White Flag - TM2020

[Dunnstral]

I've never played with him before, should it be a lot higher?

If you've never played with them before, why do you think they are town?

at this point I'm just trying to throw stuff out there and see what sticks and what doesn't because this game needs something to kick start it

Low effort + unjustified townreads don't "kickstart" games, and usually people aren't trying to "see what sticks" with townreads, seems more like you're just saying words and tmi reading people as town.

Do you see the difference. One is you working with someone to get in to their head to understand what they are thinking and most importantly why. The second is getting the blueprint on how to appear more town.

I don't think that is something that scum are likely to do though, and I don't think what you are pointing at is scum indicative

Duunstral, where are your not gobbledygook reads at? Unfortunately I don't really get much from your cases on him

[]
[Joan of Arc, Cephrir, Dongempire, wgeurts]
[Kittymo, Auro, Hopkirk]
[Dannflor, Formerfish, northsidegal, Espeonage]
[

I've never played with him before, should it be a lot higher?

If you've never played with them before, why do you think they are town?

at this point I'm just trying to throw stuff out there and see what sticks and what doesn't because this game needs something to kick start it

Low effort + unjustified townreads don't "kickstart" games, and usually people aren't trying to "see what sticks" with townreads, seems more like you're just saying words and tmi reading people as town.

Do you see the difference. One is you working with someone to get in to their head to understand what they are thinking and most importantly why. The second is getting the blueprint on how to appear more town.

I don't think that is something that scum are likely to do though, and I don't think what you are pointing at is scum indicative

Duunstral, where are your not gobbledygook reads at? Unfortunately I don't really get much from your cases on him

[]
[Joan of Arc, Cephrir, Dongempire, wgeurts]
[Kittymo, Auro, Hopkirk]
[Dannflor, Formerfish, northsidegal, Espeonage]
[gobbledygook]

[Auro]

Just saying I am here.

VOTE: gobble

^Joan of Arc's ISO

[]
[

Joan of Arc

, Cephrir, Dongempire, wgeurts]
[Kittymo, Auro, Hopkirk]
[Dannflor, Formerfish, northsidegal, Espeonage]
[gobbledygook]

[Dunnstral]

Not trying to impede the gobble wagon by arguing semantics or complaining about the game = towny

[T-Bone]

Vote Count

Cephrir - 3

(Auro, Dongempire, Dannflor)

Auro - 3

(Cephrir, Hopkirk, Espeonage)

gobbledygook - 2

(Dunnstral, Joan of Arc)

KittyMo - 1

(wgeurts)

wguerts - 1

(northsidegal)

Dannflor - 1

(Formerfish)

Hopkirk - 1

(gobbledygook)

Dunnstral - 1

(Kittymo)

Not Voting - 0

( )

Activity Check - Prodding Dongempire and wguerts

Deadline: (expired on 2020-01-16 22:59:30)

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to Lynch

[Hopkirk]

I’m fairly discouraged at this point following the recent modkill and consequent tiebreaker implications. Been off work today and this is the fourth time I’ve opened up the site intending to get into the game then getting demotivated and just closing it.

I don’t think any of my team particularly joined with the expectation of winning, mostly to try and enjoy the games. They’ve been in general a lot less fun than I expected (tonewise trying to read has been a slog) and I’m struggling to find the motivation to help my team. I’m glad I got the game I did since people here actually seem enjoyable to play with. I’m basically treating this as a normal game rather than team mafia, albeit one where Hectic can occasionally weigh in, and where the mods read everything in our PTs so I can force the mods to read my erotica if I put game related content interspace throughout it.

The modkill itself results in a tiebreaker in the large theme which is pretty central to why I’m discouraged- we can’t mechanically win unless conditions so unlikely they’re virtually impossible have already been met. It’d be a lot easier if any of us had managed to roll mafia (which would be pretty good normally for team mafia bsed on last time) since then we could still win if we all won our games. Annoyingly, the tiebreaker means that even if all three of us were able to immediate call out and lynch the entire scumteams in our respective games it’s not possible for us to win the event unless very specific and unlikely events (all of which are completely out of our control, and most of which have already been determined):

1.) The game we are not in MUST be won by scum as the number of other teams (17) less expected scum numbers across all games is not sufficient to mean that we are the only team who won all of our games (unless there’s more scum than you’d anticipate based on regular setup design and/or there’s exactly one scum per each team).
2.) Every member of said winning scumteam MUST also have another member of their team who rolled scum and lost (though the loss is assumed knowledge as if we win any scum in game’s we’re in would lose).
3.) The game elements was modkilled in MUST also be won by town.

We need specific results in 2 games we have no way to influence, and we need the distribution of scum/town in each team to be very specific and have specific overlap. Nothing we could have done to stop the modkill either, but that’s gone now. Better hope nobody in your team manages to get modkilled. We’re hoping for pretty much all of the large to get modkilled obviously, since enough modkills means we can technically not lose the tiebreak, and running the numbers that’s actually a lot more likely than any other way we’ve got of inning at this point.

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Still, going to try and catch up on this absolutely normal and not at all special or once a year event. Expecting to be interrupted by an important call from work at some point though.

Hopkirk 'Hop' Hopkirk

[Dannflor]

If you've never played with them before, why do you think they are town?

Unsure what this question is supposed to mean? Am I not supposed to form reads on people I've never played with before?

Low effort + unjustified townreads don't "kickstart" games, and usually people aren't trying to "see what sticks" with townreads, seems more like you're just saying words and tmi reading people as town.

Usually games are not like this one. We're 12 pages in and half my strongest reads are still only based off gut pings and vague reasoning. Maybe I'm just bad!

[Hopkirk]

probably 112

That's reasonable/explains why you didn't comment on it when going through Gobble. Any reason you didn't comment on it afterwards or is it just something you didn't feel it was worth commenting on? Out of interest more than anything, how did you feel about our team when you thought that's how each of us were going to be posting?

On a second look, FF had mentioned earlier about seeing Dann as 'trying too hard to make friends' with North at the start. Want to look at this as I catch up/reread as calling it a TvT is obviously reasonable for town legit thinking that, but also in character for scum who wants friends.

Is there more to this for your Dann scumread?

I don't really get the mindset underlying this vote 24 hours into the event. Could you explain your mindset. Did you have any other scumleans here at all?

I explained it in the very post you quoted - FormerFish's content was unimpressive, unlike in my previous games with him. Why was this hard to understand?
Mild on Dunn at that point, no real reads on anyone else at that point AFAIR.

I don't get how you're concluding on his meta when you've only looked at the scum and forming a conclusion strong enough to be actively debating it with Dunn like that. It feels like a disengage at the end/get out of jail free 'whatever I say here is fine/I'm leaving myself open to changing it since I've barely read his meta.'

The difference I noticed on a light skim was enough to make a decently strong conclusion. Debating it also helped read Dunn to an extent.
Everything is open to change :shrug:

Dann scumread isn't the strongest since it could just be a personality tell from my 0 knowledge of how he normally posts.
His posting sounded casual early on and I could see scum-Dann building a decent pocket early game. That's pretty most of what there was to it.

Because he'd been on once/posted a string. If you had a light scumread maybe that's ok, but it sounded like a meta case when I don't see anything like enough to build a case on. I don't get why you wouldn't wait for him to post a bit more then see if he still aligns with your meta scumtell. Bringing it up early instead of sitting on it and seeing if it actually applies takes away from the read you get from it, gives you less info (unless you're really sure about this, but i didn't get a 100% vibe), and I could see it as scum posturing/using it so they have 'reads' early game/putting out content so they look like they're doing stuff instead of waiting a bit and getting something more valuable out of it.

How strong was your read at different points on FF as I might be misinterpreting the strength and drawing conclusions from that.

Did you follow up on the last bit yet? Haven't read up to date yet so this might be an irrelevant question. Debating with Dunn to read Dunn makes sense as a motivation and I'll look back at whether I see this following the debate before I look at the next recent page.

@Auro/Dann/Dong: did any of you look through Ceph meta during this discussion? I think at least 1-2 of you heavily leaned on meta for Gobble (can't remember which 100% atm and I'll check after this) and it feels odd those people are debating 'short posting style' as alignment indicative without looking at meta to see whether that's a posting style thing in every game.

I recall saying I don't care much if something's scummy because of posting style?
If it's "style" to refrain from meaningful engagement, I'm still gonna lynch.


Also, can you help me see town!FF?

Can't sell you on formerfish town since my entire argument about your scumcase on him feeling off was that he's a pretty large null for me.

I don't really think this responds to my point. Do you see why I'd have a problem with you making meta arguments on 2 people (though maybe just one since you said FF was past game based, but I'm counting it as meta argument in treating you as a player who likes meta) then being suspicious of someone for something that meta would help you to sort while not looking at the meta on that person?

Hey I'm alive. Straight up unhappy to be in this game. Will give some effort tonight.

Nevermind, I thought you meant the end of my post reacting to 122 - I totally said that, that's not a read that's lasted this long though. I don't really remember, It was just the feeling I was getting at the time - looking back on it I wouldn't call it town again, which probably isn't what you wanted to hear

When you say you wouldn't call it town do you mean you'd call it scummy, neutral, or not sure? What are you thoughts on whether Dann looks like he's buddyfinding?

Hops 'Hoppery' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

On a second look, FF had mentioned earlier about seeing Dann as 'trying too hard to make friends' with North at the start. Want to look at this as I catch up/reread as calling it a TvT is obviously reasonable for town legit thinking that, but also in character for scum who wants friends.

Is there more to this for your Dann scumread?

I don't really get the mindset underlying this vote 24 hours into the event. Could you explain your mindset. Did you have any other scumleans here at all?

I explained it in the very post you quoted - FormerFish's content was unimpressive, unlike in my previous games with him. Why was this hard to understand?
Mild on Dunn at that point, no real reads on anyone else at that point AFAIR.

I don't get how you're concluding on his meta when you've only looked at the scum and forming a conclusion strong enough to be actively debating it with Dunn like that. It feels like a disengage at the end/get out of jail free 'whatever I say here is fine/I'm leaving myself open to changing it since I've barely read his meta.'

The difference I noticed on a light skim was enough to make a decently strong conclusion. Debating it also helped read Dunn to an extent.
Everything is open to change :shrug:

Looked back like I said above. Don't really see any indication it helped you sort Dunn at that point?

Hopkirk 'H' Hopkirk

[Cephrir]

That's reasonable/explains why you didn't comment on it when going through Gobble. Any reason you didn't comment on it afterwards or is it just something you didn't feel it was worth commenting on? Out of interest more than anything, how did you feel about our team when you thought that's how each of us were going to be posting?

None in particular. I suppose not thinking things are worth commenting on is becoming a trend for me this game.
I just thought you were doing a fun thing to make the game more fun. I don't think doing a bit is alignment indicative on its own, though how it develops could be.

[Auro]

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Hey, to be completely frank, I don't really care for winning Team Mafia as a whole.
There are complaints about this game but I'm enjoying it nonetheless

About FF: He was Nev from some Booneytunz Extravaganza game I remember, and was a very aggressive (in a way that advances the game) voice there, his 20 posts here feel nothing like that. I forget why I asked you to sell me on town!FF, looking back at your posts I don't see a townread from you.

I didn't *state* a read on Dunn till very recently, where I said I

want

to townread him? I'm liking him more and more as the game goes. *shrug*

[Hopkirk]

Why's that? I don't remembering playing with any of your team (anytime recently if at all) so I'm assuming not meta?

eddie cane said you were town

I trust his reads a lot

Also, even though I disagreed with it, I thought your explanation for the scum read on kittymo was especially towny. I thought it showed a level of looking deeper when it's a lot easier to just give her a free town read for having pleasant posts.

Assuming you still TR her, can you go into your Kitty townread a bit more?

So just skimming this page alone. idgaf if it's prevalent in other games, but here, I don't want to see any of this attacking with x reason because y teammate said so. It removes accountability, the teammate is able to read from a neutral perspective, and therefore muddies the entirety of the game.

Bounce ideas of them sure, but play your game, don't be a conduit for someone to just play four games.

Vote: Auro

Agreed. My team hasn't really read this game yet. Elements was kind enough to get himself modkilled so he didn't have to.

@everyone, why did everyone choose this game?

Didn't was meant to be in Large Theme. Someone on my blacklist was in there so I didn't get put there and our allocations were shuffled and now I'm in one of my least favourite setups commonly played.

I slightly townread the looking back to page 1 to post negativity here.

Is there a reason that makes it specifically town indicative for their slot, though? Like why is the scenario that Mr. Duck had the reasoning to begin with less plausible if the slot is scum?

Yes. I think the scenario where Duck makes up a small reason to suspect me and has Damn post it is ess plausible than Duck actually telling him to keep an eye on me, given I find the reasoning provided later genuine. Dann could've just said it and made up a reason post-hoc, but it would've looked fake.

You didn't ask me if I did form thoughts on dunn from that conversation which I did, and it's hardly an "extended" conversation. You'll notice I backed off from pushing Dunn right away.

I'm surprised at how serious people take "minus points" to be. If someone's at 100, and they push me or a townread of mine, that's reason to knock them down to 95. Of course people are wrong in Mafia; it's just ever so likelier that scum might be pushing someone I think is town to my eyes given I don't like the attack. I don't see why "minus points" translates to "especially disingenuous", why are you guys stressing on it this much?

Haven't looked at a town game yet, but I'm not really interested much either at this point. The expected result of my looking there is to end up at a nullread on gobble, and not a scumread. Given I have stronger scumreads, I'm interested in pushing there.

Espeonage, what in the previous page pinged you? Can you go into details please?

I got the impression you backed off as you didn't want to continue the conversation and didn't get an impression you had a read on Dunn from it. Saying 'you didn't ask if I formed a read' is a massive cop out/doesn't really sound sincere- sounds more like 'you never told me not to break your flowerpots'.

The 100, 95 thing is just plain wrong. If 'pushing' you/your townreads is scummy then you're saying you think it's scummy to push people you don't have a read on which definitely runs contrary to everything I've heard before.

Why are you settling at a nullread when the towngames might get you a townread on him or a scumread? I don't like that you're abandoning the read as null when you literally have a source of information that you said you were planning to look at that could swing it one way or the other.

you guys this game is so boring.

You should come to our discord sometime (not really offering this), we've got so much fun going on. A 'mods keep out channel' where we do nothing but compliment the mods/give actually sincere fashion advice, shipping erotica about players (proud Kitty X Esperonage shipper for life here),

actual discussion of the games

, accidental dice rolls from unrelated games we're playing in a different discord. It's just got everything.

Currently our team has had
-One modkill
-One final warning for a post being signed by 'a mysterious stranger' after being told to stop signing posts as other people
-Two replacements, though one was pregame
-No chance of actually winning

I for one am disappointed that my plan to sign posts as people who died in this game isn't allowed.

Hop 'Hoppery' Hopkirk

[Auro]

I got the impression you backed off as you didn't want to continue the conversation and didn't get an impression you had a read on Dunn from it. Saying 'you didn't ask if I formed a read' is a massive cop out/doesn't really sound sincere- sounds more like 'you never told me not to break your flowerpots'.

The 100, 95 thing is just plain wrong. If 'pushing' you/your townreads is scummy then you're saying you think it's scummy to push people you don't have a read on which definitely runs contrary to everything I've heard before.

Why are you settling at a nullread when the towngames might get you a townread on him or a scumread? I don't like that you're abandoning the read as null when you literally have a source of information that you said you were planning to look at that could swing it one way or the other.

1. No, it was addressing the assumption that I carried a useless conversation.
2. Um, how does (push a townread is scummy) extend to (push a nullread is scummy)?! Where does this giant leap in logic come from?
3. My premise was that his play in those scumgames was aggressive, and he isn't here. The intended 'find' for me would be to see that he was similarly aggressive in said towngames; a finding which by itself would put him at worst null. I doubt the information I gain will be significant in other ways, I'm not willing to put in the effort to study it while I have stronger in-game scumreads.

[Hopkirk]

Like yeah true, but it's a horrible setup.

Lets take mountainous and make it easier for scum by adding an exploitable mechanic.

I semi regret not reading the doctor setup since it looks a lot more fun mechanically than I thought on a first glance. Other people wanted it though and weren't massive fans of this one so don't really regret it.

You've never seen town ask other people questions about other peoples scumread on themself?

How's scum answer this vs town?

NSG, why are you so disengaged with the game? Is it out-of-game reasons?

i've had a lot less time than i expected, sorry.

if you're worried that i'm scum you won't be worried once i get more time to play.

If I look through your other games are they going to mention you having any reads in any of those?

I low key scum read NSG atm, not this post but just thought I'd mention it.

Do you see the difference. One is you working with someone to get in to their head to understand what they are thinking and most importantly why. The second is getting the blueprint on how to appear more town.

I disagree that town wouldn't ask why someone's teammates find them scummy. Has this been a historically useful tell/aligned with your expectations/is there a reason you think scum would do it more?

Hopkirk 'Hop-Hop-Hooray' Hopkirk

[Donempire]

@Dann - i didnt bother engaging with ceph because being active is his duty as town. When people keep asking him questions and he responds with one liners and shit like "i dont have to respond" like his post before i voted him i see it as a waste of time on a person who clearly wants the discussion to stagnate, in fact the more we focus on him im certain the more this game will die down. Read his iso, its half one liners and the other half is "game sux" or "i dont have nor need any" which kills activity.

Im pretty certain on my townreads on Auro, Gobble and Hopkirk right now. I dont want to lynch in these three for today.

Also hopkirk, i heard the elements modkill and realize how that would kill your motivation to play on. However it is completely irrelevant to this game and how it proceeds, so it shouldnt detract from the way you play this, and if you're just playing to fun like you said it shouldnt effect this game at all much love

[Auro]

If I look through your other games are they going to mention you having any reads in any of those?

I low key scum read NSG atm, not this post but just thought I'd mention it.

Lol I

wanted

to say something along those lines but was worried it'd flout rules.
That said, NSG did promise we'd be townreading her once she 'plays the game', looking forward to it! Definitely not a slot we should worry about now.

[Cephrir]

@Dann - i didnt bother engaging with ceph because being active is his duty as town. When people keep asking him questions and he responds with one liners and shit like "i dont have to respond" like his post before i voted him i see it as a waste of time on a person who clearly wants the discussion to stagnate, in fact the more we focus on him im certain the more this game will die down. Read his iso, its half one liners and the other half is "game sux" or "i dont have nor need any" which kills activity.

I am active.

I answer questions. I just don't feel the need to engage with your or Auro's attacks on me because they're weak, I don't think there's any point in me wasting my time trying to change your minds (especially considering that Auro is scum) and I believe everyone else can see that.

There is nothing wrong with making short posts. Feel free to object to their content.

What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form.

[Hopkirk]

Not trying to impede the gobble wagon by arguing semantics or complaining about the game = towny

How confident are you on Gobble here?

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Hey, to be completely frank, I don't really care for winning Team Mafia as a whole.
There are complaints about this game but I'm enjoying it nonetheless

About FF: He was Nev from some Booneytunz Extravaganza game I remember, and was a very aggressive (in a way that advances the game) voice there, his 20 posts here feel nothing like that. I forget why I asked you to sell me on town!FF, looking back at your posts I don't see a townread from you.

I didn't *state* a read on Dunn till very recently, where I said I

want

to townread him? I'm liking him more and more as the game goes. *shrug*

Haven't played with him so no idea if him not being active is scum indicative like I've heard it is for other people. Someone mentioned NSG has a rep for that so do you have any thoughts on her lack of activity/how this differs to your read on FF?

Dunn I'm getting an urge in my head to townread when I read his posts then another one saying 'why exactly' that I can't really answer beyond 'I guess his posts feel long and he must be saying stuff' when idk if there is.

H 'Hops' H

[Auro]

Haven't played with him so no idea if him not being active is scum indicative like I've heard it is for other people. Someone mentioned NSG has a rep for that so do you have any thoughts on her lack of activity/how this differs to your read on FF?

NSG's being clear in her lack of effort so far, and has mentioned there are other reasons.
FF is a slot I wouldn't mind lynching D1, but NSG I wouldn't - even if there were reasons to believe she's scum, I'd put her off for a later day.

What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form.

Ask your teammates for the reasons? Say it was a gut read, point to specific posts that made them feel so perhaps?
Why be deliberately obtuse?
"Auro is scum so answering is a waste of my time, therefore I shall simply refuse to answer" is a poor approach.

[Hopkirk]

I got the impression you backed off as you didn't want to continue the conversation and didn't get an impression you had a read on Dunn from it. Saying 'you didn't ask if I formed a read' is a massive cop out/doesn't really sound sincere- sounds more like 'you never told me not to break your flowerpots'.

The 100, 95 thing is just plain wrong. If 'pushing' you/your townreads is scummy then you're saying you think it's scummy to push people you don't have a read on which definitely runs contrary to everything I've heard before.

Why are you settling at a nullread when the towngames might get you a townread on him or a scumread? I don't like that you're abandoning the read as null when you literally have a source of information that you said you were planning to look at that could swing it one way or the other.

1. No, it was addressing the assumption that I carried a useless conversation.
2. Um, how does (push a townread is scummy) extend to (push a nullread is scummy)?! Where does this giant leap in logic come from?
3. My premise was that his play in those scumgames was aggressive, and he isn't here. The intended 'find' for me would be to see that he was similarly aggressive in said towngames; a finding which by itself would put him at worst null. I doubt the information I gain will be significant in other ways, I'm not willing to put in the effort to study it while I have stronger in-game scumreads.

1- nothing further to address
2- Because your townreads are other peoples nullreads. I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. Unless you think that every townie should have reads perfectly alligned with yours (especially early on) then their pushing

your

townreads is more likely (given num town vs num scum) to be a town pushing a nullread. The majority of pushes are going to be town/town especially early on when people are trying to do initial sorts and reads are light.
3- Reading Gobble meta would also help sort Dunn right? I'm assuming you're just
I understand 'not wanting to put the effort in'. I was going to look at Gobble's past games when I noticed Hectic in a few of them and thought 'phew, wasn't looking forward to diving into meta' since I'm getting to a fairly busy time workwise again (gosh darn December year ends).

Note to self - play a game sometime where your gimmick is conducting the game like an audit. Or don't. Definitely don't.

@Dann - i didnt bother engaging with ceph because being active is his duty as town. When people keep asking him questions and he responds with one liners and shit like "i dont have to respond" like his post before i voted him i see it as a waste of time on a person who clearly wants the discussion to stagnate, in fact the more we focus on him im certain the more this game will die down. Read his iso, its half one liners and the other half is "game sux" or "i dont have nor need any" which kills activity.

Im pretty certain on my townreads on Auro, Gobble and Hopkirk right now. I dont want to lynch in these three for today.

Also hopkirk, i heard the elements modkill and realize how that would kill your motivation to play on. However it is completely irrelevant to this game and how it proceeds, so it shouldnt detract from the way you play this, and if you're just playing to fun like you said it shouldnt effect this game at all much love

Can you explain the Auro townread?

I am enjoying playing this game now that I've gotten back into it a bit more. I'm liking the pacing/posting styles in general in the game. Just semi-disappointing that I don't really have a 'team' in play during team mafia anymore but it doesn't really affect my motivation to play in this now that I got back to actually posting on the site.

I don't have any ill will against Elements or anything. I know Elements + the rest of my team in real life (that's why we had two replacements for one of the slots) and don't think there's any chance he was intentionally doing it/understood what it meant and why it was banned. I knew one guy irl who it took a while for him to realize that when I asked him 'are you mafia' saying 'no' when he was town and refusing to answer when he was mafia was such a problem/was making me beat my head against the wall.

Hop 'Hoppery' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

Haven't played with him so no idea if him not being active is scum indicative like I've heard it is for other people. Someone mentioned NSG has a rep for that so do you have any thoughts on her lack of activity/how this differs to your read on FF?

NSG's being clear in her lack of effort so far, and has mentioned there are other reasons.
FF is a slot I wouldn't mind lynching D1, but NSG I wouldn't - even if there were reasons to believe she's scum, I'd put her off for a later day.

What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form.

Ask your teammates for the reasons? Say it was a gut read, point to specific posts that made them feel so perhaps?
Why be deliberately obtuse?
"Auro is scum so answering is a waste of my time, therefore I shall simply refuse to answer" is a poor approach.

I haven't played with North in a while but I think I heard somewhere she's strong town. Is that why you'd avoiding lynching there, or is it because you think she's easier to sort later, or something else?
Think you said FF was strong town (though may be twisting your phrasing here when you just meant like 'active') so is there a difference there?

Didn't NSG's lack of effort come after the FF exchange? Her early posts didn't really specify anything of that sort.

Hop 'Hopson' Hops

[Auro]

1- nothing further to address
2- Because your townreads are other peoples nullreads. I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. Unless you think that every townie should have reads perfectly alligned with yours (especially early on) then their pushing your townreads is more likely (given num town vs num scum) to be a town pushing a nullread. The majority of pushes are going to be town/town especially early on when people are trying to do initial sorts and reads are light.
3- Reading Gobble meta would also help sort Dunn right? I'm assuming you're just
I understand 'not wanting to put the effort in'. I was going to look at Gobble's past games when I noticed Hectic in a few of them and thought 'phew, wasn't looking forward to diving into meta' since I'm getting to a fairly busy time workwise again (gosh darn December year ends).

2. Yes, but I'm looking at things from my perspective, where the only information I know for sure is

my

alignment, and afterwards hunches on others' alignments. So from my PoV, if I feel someone's town, and someone else is continuously attacking this townsperson, that's enough to knock them down a few points early game. Nowhere does it mean it's a solid unchanging read. As to the latter argument, the majority of the game is going to be town, so anyone I push is more likely going to be town than scum anyway, no?
3. Incomplete point? I don't think it would help sort Dunn - I don't have reason to believe Dunn's lying about said meta.

