Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[implosion]

Spoiler: luigi eating gorgonzola

Vote Count 1.9

Flopz

(3): MathBlade, Plum, RCEnigma

MathBlade

(2): tris, Bellaphant

Bellaphant

(2): teacher, the worst

tris

(2): Aristophanes, RadiantCowbells

Aristophanes

(2): Flopz

RadiantCowbells

(1): Xtoxm

Xtoxm

(1): Iconeum

Not voting (1): skitter30

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to two weeks from day start, in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Bellaphant has been prodded.

[MathBlade]

i'm not sure how you think it's reasonable to expect me to treat the current "discussion of me being scum" with anything besides bottomless contempt.

Humility? Looking back at ones own play to find what is scummy?
Teamwork?
Not demanding your way or highway?
Poking more?
Asking questions?

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not self aware enough to be as good as i am as scum while lacking the self awareness to know how towny my slot is and there's literally 0 chance that any other username gets sr with the iso i have.

[RCEnigma]

That's rhetorical I'm assuming.

Okay let’s assume we aren’t wagoning RC. Who would RC be scum with? How would you go about sorting RC without wagoning him?

lynching my scumreads and then lynching me if i flip 2 town in a row.

Idk if I would make it as extreme as this but yeah it would probably depend on the circumstances around those lynches and the manner of RCs involvement.

Instead of harsh BoP.

[RadiantCowbells]

the only town game i would have gotten lynched under that ruleset last year is baton pass.

[RadiantCowbells]

and that doesn't even count b/c it's a hydra game.

[RCEnigma]

i'm not self aware enough to be as good as i am as scum while lacking the self awareness to know how towny my slot is and there's literally 0 chance that any other username gets sr with the iso i have.

Look. I don't care about the AtE. Do you know what game this iteration of RC reminds me of specifically?

[RadiantCowbells]

no, I don't.

[RCEnigma]

Access point.

[RadiantCowbells]

then you have an extremely strange understanding of my scum game since i was trying my hardest to establish control over town that game

[RCEnigma]

Where you didn't get lynched for your town iso. And insistence that you were resolvable before end game etc. Etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

you guys by acting like chickens with your heads cut off whenever my slot is coming into question are basically making my presence in this game a gigantic weakness for town when it really should be the opposite tb

[RCEnigma]

Idk what Maths issue is with your slot. I'm the one that brought up my skepticism on your slot. Even so I'm content with you giving reads as normal. I'm not attempting to discredit anything you have to say in case you're town.

My position shouldn't weakness your town status.

[RadiantCowbells]

literally, none of the relevant trajectories of my play are the same between those games

in that game i had very consistent reads bc i had a very coherent plan, knew who i wanted access pointed and when, this game my reads are all over the place while i solve
that game i spent most of my posting time trying to get people to do specific things, this game i spend most of my posting time mulling over reads and trying to solve and at worst defending myself
that game i used insomnia's scumread on me to discredit his slot and take an entire chunk out of the game out of consideration for access point, this game i'm just telling people scumreading me to stop making asses of themselves and leave me alone and not really using them in a way that would be advantageous as scum

you're reading me off of extremely shallow things and if you're going to try to read me off of extremely shallow things you're better off not reading me at all because frankly no one on your team even knows how to look for anything that would be above rand as a tool for reading me

[RadiantCowbells]

every time i have to post about why i'm not scum instead of explain to you why someone else is scum the opportunity cost of that time is spent and my motivation as well as my entire teams' motivation fades away.

[RCEnigma]

literally, none of the relevant trajectories of my play are the same between those games

in that game i had very consistent reads bc i had a very coherent plan, knew who i wanted access pointed and when, this game my reads are all over the place while i solve
that game i spent most of my posting time trying to get people to do specific things, this game i spend most of my posting time mulling over reads and trying to solve and at worst defending myself
that game i used insomnia's scumread on me to discredit his slot and take an entire chunk out of the game out of consideration for access point, this game i'm just telling people scumreading me to stop making asses of themselves and leave me alone and not really using them in a way that would be advantageous as scum

you're reading me off of extremely shallow things and if you're going to try to read me off of extremely shallow things you're better off not reading me at all because frankly no one on your team even knows how to look for anything that would be above rand as a tool for reading me

If I give you my reasoning behind surface level does it change this conversation in any meaningful way? Does it make your reaction to being scumread change at all? I doubt it. Which makes it not worth.

Also not lynching you today so like there isn't a reason to case you or anything.

I scumread you, it isn't the end of the world.

[the worst]

ugh

[MathBlade]

ugh

+1

[skitter30]

@rc you asked about amrun; her baby has been ill for the past few days and this has been fairly low priority for her

she's reading through slowly and atm she's at:
ari strongtown, plum scummy, tris scummy, math scummy but she is the least confident in that one

[skitter30]

if you want me to into 'stuff' details, I could. If you wanted to.

yes, that would be nice
i'm not feeling super great about my plum read rn so i'd like to see what you think

also i feel low-key buddied by you rn

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

other then your scumread on me, our scumreads are about the same, and I already mentioned what you quoted here just now. So if I'm scum, what's my play here?

trying to talk me out of wanting to vote you, apparently

[skitter30]

Tbf i do think you should have been townreading me earlier than you did

objectively this wouldn't surprise me; I think going back ~a year I locktown you over your conversation with RC happening at all (if not earlier) but like I've mistakenly townread you a couple of times recently so I'm kinda being careful there as a matter of pride

tfw when you have a good scumgame

kinda impressed with myself that i had you going there for a while in the pyp a few months back

[Flopz]

I've cooled down now and ready to give this another shot. Here's my list of reads, if there are any questions feel free to ask. Or you can wait till the whole list is finished, I think I prefer that. This was written before page 51 was a thing so if anything has changed from this it hasn't been accounted for.

The Worst - I really wish the duck part was there more often. I wasn't a fan of 195 which was immediately walked back on in 201. A lot of their content is NAI and pretty fluffy. Witholding Ank's reads in 333 doesn't make sense to me, additionally I'm surprised that this wasn't followed by his own reads on the situation. The Skitter vote with no explanation bar "this is upsetting" wasn't good either. When you finally posted your reads in 979, I couldn't get much of a decision either way. Currently at slightly below Null.

Maths - Seemed like he was crazily tunneling at the start to find any small issue and blow it out of proportion which was pinging me like crazy but from how he's been playing that just seems to be the character he is and not a SR. However, the sudden TR of RC by Math was very odd to me and caused many a ping. 127 was also a weird one, the expectation that Maths had there didn't make sense to me for that stage of the game. Although, I do like the fact that Maths is very open about where his mind is going and is asking others' opinion on his thought process. Shows a level of transparency that's always good and is always pushing for content through questioning. Overall, I find myself liking Maths' playstyle on the whole even when they do some weird things, bar the bad words, and will give them a slight TR becuase transparency is king. I also like how he has been trying to work with RC without sheeping and is always outspoken with his opinions, regardless whether they are in agreement or not.

RCE - Intitially I wasn't much of a fan of him getting angry at Ducky for giving their reads of one of their team members as isn't that part of what TM is all about. But on the reread, I can understand where he's coming from as it wasn't followed by Ducks' reads. Still, giving other team member's reads are helpful so I don't agree to the extent RCE took it. Not really sure wheat I'm going to do with that whole exchange but it felt important to add. I don't like 335, seemed off. Overall Null, I can't read him.

Tris - I like the reasoning RC gave for Tris being scum, coupled with everyone else's view of it. SR.

Ari - As previously, but not properly, stated. I think Ari was initially a scumlean for the whole Maths fiasco. This was worsened through their interactions with Tris. From only questioning her at the start to later on giving her negative scum equity (145) for the quote thing on RC to then putting her second-bottom in his tiered readlist. When looked at it in its entirety it seems off. SR.

Xtoxm - Not much of a fan of their entrance, caused some pings in my brain. This will be completed next time.

RC - It seems like he understands where I'm coming from which I appreciate. In terms of reads, saying he has an investigative role so early in the game really took me by suprise and I'm not sure how I feel about that. But it does make sense in a world where Town!RC dies N1, it also makes sense when Scum!RC survives N1 becuase "Scum expected them to be saved by Dr so shot someone else", however that can also happen to Town!RC, whatever happens, this play was bold and probably makes sense to those with more experience than I. RC's maths lockscum and then backing off becuase you have to trust someone that you can ping ideas off was also weird. I'm really unsure of RC but I think this again might be an experience thing. With those two things out of the way, when I read through RC's thoughts as a whole I am liking what I see, aside from the meme posting (the pictures were cool but way too big, also explaining things instead would be better), I find myself agreeing quite often with what he's saying when he actually explains things and outlines the dots. An example of that is the Tris is scum due to Ari's tmi reasoning. TR.

Skitter - As previously stated, I had SR Skitter for most of the game, the biggest reason was her "if Math is found to be Scum from an RC push then so is RC" reasoning. However, her reaction to their argument seemed wholly genuine and not from a place of trying to defend a constructed premise which changed the game. A pretty decent TR.

I'll got into Ico, Plum, Bella, Xtoxm and Teacher another time. This took so much time and I need to sleep.

[Flopz]

I just learned that the post button is a thing, that's pretty cool.

[skitter30]

I think I’d rather Xtomx to Flopz of those two. I also don’t like how the Bella wagon kinda stalled and dissipated without sig analysis. I’d love to bear a Bella towncase or reasons to get off that current vanity.

I also tend to think the game has been mostly town in thread. I don’t get RC’s repeated suspicions of RCE in the quick ketchup, I’m pretty good on both being town, but found the notes interchange interesting if Townie for both.

Skitter remains the slot I’m most unsure of. I liked the genuine emotion in the RC 1v1, but I feel like she’s good enough to know that might be needed. The thing I’m having the hardest time pasrsing is the specific timing of her vote relative to the claim - like RC isn’t being lynched day 1 after that claim, so it seems like it could be LAMIST theater?

agree with bella, i don't see it at all
the voices in my head tell me she's easy to read and that i shouldn't vote her rn tho
don't super love that she didn't even react to the pressure tho

wrt my vote on rc - i was kinda ~really annoyed~ with him at that point and didn't want to talk to him anymore
i was voting more to demonstrate that i was kinda pissed off than because i actually sr him, i think. i knew he wasn't getting lynched there