TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 1.12
Klick (3): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi ofrhz (2): Chemist1422, Kerset Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz mastina (1): Jingle Jingle (1): Bitmap Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

[Jingle]

Damn, that could have been a pagetop.

[Kerset]

Most of 612 could be described as: mastina shaded bitmap, bitmap disagreed with that, mastina feels that her reads are discredited
Bitmap was replying to shade that he received. Mastina you said by yourself that bitmap was in defense there. What did you expect to see from him? Did you really hope that he won't debunk your theories?

[Shadoweh]

If I was Bitmap I'd be demoralized reading this too, with half the players asking for RC's opinions/mentioning RC and the other half asking Bitmap why they think RC's name being involved is a big deal, lol. (ﾉΦωΦ)ﾉ

[Jingle]

If I was Bitmap I'd be demoralized reading this too, with half the players asking for RC's opinions/mentioning RC and the other half asking Bitmap why they think RC's name being involved is a big deal, lol. (ﾉΦωΦ)ﾉ

I'm not saying I did this on purpose. But actually I am saying that. 100%.

[Shadoweh]

I've probably changed my mind about Kerset. Hito's still scum though? Why aren't more people voting him???

[Bitmap]

I'm partially to blame due to my avatar but cmon, my avatar is cute. The jester hat fits my personality so well.

[Jingle]

It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.

Hey mastina, what's my opinion on D1 wagons on me?

[Chemist1422]

I nommed.

No nomming RC. He's a bully.

Not even one of the cool bullies from the lava world. He's one of those ice cold bullies who doesn't return your love from the snowman world.

That's right, RC, IRL, is this guy:

“The chill bully is just like the bully but he’ll go easy on you if he can tell you’re having a rough day”
-bdg, paraphrased

[Chemist1422]

I've probably changed my mind about Kerset. Hito's still scum though? Why aren't more people voting him???

because I don’t think you ever explained that

[jjh927]

jj's read list is really bad.

Scum is pushing Klick because they think he's a weak slot.

This is the post which I feel confirms my scumreads are accurate tbh

Fwiw, I wouldn't really say my "readslist" was a readslist. It was

Ofrhz, bitmap, gamma

as scum

and a response to Chemist of

Hito would be the only scum on the Klick wagon if there was any

Ali, menalque, mastina are all town

I don't think I've really seen much from Bitmap besides arguing with Mastina, talking about RC, townreading Klick and scumreading Jingle, but I'd be interested to see if someone can prove me wrong. What particularly prompts calling my reads "really bad" out of this, besides necessity?

The follow-up post,

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

is what I would call a textbook flail. I don't see anyone pushing Bitmap at that moment other than me. In two consecutive posts, scum is simultaneously pushing Klick and pushing Bitmap.

Of course, I didn't get an answer to

Also who was pushing you that caused you to make that post

which I only really asked because I wanted to be sure Bitmap wasn't feeling any pressure from anywhere else at the time

[mastina]

I was thinking it's due to the whole starting post where mastina just started shitting on random people when she made that first post.

I did not shit on people.
I was asked by Jingle to give my pregame assessments.
I told him I didn't make them, exactly, because I didn't have the time--however, I did do something vaguely similar in the PT, which I shared: more or less, a tier of "these players are likely to draw nightkills, these players could possibly draw nightkills, these players are not likely to draw nightkills", and these assessments were factoring in both the players in this game overall, and the team the players belong to.

And be honest.
Is there any assessment in that post you'd disagree with?

Spoiler: The post in question

Flavor Leaf

Jingle

RCEngima Something_Smart
^This is singlehandedly the best team in the game bar none and Jingle in particular is a godsend. Flavor Leaf doesn't really contribute anything to this game to be honest, but 3/4 top-tier players is still more than enough. They are probably going to eat the nightkill as a consequence. Like, solidly 80+% N1 nightkill, but even if not a very likely N2+ nightkill.

Jingle is one of the best players in this game--period, end of discussion. RCEnigma is an insanely good player and Something_Smart is a good player. Flavor Leaf doesn't contribute anything useful to this game because of his playstyle not being one which can lend useful strategies to this game. (This says nothing about FL's skills; it is a comment on FL's skills relevant to this game played by Jingle.)

