TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Chemist1422]

am I weird because I’m actually putting effort in

[Menalque]

Ofrhz wagon still looks pretty good to me, especially considering Ofrhz's readslist

I don't think there's much progression from basically null on me and Jingle there

Doubt away but:

Bitmap is vying for towncred for when likely flips occur
Ofrhz is under some pressure rn
Gamma is near absent

Hito would be the only scum on the Klick wagon if there was any

Ali, menalque, mastina are all town

this is what I didn't like about your posting jjh

(1) I really don't think ofhrz is scum and I don't see what's scummy about her posting at all

(2) bitmap's posting hasn't been good but I don't think he's been vying for towncred for when flips occur (you get some cred for gamma here tho)

(3) you fit into the camp of people who I think have enough of an idea of me to not necessarily think I'm that towny here and yet your TRing me anyway and I'm somewhat concerned that you're going for a pocket

[Menalque]

am I weird because I’m actually putting effort in

that's some of it yeah

[Menalque]

wait actually no, that's what's towny about you

what's weird is I don't understand your ofhrz scumread, like, at all

[Menalque]

and it seems disproportionately strong fro what you did say about it

and that you're still on her now despite saying you feel less sure recently

how about voting gamma with me?

[Menalque]

@jjh when you're next here, can you tell me if skitt has been following this game and if so who's her top SR?

[Chemist1422]

am I weird because I’m actually putting effort in

that's some of it yeah

nice

wait actually no, that's what's towny about you

what's weird is I don't understand your ofhrz scumread, like, at all

ohhh okay

and it seems disproportionately strong fro what you did say about it

and that you're still on her now despite saying you feel less sure recently

how about voting gamma with me?

I don’t feel that sure but again I don’t have any stronger feelings

Gamma is a PoE scumread for me tbh because they just like

Haven’t really been here

[Menalque]

why not sheep me on it?

[Jingle]

It's not the worst end of the day, but we're not quite done with the juggling hornet's nests portion of the dayphase.

[hitogoroshi]

Klick 563 is good in that demanding specific names out of "scum must be..." arguments, especially with 3-4 people wagons, is the correct play

What did you think about the meta reads given on Chemist? The ones that essentially said this is chemist’s town game.

I put a decent amount of stock into players saying "this player as town doesn't focus on using vote proactively to get info", but pretty much never trust it being an active town-tell. So sure, I believe the meta enough that it softened my scum read on chemist - that's why I hopped off. Doesn't change that chemist's early play feels off to me, so still wanted to mention it, especially since my town end is a lot more stratified than my scum end and I wanted to give at least some insight.

Re: mastina 612 - it has a lot of heart to it and seems pretty darn town indicative to me. For specifically Bitmaps switch off of me without justifying why, there is the meta softener that this happens a lot with me in particular, so I guess I'm more inclined to view it as actually a townie thing. Scum like to scrounge up a reason to get off but sometimes townies just smell the effort vibes off my posts and dip out. I liked when Alisae did it too. I think that "discredit" is one of those things whose scumminess is really contingent on the personal interpretations of stuff - I can understand Bitmap getting offended by the initial stack ranking post and then just wanting to call out that idea instead of sorting your slot. 343 is pretty sketch when you bring it up, but overall I think my feelings are still the same with what I mentioned re: Jingle - it's nominally true that Bitmap is not trying to sort the mastina slot and is instead just attacking it, but in this context I can pretty easily buy it from either alignment.

...but having typed all that shit it's pretty annoying that Bitmap then voted mastina after so much time dedicated to putdowns-implying-town. Because it's exactly consistent with Bitmap being an emotional town who's now just letting hurt feelings make him play poorly, but it's also a pretty easy move for Bitmap scum to do and have somewhere to park justifiably. And since, if Bitmap is town, this is a raw emotional nerve, sorting out which is which is a hard sell. Tbh with the way things panned out if it was gladiate between mastina vs. Bitmap I think I actually vote Bitmap now, but pouty-town still seems way too plausible for me to want it, especially in context of Bitmap's earlier play

mastina 666 (appropriate because this cross vote is cursed) is actually a pretty elegant distillation of my concern; namely that a.) yes, I agree that Bitmaps narrative isn't reflective of what actually happened in the game but b.) if you believe that Bitmap-town believes it, his actions follow pretty logically.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

Is there some mastina meta everyone knows about but me where scum-mastina can get herself to shoot out massive cases, after joining a consensus bloc for arbitrary wagon mongering then jumping back to her pet read, when there isn't even any particular pressure? I'm tryin to start working out a townbloc here but I just can't make myself believe 612 is from scum.

I like chemist trying in 689 but buddy VCA is 95% garbage and D1 without flips it's worse than that. In a world where people are mostly voting their guts without cases or references to wagonmates, even an L-3 vote is pretty low-pressure.

