funny that mastina said that Klick is the weakest out of his team but still doing a better job than mastina.

This was a discredit of me.

@mastina:

Message from RC:

He wants you to shut up about him or else he's going to proxy play this game.

This was a discredit of me, as it was implying I was talking exclusively about RC. I did talk about RC when RC was the subject in question, but I did not go out of my way to talk about RC--quite the opposite, I was very specific in mentioning Bitmap over RC.

@mastina:

Message from RC:

He wants you to shut up about him or else he's going to proxy play this game.

@everyone:

If you don't want RC to proxy play this game, RC said please make mastina stfu.

This was a discredit of me, saying I needed to be quiet.
I was not walling.
At the time I was in the bottom-half of players post-wise.
I was not spamming; I was not excessively fluffposting.
There was nothing in my content that warranted shutting up about because I was contributing to the game and Bitmap was implying I wasn't and insisting I wasn't to the point where he actively tried to bully people into getting me to talk less.

foeing people doesn’t work in mafia

fuck

I have a script for u if u want it

Can I get it so I can use it on mastina?

This is a discredit of me, saying my content is not worth reading.

I've literally played only 2 scum games since my site hiatus.

I'm going to have to ask you to clarify which one it is because otherwise you're probably full of shit right now.

Ok thanks mastina

definitely

being a town asset using 7 year old games.

This is discrediting of me because it is pretending that I did not already acknowledge that the meta point was weak, pretending it was in any way stronger than it actually was. I SAID from the getgo that it was my weakest point and probably unreliable, specifically

because

it was old meta from vague memory. (I was phoneposting, no fucking shit I wasn't going to be searching through Bitmap's previous games to confirm.)

Oh no, I definitely get that you think mastina is bad. I just also see what looks like you thinking mastina is bad town. Not scum, bad town.

Her play seems eerily similar to another game.

This was a discredit of me, intended to be saying "mastina this game is sucking as much as she did in another game". (Mind you, I heavily debate that given I am in no way shape or form ashamed of my play in that game. It was admittedly not a stellar performance from me and I had much better games in 2019 but it was far from a bad performance and I did exactly what I needed to for my team to win. But at a surface glance, the implication of Bitmap's point was apparent enough, trying to compare my play this game to a 'bad' game of mine.)

I don't get your cop comment. But I think her push on me was pretty much the the same when I was on the Nymph account and sort of just tunneled it for being "textbook surface level" scummy but not actually scum. I understand that from most people that my town play has been very "textbook surface level" scummy. If you saw how she interacted with my slot in Undertale, that's what I'm referencing.

This is overly defensive of Bitmap and discrediting of my points against Bitmap as being "Bitmap is being textbook scum"--when to the contrary, Bitmap's play this game has been anything but textbook scumplay and that's part of the reason why I am so sure it IS scumplay. None of my points have been about textbook scumplay.

However, the more important part of the post is this:

Also from me, since Jingle made watashi realize that your intentions are very unclear about this, do you think mastina is town or scum here? The Subarashī Watashi me had been ignoring it because I think mastina is jakkan obsessed with catching scum you more then actually seeing scum you, but I'd thought you thought mastina was a scumbutt from comments earlier about not wanting her to get to endgame?

Because according to my team, being extremely scummy and pro-scum is a common thing with mastina. This is my first actual game with mastina so I asked my team for help sorting her.

I mean, your team even agreed to have her quarantined and I assume it's because of her generally negative play.

Aside from this being further discrediting of me by saying my play has been negative,

Why did Bitmap go out of his way to ask his team about me?

Why was I such an important sort, that Bitmap went out of his way to get the opinions of his teammates? nsg's opinion of me is probably the highest of his three teammates with GIF's being neutral-negative and RC's being negative, so that they have a negative viewpoint of me is something that I do believe...but why was it important to get feedback on me?

It's showing an overly strong focus on my push on the slot.

Just because you're playing the best of a sub-optimal strategy, doesn't mean it's the best strategy.

This is a discredit of my content.

I don’t understand why I’m seeing the forum saying to shut the fuck up furry lately.

