Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Eddie Cane]

We do indeed have mildly differing reads.

Explain Nacl and Bob, please. And if you have good reasons for Pops or Pine, those too.

[Something_Smart]

Doodles isnt on that list

Derp.

Shockingly he's also null.

[Titus]

I still don't like how SRed Pine is and no one responded to my reasons for TRing him.

[pisskop]

Game went off the rails after finally beginning in earnest.

People are all over the place

[Hectic]

How exactly do you "set up somebody to be scumread"?

???
I debated answering this one.

The safest way is to exploit their already present biases and ask leading questions early. The less safe way is to bus a partner and tie somebody else to them, or to crumb suspicions and false assertions.

Its all about media spin, baby. You take stock of how much influence people have, and plan around it. Most people dont see too far into the future.

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn.

Hey Pissy, why are you scum this game? /s

[Something_Smart]

We do indeed have mildly differing reads.

Explain Nacl and Bob, please. And if you have good reasons for Pops or Pine, those too.

NaCl read was pretty much entirely for 1244. The first line ("Pops, I would have expected you to have a stronger read on me.") is something that generally comes from town (town is generally better and more confident in their assessments of how they are likely to be read). The post contains a bunch of good questions and there's a great example of going against the grain (also a towntell) at the end. The Hectic read is very deep and I agree with the reasoning there.

Bob read is based on his interactions with me starting at 522. (526, 527, 532, 538, 543.) This is a pretty common sequence of someone seeing my playstyle for the first time and trying to puzzle it out... except bob has played with me before. As scum. And he did no such thing. So unless he held off on doing something like this for the first few days of that game (until I became conftown), only to drop it here, it indicates a massive shift in how he perceives me between this game and last game, and, well, the simplest explanation for such a shift is that he actually has to read me now.

What is this concept of "good reasons" you speak of. I feel like my pops reasons are probably similar and less in-depth to your team's. I just don't see a lot of solving effort and when I was scum with pops she did a lot of treading water and just like talking about stuff without really going anywhere. Can't really point to specific posts as this is more a lack of towny content which has usually been there when pops has been town.

Pine read is the opposite, his content overall is fine but he has a few posts I just really dislike. 641 is just dumb, 892 feels overblown (and having been scum with Pine as well, he definitely makes overblown posts like that as scum), 1074 and 1081 are in very bad faith and feel manipulative, and the whole Hectic push and backing off of it doesn't seems natural and seems agenda-y.

[Hectic]

If you are insinuating that it was a townslip, why did you ask the question underlined there?

So my first thought when I say that post was that it was a townslip, but I asked the question so I could get clarification for how Nancy actually came to the incorrect assumption there were 2 mafia, to check for a possible fabrication of a townslip. I'm pretty sure it's a townslip, but do you want to answer this, Nancy?

[Something_Smart]

no one responded to my reasons for TRing him.

Link?

[Hectic]

I disagree with her read on Eddie. I think she was too quick to go after him over revealing the neighbourhood. I think it's far more likely that Eddie was irritated and revealed it rather than him being too careless and letting it slip. I don't think it's a very good reason to be townreading her and scumreading Eddie.

I do completely agree with her reasoning there though, because I have personal experience of catching scum using that exact same logic where being right is more important than them over figuring out alignments, Eddie's tone and nature this game has reeked of town otherwise though.
Regarding Pops, I initially read her outrage as genuine, but it is the first time I've ever seen such a strong reaction from her, but I've played with town and scum her, so I don't know if that's AI for her. If someone could weigh in on that.

[Titus]

Pine was pushing way too hard: first Krazy/me, then Hectic and when Piss and me jumped off, Pine wanted to ram through which is obviously now a Hectic mislynch.

And the jump to NaCi is hella gross. I believe there’s one scum on that wagon and I don’t think it’s you.

I object to this narrative. Pine hasn't been pushing anything too hard. He was the only one who pressured my reaction on the best plan being rejected, which suggested an attempt to sort me. He didn't push me too hard.

Krazy might be scum.
You think a feather pushes you too hard.
Hectic is scum, more likely than not.

NaCl is highly likely scum with Hectic.

Hectic DDL NaCl contains at least 2 scum, if not all three. If I am wrong on one, it's pops most likely.

[pisskop]

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn.

nah. its a lot of work.

I used to keep notes in an excel doc for my games.

[Eddie Cane]

Game went off the rails after finally beginning in earnest.

People are all over the place

I'm having fun!

[Something_Smart]

Titus, that seems to only be a defense against Nancy's specific accusation that Pine was pushing too hard, and not a reason to townread him in general.

[Eddie Cane]

Can I get Krazy votes now? Do I have the swing?

