White Flag - TM2020

[Dannflor]

Also, as far as the discourse around nsg goes, I think if she's scum here than she's not really going to be much of a threat in the end.

If she's town, it behooves us to give her the benefit of the doubt and hopefully eventually the time and space to work in this game and swing the game in our favor.

I also don't really believe nsg would pull real life stuff into the game as an excuse for lurking if she was indeed to trying to lurk as scum.

[Espeonage]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

[Formerfish]

I see. I didn't like picking at Auro for that especially given that I (and seemingly many others put in this game) don't have the most time in the world. That doesn't mean we still can't give it our all. It's scummy in that it's a very non-game related way to push someone but I need to see more from that slot in general.

Also one of the reasons I was very surprised to see NSG put wgeurts in her town block and why I questioned that. I think I saw you were asking me about that, FF?

I think i did, something about why you would listen to anything NSG has said.

I really respect her reads and by extension RC's reads. If someone I know to be a good player is town reading someone, I want to know why. Regardless of whether they're towny or scummy within the specific game.

I mean I ask my scum reads about their reads a lot too, so I'm not sure why you assume I'd want to ignore NSG either way.

I wasnt thinking about who was on her team and how prolific RC might be in their thread. I guess it makes more sense to me now why you were asking.

[Auro]

You are saying that it shouldnt be a scum read because you do the same thing as town sometimes right?

For that to be true then you have to do it sometimes as scum. So maybe thats just what we have here, one of the times you are doing it as scum and you are trying to excuse it by saying you also do it as town so scum reading you is bad.

But for that you need explicit scum motivation, no?
The behaviour in question here is my 'logicking' against scumreads on me.
I offered town motivation in that: To help evaluate the people scumreading me, and also convincing them against the scumread so they can work with me.
This isn't a generic scummy behaviour I happen to sometimes as town; I actively do this as town for reasons I stated above.

[Espeonage]

I stfg if someone really decides to let RC run multiple games at once I will destroy everything everyone loves.

[Formerfish]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

You talking about the guy who finished the game and won it for town?

[Espeonage]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

You talking about the guy who finished the game and won it for town?

no

[Formerfish]

Bc someone came in after me, was a complete dick to people who don't deserve it, and was an all around arsehole.

Dunno who it was during that period though.

You talking about the guy who finished the game and won it for town?

no

I started in Masq in post 821 and finished the game as G2.

[Auro]

His entrance gut town pinged me. Specifically #265 and #282.. I have no meta with him I just liked those posts as a way to immediately get into the game and start pushing on a deeper level. There's no long useless catch-up which I've seen a little bit of this game.

I mean after the last few pages. Ceph seems townier from them, Esp not.

[Dannflor]

His entrance gut town pinged me. Specifically #265 and #282.. I have no meta with him I just liked those posts as a way to immediately get into the game and start pushing on a deeper level. There's no long useless catch-up which I've seen a little bit of this game.

I mean after the last few pages. Ceph seems townier from them, Esp not.

Haven't read them in detail yet.

I haven't scum read Ceph at all this game—yeah I know I voted him—Esp is a very weak read so I'll let you know if it changes after I catch up.

[Formerfish]

Haven't read them in detail yet.

Who do you have a good grasp on? Are you caught up fully?

[Formerfish]

I haven't scum read Ceph at all this game—yeah I know I voted him

Also, if you werent scumreading Ceph, whyd you vote him?

I noticed you said you were reading now, ill shut up.

[Auro]

FF can you tell me where you stand on Ceph/Esp now?
UNVOTE:
Need to think about FF a bit more

[Dannflor]

I lied about reading, because I went to make more food first. NOW I am reading.

I voted him because I was frustrated with the gamestate (see: VC's with everyone voting a different person) and wanted to build an actual concrete wagon on someone since my pushes on you and Dongempire were going nowhere. I also was the least sure about him of the leading wagons at the time so it was the best place for my vote to go I thought.

The people I feel I have a good grasp on are Hopkirk and Auro, and I think I'll have a pretty solid grasp on FF and Cephrir once I'm done reading.

[Formerfish]

FF can you tell me where you stand on Ceph/Esp now?

Ceph i see as town, and im pretty confident in that read. Espy is a townlean with a good lean. I know youre having issues with them, but is it just the recent spat between you 3 or is there more to it?

[Auro]

Oh no, I'm warming up to a Ceph townread.
What makes you feel Esp is town though?
For starters, his attack on me feels very disingenuous (Ceph has the same line of attack but that doesn't). Read his ISO - there's an unexplained scumread on Dunn, a weak push on you, what else?

[Espeonage]

If it helps, I think I meant to say Dann if I said Dunn. And also I forget why it was so there's that.

[wgeurts]

Ack, I'm being a liability. Got dragged on a holiday with my girlfriend's holiday last minute but I'll make sure to get time. I know I promised this earlier and didn't live up to my word so I'd like to apologise for that. Thankfully you're all not hyper posters so I can reasonably digest this game.

[Dannflor]

Okay, read Page 15 and I'm gonna respond to FF since that page was basically all FF. Esp posted a little bit and his posts were... not great / not terrible. I want to know his thoughts on non Auro people.

Should i be insulted by the bold?


Biggest take away from the 1st 5 is a town lean on Ceph based on his vote hoping and the pressure he's putting on slots already.

I don't like how bogged down Dann got with Gob and the RQS about why this game as I posted above I think that there could be info to gain from this.