This is a discredit of my posts, saying that they are not worth reading.

More than that.

You want the ultimate proof Bitmap was discrediting me?
Look no further than

Bitmap's written confession he was doing exactly that

:

How does that differ with how I've been treating mastina yet you have me as a town read?

What was this in reference to?

In fact, I feel like thats the sort of pressure thats applied by scum with the mindset of "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible."

Alisae said that Klick's posts towards me were, "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible".
Bitmap said that he did

precisely this thing

in regards to me.

Bitmap, himself, admitted that he was discrediting me.

Okay then, what do you not like about my posts? Other people have nebulously said they don't like that I stopped posting which is a tondemonai accusation I can't do anything with and strikes me as lazy, but if you have problems with the yasashi words I have gifted you all I can talk to you about that.

All of your posts are you playing defense and focusing on self-image rather than scum hunting. I kind of want you to play offense right now.
I'm a big weeb so I don't care about the yasashi words.

This is also odd; Bitmap stated he wanted to play on the offense...but he had a very strong focus on defense as noted above.

[Jingle]

I read the first little bit, and I have a question.

Why is RC paying attention to this game?

[Alisae]

Who do you think would actually scared of RC having a proxy presence in this game when he's not even the best player in your team, nor is he in the game, nor would he be the best town player in the game if he were.

Every game I've played with him, scum pt talks way too much about how to deal with him. Town talks way too much about him. Every game he's remotely connected to, he's just talked about so much.

Also, you realize he has a good chance of winning Paragon this year and has a multitude of nths on his nom?

he does? Where

[Alisae]

My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.

Why

[mastina]

At least one of the people saying I'm not towny enough to be scum is probably scum.

Okay since you're pretty much aware of it I'll just out the reason for it now anyway.

Remember that stupid reason for townreading you I had?

It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.

More or less my thought there was that you were deliberately acting scummy and that there were two explanations for it.
Either you were making a 5head 4d chessplay of being scum that was blatantly obviously opportunistic scum, in order to make people

think

that you're town making a strategic maneuver of scumminess...

...Or that you were just making an actual town strategic maneuver of scumminess.

Which I know.
Is a stupid-ass reason for townreading you.
I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. It just kinda...happened.

[mastina]

I had forgotten about the klick townread

I hadn't.
I originally thought, scum defending scumbuddy.
jjh convinced me of the far more likely alternative; scum white knighting a likely mislynch for the free towncred associated with that stance.

[Alisae]

Ok I still scumread mastina because she’s townreading me and I don’t particularly like any of her scumreads but I need to talk to my team about things

ama before I go get glasses

[Bitmap]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

jj's read list is really bad.

Scum is pushing Klick because they think he's a weak slot.

Who specifically is doing this?

I originally thought it could be Alisae but I'm unsure what I think of Alisae atm.

Aren’t there better weak slots imo

I was thinking it's due to the whole starting post where mastina just started shitting on random people when she made that first post.

[Alisae]

And I’m leaving now nice ama lol xd

[jjh927]

Yeah I'll defo VOTE: Bitmap after that writeup

But in the true spirit of team mafia I'm gonna be a cocky shit and say it's because my scumreads are all correct and it doesn't matter what order we lynch them in

[Bitmap]

Who do you think would actually scared of RC having a proxy presence in this game when he's not even the best player in your team, nor is he in the game, nor would he be the best town player in the game if he were.

Every game I've played with him, scum pt talks way too much about how to deal with him. Town talks way too much about him. Every game he's remotely connected to, he's just talked about so much.

Also, you realize he has a good chance of winning Paragon this year and has a multitude of nths on his nom?

he does? Where

I nommed.

the worst, skitter, Oversoul, Dannflor, Nancy all nth the nom.

[Jingle]

tl;dr on the case in rough order of strength:

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory

Am I wrong in my summation?

[Jingle]

I nommed.

No nomming RC. He's a bully.

Not even one of the cool bullies from the lava world. He's one of those ice cold bullies who doesn't return your love from the snowman world.

That's right, RC, IRL, is this guy: