Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Eddie: The best thing for you to do here if you're town is to paraphrase Ank and Tom's cases on Krazy and post that here. I don't understand why you haven't already done that.

Remind me again why you aren't doing this? Is there any specific reason?

Well I just did by accident because I asked Nancy's question in my discord and that's how Tom's answered

They didn't really write cases. Cases aren't really how actual reads work. I think the shortform answer is laziness. Ank's points against krazy, past just the many times i've said "is krazy still scum" "yes", was like a long thing citing like 10 different games i didn't play in. I do not want to spend an hour or two finding random games based on shortform acronyms (such as "sobs2" or something), paraphrasing very specific phrasing analayzing, and etc. Its a lot of work and its not fun work.

I need links to Krazy scumgames where he played like this. I’m not taking you or your team’s word on Krazy’s alignment. Then I can figure out (hopefully) whether or not it’s scum indicative. I still think TvT, until proven otherwise.

[Eddie Cane]

Tom answer though:

- no
- he has never played this way as either alignment
- tom's self-checking
- its within his scumrange? fuck yes
- its townie? fuck no
- is krazy scum? appears that way
- krazy has shown self-awareness of meta and the range to tweak it so reading him as if its the same as a past game is unsatisfactory
- most similar game is AvP but different as well
- ignoring meta, his iso is (a) questions that only go somewhere when trying to undermine someone, (b) very surface level, overqualified, and slow-to-form reads, and (c) the only real classic Krazy posts are [idk how to paraphrase this part] pockety
- tom's not using meta, so he wants more input from ank before going all in, but he's generally just scum

Ank's last comments paraphrased (this is from about 36 hours ago)
- krazy is like avp krazy
- coc he was afk a lot but had good content when present
- vg krazy was less wooden
- undetale krazy was less wooden and way more engaged
- mbos5 krazy straight flaked
- krazy as town is a player that enjoys mechanics and setup spec, and demonstrates thoughts and endings (idk how to paraphrase)
- krazy as scum simply exists
- nancy might actually just be town (this comment is as of page, uh, in the teens i think)
- post #491 by krazy is a big red flag

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Eddie, can you link me to a scumgame where Krazy played like this.

. Because my experience with scum!Krazy is for him to either lurk, coast and hide as much as possible.

i just gave tom's answer nancy... i can go try and find an old ank answer if you want but she hasn't answered my @ yet

Sure that would also be great but nothing can take the place of my seeing with my own eyes, which is why I need some evidence that scum!Krazy plays like this, because in my experience I’ve only seen this type of thing from town!Krazy.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.24

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, Titus

Eddie Cane (4) -

popsofctown, Krazy, pisskop, OkaPoka

Pine (2) -

Hectic, Nancy Drew 39

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

[Krazy]

@Krazy: Why is Eddie being pedantic and cagey AI?

I do agree he’s being pedantic and cagey, FWIW, just not that it’s scummy.

Krazy, can you answer this?

I definitely considered the possibility that he was just a pretentious jerk, sure. But now I think he's a pretentious jerk that's using personality AtE to deflect from the fact he's scum. There's just no reason for him to goad people into conflicts when they are trying to work with him to solve the game. Like I wanted to have a conversation about your alignment and he basically forces it to be between us again because he refuses to ever just give a straight answer the first time I ask. Town doesn't try to create that much discord purposefully. If he was actively evaluating alignments, he would be fucking real with me when I try to talk with him. Instead everything I learn about what he's saying is that he's slightly misrepresenting or overstating his team reads when it suits him, which is gross and manipulative

[Eddie Cane]

I don't appreciate you constantly insulting me. I think I've been perfectly pleasant in this game.

[Amrun]

How is he manipulating team reads?

[Krazy]

Who would say right now that I "simply exist" in this game? Quick show of hands?

[Krazy]

How is he manipulating team reads?

He posted his Dann comments 700 posts (half the game at that point) after they apparently were written to create the impression his entire team had reached some level of consensus on me

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Eddie, can you link me to a scumgame where Krazy played like this.

. Because my experience with scum!Krazy is for him to either lurk, coast and hide as much as possible.

i just gave tom's answer nancy... i can go try and find an old ank answer if you want but she hasn't answered my @ yet

Games, link me to some Krazy scumgames where he played like this

. I also don’t read Krazy as “wooden” here. ISO him in GDGW for blatant woodenness and in PFUPS he didn’t try to do jack. I can also understand his reasoning, I just think he’s dead wrong. Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

[Eddie Cane]

@Eddie, can you link me to a scumgame where Krazy played like this.

. Because my experience with scum!Krazy is for him to either lurk, coast and hide as much as possible.

i just gave tom's answer nancy... i can go try and find an old ank answer if you want but she hasn't answered my @ yet

Games, link me to some Krazy scumgames where he played like this

. I also don’t read Krazy as “wooden” here. ISO him in GDGW for blatant woodenness and in PFUPS he didn’t try to do jack. I can also understand his reasoning, I just think he’s dead wrong. Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

I just gave you every game Ank mentioned, Nancy. If you look at all 5, and disagree, vote Pops instead. They might both be scum, they definitely aren't both town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Can we discuss other reads? @Eddie, without those scumgame links, you’ve got nothing. I still think Krazy is town here.

I’m not interested rn in voting either Eddie or Krazy. The entire interaction reads tvt to me. Anyone who disagrees with that, prove me I’m wrong.

[Eddie Cane]

I don't think I've "got nothing", but sure.

Vote Pops then please? She is extremely scummy as well. And is who I am currently voting.

[Amrun]

How is he manipulating team reads?