When I tried to engage with Shadow she didn't seem to have had a read on you. In fact, she personally didn't seem to have any reads.
I have a bit of a one-track mind/executive functioning struggle. It's hard for me to keep a ton of info in my head at one time without referring back to notes, and that applies to Mafia as well as other things. With the exception of people who have been pushing particularly hard/the people voting me, it's hard for me to remember who anyone's voting in a game without going and checking.
I did my own read of the game and independently found that you were scummy. I wasn't focused on Shadow's opinion when I did that, so her vote on you didn't cross my mind.

I get the executive function thing (I don't know about you, but I'm on the autism spectrum [along with probably a healthy majority of ms >_>]); for whatever reason it doesn't really apply to mafia for me but if it did I can see why you'd have the miss. Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because from my point of view, I'm keeping a pretty sharp eye on Shadoweh parking on my wagon and whining it's not moving without actually pushing it in posts like 630. And my implicit assumption was "if I noticed this facet of Shadoweh's play, and Klick is heavily watching Shadoweh, that implies Klick noticed that facet." But maybe this is just a case that the person being voted tracks their accusers better than people who are just happy to throw them in the town mental pile and sort someone else. eh yeah this vote feels stale especially since it was mostly just a trust fall with Alisae

UNVOTE: Klick

Normally I always revote after unvotes but this post is pretty long and there's a few pages I've only seen flashes of in preview edit so let me cut again and get to those.

[Alisae]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

in that case, if you think you can play better, then play better

there's a difference between me thinking I've not done anything that should have people TRing me and me thinking I'm playing badly

thats not what I said. I don't think you're play is bad. You don't think your play is bad but you do think that it could be better.

So play better.

[Alisae]

my takes on the last ~10 pages:

-ofhrz is still town
-klick is actually prob town
-shadoweh is very town
-hito can be town
-Ali can be town

-chem is weird but I think town?

-jjh is scummy but that may mean he's towny
-kerset is null
-mastina is mostly null but also someone who I really don't get why I'm at the top of her TRs for -- mastina, you said this was something you could talk about, so can you

-jingle may be scum but not a good lynch today probably
-bitmap may be scum but not a good lynch today

-gamma has still not posted anything much of anything

VOTE: gamma

Ali/mastina, do you wanna vote gamma now seeing as he's back on site and yet clearly avoiding the game which in my experience of gamma is strongly +scum indicative for him?

No I want to kill mastina atm

[Menalque]

bc mastina...TRs you?

[Menalque]

yes she's lockscum, clearly, how did I miss this beforehand

what's your read on bitmap, Ali?

[Alisae]

Is there some mastina meta everyone knows about but me where scum-mastina can get herself to shoot out massive cases, after joining a consensus bloc for arbitrary wagon mongering then jumping back to her pet read, when there isn't even any particular pressure? I'm tryin to start working out a townbloc here but I just can't make myself believe 612 is from scum.

if I get a response to the question I asked her earlier then I'll see if I can tie it up and present it to you with a nice bow and a ribbon.
What color would you like the bow and ribbon to be?

[Alisae]

yes she's lockscum, clearly, how did I miss this beforehand

what's your read on bitmap, Ali?

oi I am not some little kid that post is bullshit read it for yourself

[Menalque]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

in that case, if you think you can play better, then play better

there's a difference between me thinking I've not done anything that should have people TRing me and me thinking I'm playing badly

thats not what I said. I don't think you're play is bad. You don't think your play is bad but you do think that it could be better.

So play better.

hmm idk I guess I interpret this differently

I don't think it's possible for me to really be that towny within 20 pages as standard, or at least not to the degree that I'm solidly out of my scumrange and deserving of lots of juicy TR goodness

I think my actual play has not been bad, but I think even if my play had been better than it was then it still wouldn't be a good reason to lump me in obvtown yet

but I think we're talking somewhat at cross-purposes here

[Chemist1422]

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

[Menalque]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

[Menalque]

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

I'm not saying sheep me forever

I'm just saying give a bro a hand in getting a wagon going if you don't think your vote is doing anything that useful on ofhrz rn

[Menalque]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not,

it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative.

And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'.

But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in

.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

if we strike through all the irrelevant why does this seem like bullshit

just cause it's vague?

[Jingle]

I think this is exactly the opposite approach Mena had to premature tr-s on him in C9, which gives me vague feelgoods. Someone should go check that for me, cause I'm being lazy.

[Bitmap]

RC wants to let the game know that he "claims guilty" on hito.

[Chemist1422]

why not sheep me on it?

because I’m not locktowning you and it defeats the purpose of putting in a ton of effort if I throw it away to sheep someone

I'm not saying sheep me forever

I'm just saying give a bro a hand in getting a wagon going if you don't think your vote is doing anything that useful on ofhrz rn

VOTE: GE

fine I guess

it’ll help with vca

okay night

[Alisae]

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not,

it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative.

And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'.

But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in

.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

if we strike through all the irrelevant why does this seem like bullshit

just cause it's vague?

she always scumreads me and according to my team, I need to see what posts she got that townread from to validate if she's scum or town >_<