Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

the first several pages do feel rather partner-y imo

if it's plum/tris i don't see ari being scum too

i literally have no thoughts on xtoxm and kinda think he's blowing this off but idk if that's ai for him

[RadiantCowbells]

i actually knew it was you who said that, i can't risk accidentally calling some rando smart and awesome

if it's plum/tris i don't see ari being scum too

i was literally in the process of thinking about this but i'm not THAT sure he wouldn't double bus tbh
he's definitely, like, not the point in the potential triangle that you vote first.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have that good of a reason to say Xtoxm is the third outside of PoE. I'm not super keen on either Tris's or Plum's single associative with that slot but I don't think it's like a smoking gun.

[skitter30]

ya i wasn't sure if you meant me or not lol

yeah in that trio i think ari is least likely scum

i can see plum/tris tho

plum i was likely earlier i think but she kinda like disappeared and i'm forgetting why i'm townreading her

tris had like individual posts that were townie but it wasn't like ~holistically~ enough to raise her above null really, if you know what i mean

[RadiantCowbells]

Tris has had like, a ton of points where she took a bunch of really bad takes that seemed far more likely to come from scum. I can compile them.

[RadiantCowbells]

@rc, why DID you respond for me?

what's the point of this question?
why is it scum indicative that I "garciad", like I was clearly pushing someone else and this is well within standard play both for me and people in general.

Tris I'd mostly a meta tone read. The way she omgus voted Math is reminiscent of her townplay in Port Arthur when scum pushed for her mislynch early.

that is one of the games that contributes to my experiences of scum trying to mislynch me. although, as my interactions with math continued, it did seem to be possibly different here. as i think i said days ago i'll have to review that.

this is incredibly roundabout and waffly and vague!

I don't know exactly what to make of skitter, like I mostly agree with her views on a lot of things and her reasoning is all quite *reasonable* but I don't know enough to say if that impression should give other than a null read on her right now

if that's all you get from skitter, then that means she's probably scum. I find that when she's town, she has a little extra that comes through. that said, i think i saw a bit of town early on, but i'm not sure. it will of course be more clear when i've seen her post more.

This is three things: incredibly waffly, incredibly vague, and it kind of sets someone else up to scumread you while not actually committing to the read from her end.

You think that my scumreads are town and if I successfully flip them scum and live you're just going to go after me for it.
I'm not doing this again. If you're scum I'm ripping the bandaid off,

if you're town I'm not letting you lead another game off a cliff.

And it's really rich for you to talk about my record reading you.

I really do not like the bolded. it's not like skitter was really leading town anywhere at that point.

Like you're within rights to not like it but this is taking my words overly literally imo
Even if you scumread this as town I think you scumread it more deeply/broadly rather than for this nitpicky 'contradiction'
like I don't think as town the first thing you get out of this post is 'well technically skitter aint leadin SHIT'

why is xtoxm still saying anything on page 20?

Already brought this up, but like, what exactly is this asking?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Tris

I'm gonna try to make this happen.

[skitter30]

if that's all you get from skitter, then that means she's probably scum. I find that when she's town, she has a little extra that comes through. that said, i think i saw a bit of town early on, but i'm not sure. it will of course be more clear when i've seen her post more.

(i'm doing a few things at the same time sorry)

ya i didn't like this because it sounded like she was trying to make people paranoid of me

[skitter30]

Like you're within rights to not like it but this is taking my words overly literally imo
Even if you scumread this as town I think you scumread it more deeply/broadly rather than for this nitpicky 'contradiction'
like I don't think as town the first thing you get out of this post is 'well technically skitter aint leadin SHIT'

i actually don't inherently object to this but we don't have to get into this one rn

[skitter30]

ya we can do this
VOTE: tris

the first few pages do seem partner-y with plum

not sure if i have a good feel for who a third would be rn besides for, like, not ari

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that if she was town her read would be a lot deeper than that

I don't inherently object to scumreading it. I just think that's how scum scumreads it rather than town.

[skitter30]

i kinda read it as her pointing out that you were trying to pick a fight with me

[RadiantCowbells]

That's what I meant by deeper or broader though
I expected her to actually call me out for picking a fight with you rather than for "saying you were leading town when you weren't"
or for some deeper meaning behind those words

that's not what she actually said

[RadiantCowbells]

Like she didn't call me scum for the overarching meaning, she called me scum for one specific phrase that I used. And she interacted with that specific phrase on an extremely shallow level.
I would have been more fine with it if she scumread me more broadly (ie scumread me for the general act of going after you in that way) or if she zeroed in on what she did in a deeper way.

[skitter30]

i feel like she may have been trying to rile up the spat again actually

[RadiantCowbells]

possible that she was actually trying to get my mislynch out of it as opposed to having it fade away.

[skitter30]

well i think that even like sparking a town!rc v town!skitter p2 would be a win for scum, even if neither of us ended up lynched

[RadiantCowbells]

probably. i can't say i think that the first one wasn't pro-town in the long run. at least we're talking now?

[skitter30]

ya

[teacher]

VOTE: xtomx

[Plum]

Okay, I'm really going to try to buckle down and put together a meaningful post here. I apologize for being disengaged the past few days. Some of it is just on me going back to school-work this week with a major sleep schedule change (and also getting sucked into Disco Elysium, that one is really on me) and some of it is that sometimes there are like 4+ pages of 2-4 players posting happening while I'm asleep. That's just hard to engage with. Like on the one hand I

do

think those are really useful and valuable, and have produced meaningful Townreads for myself and others of RC, skitter, and MathBlade simply by the way they interacted live over those pages. It doesn't leave me with much to say on those besides that they're there and they're good. Of the others who have posted very frequently I need to reread tw and RCEnigma to be confident in reads. However I am inclined to see tws frustrations and his responses to offers to take Day 1 off as Town-leaning in and of themselves (and would certainly encourage him to continue to take as much of Day 1 off as he likes) and this is again a reread space but I'm inclined to see RCE saying that he suspects RC at the moment but does not want to wagon him in a more Town light as well.

Re Flopz - I'm inclined to agree with RC that his posts of this morning are Town-leaning. UNVOTE: I was hoping to see if pushing him on scumreading MathBlade while accusing Ari of trying to pocket MathBlade as scum would tempt Ari to overcommit and show his hand (actually this was primarily hito's brilliant plan) but Flopz's subsequent posts and the more general Townread that formed on him (again, which I am inclined to agree with) kind of dumped that as a play.

So assuming all of the abovediscussed players are Town, whether lock or reasonable lean, we have the following:

Xtoxm - oh hell

why

like I remembered this guy's name as an oldie but I did not remember this - and I'm being exceptionally generous here - "playstyle"

oh and to answer this

i liked xtoms entrance more then yours

Can't say I disagree tbh

why?

Like an unforced nearly naked "RVS" vote well past RVS is not

trying

to look like something it isn't. It's not the backbone of any solid gambit that I know of or anything but I compared Bella's first post which seemed to be trying to look like it was *content* when it seemed really really low content as fake scumhunting from someone trying to look real scumhunting. See below for my overall impression of Bella though.

tris - nope
There's just no there there and it's definitely trying to look like there's some there there
Honestly I agree that tris is very scummy and I don't blame RC et al for thinking of me when they think of her because apparently I'm like the only one she can talk about in the game
Okay not literally but yeah her mentions and discussion of me are drastically out of proportion to most of the other players in the game and obviously

not

because she's doing a lot of heavy duty reading or pushing of a Plum slot she thinks is being under-investigated, I'm just someone she *likes* to talk about in vaguely positive/defensive ways all the time
So like I see where that's coming from

also to respond

I don't know exactly what to make of skitter, like I mostly agree with her views on a lot of things and her reasoning is all quite *reasonable* but I don't know enough to say if that impression should give other than a null read on her right now

if that's all you get from skitter, then that means she's probably scum. I find that when she's town, she has a little extra that comes through. that said, i think i saw a bit of town early on, but i'm not sure. it will of course be more clear when i've seen her post more.

Like on the one hand that might have some merit in a very broad general sense given the high general play caliber I've heard and seen from skitter and the fact that we might have some similar thought processes but I'm happy enough with what I've seen from skitter giving it more than a couple of days of seeing whether there's more there so.

Ico - Okay here is someone I have at least seen play scum in a Normal from Mod vantage point recently
I was frustrated that he made a whole to-do of making a case on me for my MathBlade vote and unvote (which I think in concept is something that makes sense in context) but it rested on him having read and torn apart every step of my MathBlade vote and unvote except the one post where I specifically explained the reasoning, and after I quoted it for him he just dropped it and ignored my requests for elaboration, though I think tw (?) said that not following that up was probably more NAI for Ico so sure maybe on that count

Everything else from him is a mehhh at best. Maybe slight thumbs up for his take on RC vs. skitter 1v1 if I'm being generous.

ico you have literally seen me be the nightkill target without exception in all the games we'd be together in. where do you get off saying stuff like I'm trying to create wifom

(To be fair to Ico I've seen him make some very questionable calls when it comes to NK choices recently ... okay sorry hard to resist that one)

Bella - Hmm. Yeah it's low energy and low-content etc. Reading it through the lens of trying to see what RC sees Town in Bella, I guess I would fairly say that what she has contributed feels haphazard in a way that seems agendaless. Her votes haven't been on really anyone I could imagine getting pushed (at the time she voted them and has been voting them) but not in a way that looks like she's just trying to avoid heat by placing her vote somewhere safely out of the way. She votes skitter and Mathblade consecutively in places where people are liable to go "what, why?".

teacher - I am going to tentatively give some points to for his explanation for stating a preference to Xtoxm over Flopz wagon his morning (that statement made shortly before Flopz's new posts)

Ari - Okay I'll be upfront for some reason I had it in my head that the V/LA was going to be more limited or partial and that he would have some access sooner, I don't know why I thought that except that when he started the V/LA period he said "Also signing off for the night now so eho knows when I'll be back" which I guess I wrongly interpreted as "I'll probably be around here or there" (e.g. enough that voting him would potentially get responses and generate stuff even if at a lesser and more sporadic pace). On the other hand nothing from him to that point or after looks particularly Town, so

Consider preferred order something like Tris, Xtoxm, Ari, Ico.

VOTE: tris

[Plum]

RC - Re tone idk, like I said I recognize that I have been disengaged and it's easy for that to become an anxiety/vicious cycle thing for a bit for me I'm pretty sure regardless of alignment (in the sense that it's harder to catch up and harder to engage the more there's been disengagement or just need to catch up in a game). Other than that I think you have as much current meta on me as anyone because aside from Perfect Masquerade as Lady 2 (until the worst stepped in for the last 36 hours or so) and as Town in a weird Bastard Mod Mini Theme with too many third parties to be proper Mafia I haven't played forum Mafia since 2014. I'm just saying that there's not much more resource there, like I get why you would find it potentially valuable.

[RadiantCowbells]

Could be Ari instead of you as well with almost no loss of # of associatives pointing in that direction.

[Plum]

I mean, okay?

[RadiantCowbells]

Basically I'm saying if you're town I like your lunch order generally