He posted his Dann comments 700 posts (half the game at that point) after they apparently were written to create the impression his entire team had reached some level of consensus on me

This seems kinda tinfoil to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Eddie, can you link me to a scumgame where Krazy played like this.

. Because my experience with scum!Krazy is for him to either lurk, coast and hide as much as possible.

i just gave tom's answer nancy... i can go try and find an old ank answer if you want but she hasn't answered my @ yet

Games, link me to some Krazy scumgames where he played like this

. I also don’t read Krazy as “wooden” here. ISO him in GDGW for blatant woodenness and in PFUPS he didn’t try to do jack. I can also understand his reasoning, I just think he’s dead wrong. Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

I just gave you every game Ank mentioned, Nancy. If you look at all 5, and disagree, vote Pops instead. They might both be scum, they definitely aren't both town.

You gave me abbreviations not links and I don’t know what they all stand for. Krazy sounds like wrongly accused town here jumping to wrong conclusions. I’ve never seen him have this kind of fire as scum.

[Eddie Cane]

How is he manipulating team reads?

He posted his Dann comments 700 posts (half the game at that point) after they apparently were written to create the impression his entire team had reached some level of consensus on me

This seems kinda tinfoil to me.

its also just wrong

if you are employing the scum strat of looking townie via your team, you ask your team to give you (fake) reads. you don't just randomly write stuff and then @ them to fill in reasons, and you especially don't fill in the reasons yourself.

[Krazy]

Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

I began today thinking he was town and planning to solve with him and his team and he has gone out of his way to intentionally misrepresent as many of points as possible, goad me into conflicts that he seems to think he can win, and selectively adjust when and what he says his team is saying to fit his agenda.

I can see where you're coming from, Nancy. Last night I was thinking he was town because I thought for a moment that he had conviction when he started doing capslock posts and stuff like that. But now his capslock posts just don't really make sense to me because this just really doesn't feel like a situation where duck has strong feelings.

Like let's say it's mostly been him talking to Ank. Of course Ank wants to kill me after AvP. That would be fine and I could kinda see it for a while. While she wouldn't really be consciously thinking I was scum, she'd be talking about me a lot and would prioritize getting me right. Sure.

So I was kinda from the position that Ank had just fucked with his reads a bit but that he really thought I was scum. But the more I talk to him the more obvious it is that he's just looking for reasons to smear or discredit me, and twice I've had to have real conversations with him both about his approach to his team and about other slots and both times he turns it into a conflict that it doesn't need to be. He wants to pick a fight with me, not solve me. If he thinks he can simply get townread by fighting me, then that is a scum political agenda even if he doesn't think he can get me lynched right now. I don't really see why you see him having conviction in *sorting* me rather than conviction in defending himself

[Eddie Cane]

lol

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think I've "got nothing", but sure.

Vote Pops then please? She is extremely scummy as well. And is who I am currently voting.

No, I mean that actual scumgames are something other then what your team thinks. I need to see at least one Krazy scumgame where he plays like this, because it reads to me like he honestly believes you’re scum pushing his mislynch. I obviously don’t believe that but I’m not voting anyone solely on what their teams think. I also have seen him jump to these wrong kind of conclusions as town, so what you view as looking scummy isn’t out of Krazy’s townrange.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

I began today thinking he was town and planning to solve with him and his team and he has gone out of his way to intentionally misrepresent as many of points as possible, goad me into conflicts that he seems to think he can win, and selectively adjust when and what he says his team is saying to fit his agenda.

I can see where you're coming from, Nancy. Last night I was thinking he was town because I thought for a moment that he had conviction when he started doing capslock posts and stuff like that. But now his capslock posts just don't really make sense to me because this just really doesn't feel like a situation where duck has strong feelings.

Like let's say it's mostly been him talking to Ank. Of course Ank wants to kill me after AvP. That would be fine and I could kinda see it for a while. While she wouldn't really be consciously thinking I was scum, she'd be talking about me a lot and would prioritize getting me right. Sure.

So I was kinda from the position that Ank had just fucked with his reads a bit but that he really thought I was scum. But the more I talk to him the more obvious it is that he's just looking for reasons to smear or discredit me, and twice I've had to have real conversations with him both about his approach to his team and about other slots and both times he turns it into a conflict that it doesn't need to be. He wants to pick a fight with me, not solve me. If he thinks he can simply get townread by fighting me, then that is a scum political agenda even if he doesn't think he can get me lynched right now. I don't really see why you see him having conviction in *sorting* me rather than conviction in defending himself

AvP=Alisae vs Pine?

And he can’t be town wrong on you why?

[Eddie Cane]

If you think we are TvT, then vote Pops.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Krazy I believe his sr on you is genuine, I just don’t see evidence atp that anything you’ve done here is scum indicative for you. So, can you or someone link AvP for me and I’ll take it from there.

@Pops, what is your current read on Amrun? @Krazy, same question.

[Krazy]

And he can’t be town wrong on you why?

It's not impossible Nancy, but right now I feel about him the same way I felt about DoubtingThomas in MD2. When people start goading intentionally and refusing to get the subtext of your questions, they are usually not town. He is too consistently 'dense' to be town because I don't think he's dumb

[Nancy Drew 39]

If you think we are TvT, then vote Pops.

I’m debating it. I’m not sold on Pine town yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And he can’t be town wrong on you why?

It's not impossible Nancy, but right now I feel about him the same way I felt about DoubtingThomas in MD2. When people start goading intentionally and refusing to get the subtext of your questions, they are usually not town. He is too consistently 'dense' to be town because I don't think he's dumb

And you know for sure this isn’t a playstyle thing, how?

The more you both post, the stronger I feel about tvt.