[Hectic]

Can I get Krazy votes now? Do I have the swing?

You should have posted that Krazy case, regardless of it's awkwardness. Right now you have... nothing.

[Eddie Cane]

I'll add this in

Ank hydra'd with Krazy, like, a lot. Tom also has experience. He is both of their individual top SRs, it isn't groupthink or a compromise SR. I reviewed a lot of Ank's linked meta, and I agree Krazy is not townie here. Casing a read that's not mine primarily is weird, i dunno why there is so much resistance to killing a slot that I think other than Nancy nobody even really town reads ??

[Hectic]

I'll add this in

Ank hydra'd with Krazy, like, a lot. Tom also has experience. He is both of their individual top SRs, it isn't groupthink or a compromise SR. I reviewed a lot of Ank's linked meta, and I agree Krazy is not townie here. Casing a read that's not mine primarily is weird, i dunno why there is so much resistance to killing a slot that I think other than Nancy nobody even really town reads ??

Sure, but people are going to pursue their own scumreads over you team's, unless they're very sure about you being town, because they know their own alignment while they don't know yours'. Maybe ask Ank and Tom to case him in your PT?

[Hectic]

Wow, I clearly have a lot to learn.

nah. its a lot of work.

I used to keep notes in an excel doc for my games.

Only time I've ever kept records in a spreadsheet are as town. Way too much effort as scum, but probably makes things a lot easier.

[Krazy]

I've spent the last half hour writing a Krazy case, but because the read is mostly from Tom and Ank it sound super awkward and I got bored

Have you considered that maybe at a subconscious level you know she's wrong?

The reality is that while your team might be all good players you are the one in the game. This means people are reacting to what you write and think, and so far you've mostly just been kinda oblique. Ank is a great friend and we have hydra'd a lot which also means she doesn't actually play with me that often in a way. When we did play together, she got false positives on me pretty regularly. When I am actually in a game with her, her (wrong) pushes on me can often help me gauge her alignment, but that's hard enough without an intermediary. My read on you has to be based on you. And the problem with your other team reads is that even if you are town, we don't really know how recent or deep those reads are.

Can you break down your pops case to some main arguments if you're not really into writing big long cases?

[Eddie Cane]

I'll add this in

Ank hydra'd with Krazy, like, a lot. Tom also has experience. He is both of their individual top SRs, it isn't groupthink or a compromise SR. I reviewed a lot of Ank's linked meta, and I agree Krazy is not townie here. Casing a read that's not mine primarily is weird, i dunno why there is so much resistance to killing a slot that I think other than Nancy nobody even really town reads ??

Sure, but people are going to pursue their own scumreads over you team's, unless they're very sure about you being town, because they know their own alignment while they don't know yours'. Maybe ask Ank and Tom to case him in your PT?

They did. I dont care to share it. They convinced me, which is why I'm pushing it over my own top SR.

[Hectic]

They did. I dont care to share it.

Why not?

[Eddie Cane]

I've spent the last half hour writing a Krazy case, but because the read is mostly from Tom and Ank it sound super awkward and I got bored

Have you considered that maybe at a subconscious level you know she's wrong?

The reality is that while your team might be all good players you are the one in the game. This means people are reacting to what you write and think, and so far you've mostly just been kinda oblique. Ank is a great friend and we have hydra'd a lot which also means she doesn't actually play with me that often in a way. When we did play together, she got false positives on me pretty regularly. When I am actually in a game with her, her (wrong) pushes on me can often help me gauge her alignment, but that's hard enough without an intermediary. My read on you has to be based on you. And the problem with your other team reads is that even if you are town, we don't really know how recent or deep those reads are.

Can you break down your pops case to some main arguments if you're not really into writing big long cases?

I love writing long cases, I'm tactically choosing not to. You can take that as you will.

Do you think I'm scum trying to mislynch you or wrong town? Ignoring my team for a sec, I havent read one of your posts and found it particularly town this game, either. I reviewed your meta linked by Ank and I agree your play here is closer to your scum game, it's a lot more wooden among other things.

Last team mafia I spent 80 pages burying Mulch because literally everyone bar Kagami town read him. It was a slog and toxic, and yes, I eventually got him killed, but I dont care enough to do that again. If people want to listen to me on you or Pops, they can. If not, when I quietly die tonight, so be it.

[OkaPoka]

I need this case because there are one or two posts in question on krazy that made me completely read flip and I need to hear whether you considered these posts and what's your take on it

[Eddie Cane]

Its not gonna happen Oka. Not my style.

[Krazy]

I'm leaning wrong town but I feel like you're trying to convince me otherwise. Do you want me to call you scum?