[Auro]

I haven't played with North in a while but I think I heard somewhere she's strong town. Is that why you'd avoiding lynching there, or is it because you think she's easier to sort later, or something else?
Think you said FF was strong town (though may be twisting your phrasing here when you just meant like 'active') so is there a difference there?

Didn't NSG's lack of effort come after the FF exchange? Her early posts didn't really specify anything of that sort.

Yeah, that alone is a reason I'd avoid lynching her D1. She is

also

easier to sort after some gameplay, I guess (although I have lost to scum!NSG before).
Also, I feel that the nature of Team Mafia and the game setup might make it easier to read her as well.

Yeah I wouldn't apply a BoP to FF, I did indeed mean 'active' in the sense of meaningfully aggressive and probing, etc. His current content is lacklustre.

[Donempire]

stuff

I am active.

I answer questions. I just don't feel the need to engage with your or Auro's attacks on me because they're weak, I don't think there's any point in me wasting my time trying to change your minds (especially considering that Auro is scum) and I believe everyone else can see that.

There is nothing wrong with making short posts. Feel free to object to their content.

What would you propose I say instead when asked to explain a teammate's read when they didn't offer any reasons? I was heading off an expected attack about this lack of reasons when my team is primarily, though not entirely, communicating in gut read form.

Now that i read it i see i've worded it poorly. Nonetheless what i meant was (i think) very clear, and thats while you might be active you contribute nothing.
I dont care that you didnt respond to me. I didnt mean to argue with you at any point because i know that would be fruitless, and the way i know that is because you paid gobble no mind when he actually stopped to engage. You're right that you wont change my mind by arguing with me, but if you're not going to do that i'd expect you to argue with others instead of passively answering questions then crying that the game is boring.

I guess there isnt anything wrong with short posts specifically but yours are bad and short, so i attributted it to the latter. I'll focus on a few so you can see where im coming from.

You could ask them if they have any reason and post that. Doesnt matter if its gut, tarot, random.org, any reasoning is better than no reasoning, because they have to have A reasoning after all. An overly aggressive attitude like that only creates needless mystery around something that can be resolved quite easily, like you did now.

auro hopkirk gobb

Can you explain the Auro townread?

I am enjoying playing this game now that I've gotten back into it a bit more. I'm liking the pacing/posting styles in general in the game. Just semi-disappointing that I don't really have a 'team' in play during team mafia anymore but it doesn't really affect my motivation to play in this now that I got back to actually posting on the site.

I don't have any ill will against Elements or anything. I know Elements + the rest of my team in real life (that's why we had two replacements for one of the slots) and don't think there's any chance he was intentionally doing it/understood what it meant and why it was banned. I knew one guy irl who it took a while for him to realize that when I asked him 'are you mafia' saying 'no' when he was town and refusing to answer when he was mafia was such a problem/was making me beat my head against the wall.

The biggest reason for my auro townread is the way he came on pushing me. I thought it didnt feel committed and was trying to check where my loyalties laid, so i responded accordingly and he unvoted and saw that was eight. I dont think scum pulls something like that especially while we were the only ones active amd when he couldnt shade me through that. Also he has been pretty active and engaging with everyone, even people willing to townread him, so i get the sense hes trying to solve rather than clear his name and lie down if that makes sense.

Yeah i also agree that the punishment to both the game and elements was too severe for something as common as that, s warning should have sufficed but im not a mod. Even if elements did it intentionally to clear his name thats bad play rather than rulebreaking demeanor.

[Cephrir]

I could ask my teammates for reasons, but I assume if they had compelling ones they'd have posted them already. I feel backed up by having my opinion affirmed and that's all I was looking for.

There is plenty of game left in which I might choose to do more. When the content starts to interest me, I'll start to engage with it. I tried pushing on people to get some content i could use out of them and it mostly made everyone upset with me. :shrug:

I don't need you to highlight what posts you think are bad. I do not care and I do not think anyone else does either.

[Cephrir]

I'm not really sure why being on the sidelines at the beginning of the game is suddenly controversial. I don't think anything I'm doing here is out of the ordinary, yall just feel more compelled to try hard by the format I guess and I'm just playing mafia