TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Alisae]

Mastina I would like to hear from xtoxm

I want to hear from Pine.

Xtoxm/kuribo are the better town players in that team imo.

[Chemist1422]

Chemist let's solve this shit

I'm not sold on ofrhz-scum. I don't think the reasons for scumreading her are convincing and I'd lean town on the slot overall, as does the rest of my team. We can DMZ that slot though, I don't think it's a bad thing that the wagon exists, you do you etc.

Talk to me about your Mena read. I'm at a loss for how to read him if I'm being honest - after our last game with him I feel as though he has a pretty massive scum range so I've got a paranoid bias there. What makes you think he's town?
I'd also be interested in your hito townlean/if you had any thoughts on either my reasons for voting him or Shadow's.

My hito read was admittedly pretty one-dimensional so I’m in the “you do you” camp on the wagon on him

My Mena read is because I think he’s approaching me with just a little paranoia in a genuine way

I’m not 100% sold on lynch ofrhz but I don’t feel strong enough on any other slots to move my vote aorn

[mastina]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

[Bitmap]

If I was Bitmap I'd be demoralized reading this too, with half the players asking for RC's opinions/mentioning RC and the other half asking Bitmap why they think RC's name being involved is a big deal, lol. (ﾉΦωΦ)ﾉ

RC pretty much said this as well. If you guys wanted to have RC help out more, he'd put in more effort and thought. If you guys want him to fuck off, he'll fuck off. However, the more this game progresses, the more that it seems like I'm getting shit on whether or not RC helps me out and sends messages here or plays his own game which is not fair to him.

Also adding that he mentioned how postie was accused about being proxy!RC but she wasn't.

[Chemist1422]

I think I’m least confident on my Jingle townread

I might reevaluate going with the assumption that Klick/mastina/Bitmap are all town

[jjh927]

I feel like a large number of the players in this game are the strongest in their teams, or are pretty close to that, but good on all of you for making use of the core concept of team mafia

[mastina]

Hey mastina, did you read big four mafia

I believe that game appears in a scummies nomination, yes?

Then it is something I need to read...but as of right now, have yet to. I might've done the most basic bitch of preliminary work on the scummies judging yesterday but I was far far too tired to actually get around to analyzing any of the tough categories last night. (Almost every single category, bar a select few, is an incredibly tough category because there's just so many GOOD candidates and we can only take so many through, so. I need to be fully lucid to give those games the analysis they deserve so I can make the most objective decisions possible rather than my tired-subjective-snap-decisions. Granted, I'd rather make tired-subjective-snap-decisions than no decision at all, but uh. It should go without saying that lucid objective analyzed decisions are superior to tired-subjective-snap-decisions.)

[Chemist1422]

Jingle
Gamma Emerald
Alisae ?

Shadoweh

hitogoroshi
ofrhz

Menalque

jjh927

Kerset

[mastina]

Mastina I would like to hear from xtoxm

I mean I can convey that request to the team but I literally just said that this game is my team's bottom priority and that I'm flying solo. I don't expect that to change until D2 at earliest.

[Chemist1422]

I feel like a large number of the players in this game are the strongest in their teams, or are pretty close to that, but good on all of you for making use of the core concept of team mafia

Neither of those apply to me but it doesn’t matter because I’m putting in like 3 times the effort I usually do

[Alisae]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

[jjh927]

Hey mastina, did you read big four mafia

I believe that game appears in a scummies nomination, yes?

If it did I think you'd have used it to round off your don corleone nom on me which you didn't

[Jingle]

I believe Pine won't get mad at me for sharing that this game is our team's bottom priority pretty much. It doesn't need my teammates' help so I'm flying solo, too. I'll get their help eventually, later in the game, when it's needed, but it isn't needed right now by and large.

Nobody on my team wants to read my game.

Also, worth noting, I asked mastina for her evalulations because I was curious from a whole event standpoint if she'd ranked teams or individual players. I disagree with he evaluation of my team (I intend to lean heavily on SS and RCE for reads accuracy in the lategame if I'm still alive) but am aware that she vastly overrates my townplay. That has very little to do with why I'm scumreading her.

In the same vein, I'll probably ask a question in a few days once I'm sure it can't benefit other teams that has absolutely nothing to do with this game specifically, but rather the approach teams are taking towards the event as a whole.

[mastina]

Hey mastina, did you read big four mafia

I believe that game appears in a scummies nomination, yes?

If it did I think you'd have used it to round off your don corleone nom on me which you didn't

Oh.
In that case.
No, I definitely didn't read the game.

[Chemist1422]

ofrhz

(4):

Chemist1422

,

jjh927

, Jingle, Kerset

Klick

(4):

Alisae, Menalque,

hitogoroshi,

mastina

hitogoroshi

(2):

Shadoweh, Klick

Kerset

(1): ofrhz

Jingle

(1):

Bitmap

Not Voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

(this isn’t current VC)

00DF00

is confirmed town (to me)

707FFF

is someone who I’m working with the assumption of being town

FF50FF

is someone who I just think is town

Jingle/Kerset/hito
Jingle/Kerset/Gamma
Jingle/hito/Gamma
Kerset/hito/Gamma
ofrhz/hito/Gamma

maybe?