They are hands-down an incredibly-likely nightkill as a consequence.

post 191, mastina"]davesaz Formerfish Elsa Jay

Gamma Emerald

^Honestly none of these players strike me as particularly nightkillable.[/quote] Gamma Emerald almost never eats the mafia nightkill. Elsa Jay doesn't, either. It's incredibly rare for davesaz to eat a nightkill, too. The closest this team has to a nightkillable player is Formerfish, who can and has eaten scum nightkills before...
...But Formerfish is not the player in this game, Gamma Emerald is. And Formerfish being Gamma Emerald's teammate doesn't seem like enough justification for Gamma to ever eat a nightkill. This isn't an insult to the team; it is a simple statement of probability.

post 191, mastina"]popsofctown wgeurts

Alisae

chennisden
^Everyone on this team is incredibly nightkillable. Honestly the main reason why they wouldn't be nightkilled is just because there are higher priority nightkills + Alisae's natural toxicity could make the scumteam decide to leave em alive. But the natural skill of pops et all might be enough to counterbalance that.[/quote] I feel like this analysis is dead-on; everyone on the team including Alisae is incredibly nightkillable, so they as a team are a huge threat. You can argue some are more nightkillable than others but none of them are low-priority kills. The only reason scum wouldn't want to kill Alisae is in spite of Alisae's talent as a scumhunter, eir notable toxicity is a factor that follows em around in almost every single game they've played...and yet, that single reason of keeping Ali alive, of Ali being toxic...is probably not enough for the scumteam to actually keep the slot alive so the slot is likely a nightkill anyway.

That is a compliment, not a detriment.

post 191, mastina"]Vex Vience okapoka

chemist1422

tris
^Nobody in this team strikes me as particularly nightkillable.[/quote] The most nightkillable players on this team are Chemist and tris, and neither of them eat nightkills often. This is not meant as an insult; it is a statement based around observation of their game histories. None of them are nightkilled very often, to my knowledge, so why would their team be killed via Chemist?

post 191, mastina"]MariaR Krazy

Shadoweh

Dunnstral
^Everyone on this team is amazing so they are a very high priority nightkill, the only reason they wouldn't die is if someone who is an even HIGHER priority nightkill died first.[/quote] This is a compliment to everyone on this team as it is a team of incredibly skilled players.

post 191, mastina"]

hitogoroshi

Gammagooey KittyMo Plum
^If Jingle's team isn't the best, it would be purely because hito's team would be. They are legends, oldguard but incredibly good at the game. The one and only reason they wouldn't die is if the scumteam were made of newbs who weren't familiar with them.[/quote] ^This is a statement of hito's team being elite, which is the highest compliment I can give.

post 191, mastina"]Cephrir

Klick

DeasVail Bellaphant
^Klick is honestly a bit of a weak link on the team which

probably

keeps him alive, but there's a chance he dies due to the sheer skill of the team overall.[/quote] This was not calling Klick a shit player. This was saying that of the members on Klick's team, Klick was one of the weaker ones. This is because both Cephrir and DeasVail are legends at the game and Bellaphant is insanely good; Klick is a veteran player but never has had the renown, the fame, the success, attributed to Cephrir and DeasVail who have both won scummies before from their contributions.

It is no insult to be called the weak link on a team, when your team has incredibly strong players on it. For instance, there was no need to have me give my thoughts on myself, but I am unquestionably the weak link on my team with no doubts to be had. That's not an insult towards me; it's a compliment to Pine, Xtoxm, and kuribo.

post 191, mastina"]RadiantCowbells northsidegal GuyInFreezer

Bitmap

^Similar to the Klick team, solid overall but Bitmap is hands-down the weak link. Probably going to live but chance to die to remove the likes of RC/nsg.[/quote] As per above: calling someone the weak link on their team is not calling them shit; calling someone the weak link on their team when their team contains

two Paragon-level scumhunters

and GIF who is a legend, is a statement specifically to the strength of the team and a compliment to how strong the team is.

Bitmap is the weakest player on the team is a statement I feel is objective truth. That doesn't make Bitmap a

weak

player.

post 191, mastina"]Volpe14

Ofrhz

Pisskop teacher
^Why would anyone from this team be nightkilled? Nobody on it is worth it.[/quote] The name on this list most likely to draw a nightkill is pisskop, but even that's not a surefire thing. And pisskop is not the player in this game--pisskop proxying via ofhrz doesn't strike me as something the scum in this game would fear enough to remove ofhrz, ofhrz doesn't strike me as the type to get nightkilled often, and so on and so forth.

This is not calling the team bad.

It is calling them just-not-getting-nightkilled. Saying a team won't get nightkilled doesn't mean they're shit, it just means that they aren't appealing to the scum for nightkilling. And while being appealing to the scum to nightkill is a compliment, a lack of that is not an insult, it's just a lack of a compliment.

post 191, mastina"]gobbledygook

Menalque

bob3141 EspressoPatronum
^Menalque is the best player from this team hands-down. There's a small risk that he dies, but my money's on him living simply due to other players presenting a larger, more credible threat.[/quote] Menalque is a Rising Star nomination, largely from his townplay. The turkey, bob, and EspressoPatronum are not. To say Menalque is the best player from the team seems pretty indisputable. That doesn't insult the abilities of the turkey, bob, or Espresso; it simply compliments the abilities of Mena.

post 191, mastina"]skitter30 mathdino Almost50

jjh927

^This is a God-tiered team and is going to eat a nightkill guaranteed.[/quote]I don't know how to say it any more simply than that. This is the ultimate compliment. If jjh is town this game, he will eat a nightkill because he is a top-tier threat, skitter his teammate is a Paragon nominee this year and she can proxy thoughts through her team incredibly well, Mathdino is a STAR at coordinating his teammates, and Almost50 is also really good at doing that. There's nothing insulting about that and this is the polar opposite of an insult.

post 191, mastina"]Farkran Dongempire

Kerset

NaCl
^Nobody on this team is worth removing from the game via nightkill.[/quote]The simple reason for nobody being worth removing is that with the possible exception of Dongempire, nobody on this team has made a name for themselves yet. I've never heard of Farkran, Kerset, or NaCI before and Dongempire to my knowledge does not have a remarkable history of eating scum nightkills. Even if he did, he's not the player in this game and he's not someone I have pegged as through a proxy being deadly enough to warrant his team's slot being removed.

That isn't an insult which shits on them; it is an assessment of, given the players and teams in this game, the sheer likelihood of them ever being killed, with the objective truth of it being unlikely at the hands of the mafia.

And, to reiterate: I was asked by Jingle to post this, from my PT. It originated from there. (I do admit that the post in the PT wasn't exactly identical. Fear of direct copy-paste violating rules played a part in that, plus my original post contained some coding errors that I fixed in this version, among the modifications made. But the post in the PT conveys similar thoughts. The version in-thread is actually more in-depth than the version from the PT.)

[jjh927]

Ooh I'd disagree with the assessment on my team because Mathdino flaked

[Bitmap]

Tiering people is the same concept as shitting on people but a different term.

[jjh927]

Nah

[mastina]

tl;dr on the case in rough order of strength:

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory

Am I wrong in my summation?

Mostly correct but leaves out that Bitmap's team's contributions to this game are incredibly suspect in their nature and an overall focus on looking town without doing anything actually town.
Plus, jjh's assessment of Bitmap's contributions felt on-point; white knighting likely mislynches (namely, Klick) to set up for future towncred.

[jjh927]

This is a top quality playerlist

[jjh927]

Being weaker than other players in a top quality playerlist doesn't make them bad

The analysis has its uses

[Bitmap]

Most players would agree that it's been a "shit on bitmap and RC" for the whole game so far and have even called out people on it.

[jjh927]

I'm intrigued as to where you found such a statistic

[mastina]

Most of 612 could be described as: mastina shaded bitmap, bitmap disagreed with that, mastina feels that her reads are discredited

I never shaded Bitmap.
Bitmap did far far FAR more than disagree with my assessment.

So this is a pretty blatant misrep.

Mastina you said by yourself that bitmap was in defense there. What did you expect to see from him? Did you really hope that he won't debunk your theories?

Why were my theories worthy of debunking? Worthy of focusing on and not forming a read off of me from.

Nobody was following me onto Bitmap.

Yet Bitmap went out of his way to 'debunk' my theories.

[Bitmap]

All mastina has done this game is talk pretty much exclusively on my slot.

[Bitmap]

VOTE: mastina

u can lynch my slot if this flips town

[mastina]

It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.

Hey mastina, what's my opinion on D1 wagons on me?

I know I should know this.
I really really really REALLY should.
I know you expect me to know the answer to this because by all rights I should know the answer to it and have literally no reason to not know the answer because I KNOW that I know it, dammit, so you're not unreasonable in expecting me to know it, either. You have every reason to believe that I would know this because I do, dammit.

But uh.
I can't remember.

[jjh927]

All mastina has done this game is talk pretty much exclusively on my slot.

You should reread mastina's iso from top to bottom