Honestly none of that feels that right except maybe Jingle/hito/Gamma

Could mean I’m wrong on someone like mastina

[jjh927]

Hey mastina, did you read big four mafia

I believe that game appears in a scummies nomination, yes?

If it did I think you'd have used it to round off your don corleone nom on me which you didn't

Oh.
In that case.
No, I definitely didn't read the game.

Well if you want to get more paranoid about my scumgame then go ahead because it's my latest and it finished a couple of days before the end of 2019
Especially day 1

but I kinda assumed you must have read it based on how you're delaying placing me

[Klick]

But that's exactly what I'm getting at. How on earth do you post shit like this:

Shadow come solve this game with your favorite kawaii pink blob <(^-^)>
Right now I think you could pretty easily be scum but I'd totally be willing to ignore that if you went scumhunting with me!

Sorry, by 'scumhunting' I just meant solving in general. My style is usually townhunting too tbf. I just want to see some Shadow thoughts because you're someone I'd feel comfortable and confident chatting things out with.
So I also want to see your townreads! But like, yours specifically, your team is nice and all but I want to know what you think. You're reading me as town - who else?

And then not even notice that you're voting the same person as she is? If you care so much about Shadoweh's read contingent on her being town, wouldn't you at least remember her biggest scum read?

When I tried to engage with Shadow she didn't seem to have had a read on you. In fact, she personally didn't seem to have any reads.
I have a bit of a one-track mind/executive functioning struggle. It's hard for me to keep a ton of info in my head at one time without referring back to notes, and that applies to Mafia as well as other things. With the exception of people who have been pushing particularly hard/the people voting me, it's hard for me to remember who anyone's voting in a game without going and checking.
I did my own read of the game and independently found that you were scummy. I wasn't focused on Shadow's opinion when I did that, so her vote on you didn't cross my mind.

I had this question for you in my head as I was going to sleep last night - as a general rule, do you tend to scumhunt as though everyone thinks and plays the same way? A lot of your thoughts stem from a place of 'oh, a town player would be playing in this specific way' or 'a scum player wouldn't bother with that' without ascribing things to the person posting them. Is that typical of how you play/are you conscious of it? Do you assume others also play this way?

Kind of. I assume a base state that people act consistent with their role motivations, and I wait for meta/someone's explanation to tell me if they don't. You get some false positives with this approach but you throw an awful lot of baby out with the bathwater if you assume that people's behavior is individual and there isn't an inherent tendency for townies to want credit for their pushes, scum to want to proxy responsibility, etc.

I feel as though there's a reasonable middle ground there. I'm probably too much on the individual motivation side of the scale, but I don't think either extreme is the optimal way to play.
Sorry, this got off-topic! I understand your way of playing a bit better now though.

Also worth noting that the mastina thing you got from your team is the same as what I said about her. Is there any reason you didn't comment on that?

Because I disagreed with your first sentence "This game has had plenty of content - there's enough out there for some sort of read on most of this cast"; I think that the actual point of the tell is that scum in low-pressures situation don't usually want to spend a bunch of words just to emphasize they aren't having reads. But then KittyMo and Gamma both brought up, unprompted, that they

do

jive with the tell generally but for

specifically

mastina they don't think it's applicable. Which yeah is close to what your second sentence was, but it means a lot more from people who I know understand the usual theory behind it being a town tell + I know they are not lying to me whereas you might be.

The point I'm getting at here is, I had the same thought as your teammates - and therefore had an approach to this situation that was the same as town's, from your perspective. I was curious if that made me more likely to be town in your eyes at all. But now that I'm typing that out it sounds a bit convoluted. *shrug*

[Chemist1422]

ofrhz

(4):

Chemist1422

,

jjh927

, Jingle, Kerset

Klick

(4):

Alisae, Menalque,

hitogoroshi,

mastina

hitogoroshi

(2):

Shadoweh, Klick

Kerset

(1): ofrhz

Jingle

(1):

Bitmap

Not Voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

(this isn’t current VC)

00DF00

is confirmed town (to me)

707FFF

is someone who I’m working with the assumption of being town

FF50FF

is someone who I just think is town

Jingle/Kerset/hito
Jingle/Kerset/Gamma
Jingle/hito/Gamma
Kerset/hito/Gamma
ofrhz/hito/Gamma

maybe?

Honestly none of that feels that right except maybe Jingle/hito/Gamma

Could mean I’m wrong on someone like mastina

Shadoweh should’ve been in pink oops

[mastina]

Could mean I’m wrong on someone like mastina

Sure are but I'm not the blue-color you're wrong on.

[Alisae]

Btw I definitely think mastina v bitmap is not a TvT

[Klick]

My Mena read is because I think he’s approaching me with just a little paranoia in a genuine way

I read through his ISO and couldn't tell exactly what you meant here. Could you expand/quote what you mean?

[jjh927]

Why do you think the scum is Mastina over Bitmap though Ali

I feel like some really compelling arguments have been made here

[Alisae]

Mastina read on me reeks TMI and Bitmap is playing similar to RC that its starting to concern me

[jjh927]

Mastina read on you looks like a lazy version of my read on you that I haven't explained outside of my head yet

[Alisae]

like I think bitmap just wanting to use my script to not read mastina’s posts seems more town indicative then scum indicative and bitmap seems to feel like he’s being super marginalized.
Like maybe that makes him town but his playstyle is freaking me out