Was not meant as an insult. I just think you have a naturally confrontational way of playing the game—which is not a bad thing!

Why didn't you like my questioning of Gob? Like you say there could be more here but don't really expand on that, and it's one of the issues I had skimming last night. Like Gob's posting was one of the only bits of content in the game at the time, idk what else you wanted me to engage with, was it how I engaged with it?

Which posts and why didnt they make it onto your catch up? You talk about Dann in your first post and you seem to like him, and then without much mention of him you flip your read.

I'm gonna be honest, Dunnstral's posts make me want to fall asleep every time I try to read them, but I think this points more towards town. In very general terms, I think scum are a little more aware of their progressions and making sure they make sense or that there's a paper trail.

Which posts and why didnt they make it onto your catch up? You talk about Dann in your first post and you seem to like him, and then without much mention of him you flip your read.

what was the part you liked? There's not much there

Can you go into your mixed feelings more? Im kinda getting the feeling that youre fishing for reasons to scum read me for some reason and you have nothing right now so you are looking to latch on to someone elses reasons as an excuse to get off the fence on me.

I feel like if I was in a position where I was lacking reasons to scum read someone, I would just park my vote on one of the many lurkers this game. I wouldn't need to blatantly ask people to hand me scum reads. My questioning was more about sorting Dongempire and less you.

But I think I understand how you as town would see that post and think that. I really didn't like it last night but I understand it more now.

Already addressed the NSG thing.

How do you feel about Auro since has basically did the same things as Dong here? Are you tring Auro since you think scumDong latched onto his bad read on Ceph?

I addressed this too but I think Auro approached the read differently, even if they got to the same conclusion. I took specific issue with the

way

Dong did what he did, not what he did specifically.

You could push a scum read of your own? I feel like this whole game you have been asking questions and have been talking a lot but i havent seen a push from you yet, have i? Why jumpstart the game with saying random stuff to see what happens when you have barely said your own reads.

This frustrates me a little. I pushed you! I thought you were scummy and wanted to engage with you, but you kinda disappeared for a couple days. So I pushed Dong instead because he did something that pinged me, and that didn't go anywhere. I feel like those were both "my" pushes. My "random stuff" is not based on nothing, just small things in an attempt to give the game more content—as it feels we're recycling some of the same arguments a lot.

[Dannflor]

and I still wanna talk with you, but I'm not as disgusted by your push on me as I was last night and I quite like the rest of your catchup

VOTE: Dongempire

[Formerfish]

Oh no, I'm warming up to a Ceph townread.
What makes you feel Esp is town though?
For starters, his attack on me feels very disingenuous (Ceph has the same line of attack but that doesn't). Read his ISO - there's an unexplained scumread on Dunn, a weak push on you, what else?

I did feel like Espy took a little while to get going, his first like 8 posts are useless to me.

282 though he took his first stance, and it was a push on you, but i liked his explanation in 297.

I didn't realize how many posts he made regarding people not actually playings reads on him though, there are like 3 of them i saw/remember. This could be that he wanted to avoid people who could read him well (didnt he say he ended up here because of conflicts in other games?) and dont want their teammates in this game to listen to them.

I liked 355 as well, felt motivated towards working the game out. Wasn't thrilled about being accused of IIoA, but I'm not going to let it rustle my jimmies.

Don't mind his obstinance towards meta reads, if people are aware of metas they can be manipulated. What I don't like is his insistence that talking about meta=modkillable.

I liked him in the You/Him thing because I don't like your premise or conclusions.

I guess looking back the tr is more shaky than I had originally felt, but dont feel like it adds up to more then a lesser town lean.

[Dannflor]

I did feel like Espy took a little while to get going, his first like 8 posts are useless to me.

282 though he took his first stance, and it was a push on you, but i liked his explanation in 297.

I feel the opposite, I liked his entrance/initial post on Auro but I feel like he hasn't added much since then.

[Dannflor]

Ankamius has not read this game yet but I want her to come in soon and be like BAM BOOM GAMESTATE AURO IS TOWN BOOM

because I feel like the gamestate has stalled a long time with Auro as the most pushed player and top wagon and... what is scum doing if he's scum

[Formerfish]

Why didn't you like my questioning of Gob? Like you say there could be more here but don't really expand on that, and it's one of the issues I had skimming last night. Like Gob's posting was one of the only bits of content in the game at the time, idk what else you wanted me to engage with, was it how I engaged with it?

For me it was the fact that I didnt have an issue with his question. I didnt think that it was one that was unnecessary and I get why he would have had to not out why he was asking just yet because it would ruin whatever he could gain from it. Also most people answered it without really having much of an issue so how much attention it got was in my mind disproportionate.

In very general terms, I think scum are a little more aware of their progressions and making sure they make sense or that there's a paper trail.

Ive seen plenty of scum flip reads on a dime because they smelled a shift in the wind before the rest of us felt it tickle our ball hairs.

I addressed this too but I think Auro approached the read differently, even if they got to the same conclusion. I took specific issue with the way Dong did what he did, not what he did specifically.

Can you point out where, i dont remember seeing it.

This frustrates me a little. I pushed you! I thought you were scummy and wanted to engage with you, but you kinda disappeared for a couple days. So I pushed Dong instead because he did something that pinged me, and that didn't go anywhere. I feel like those were both "my" pushes. My "random stuff" is not based on nothing, just small things in an attempt to give the game more content—as it feels we're recycling some of the same arguments a lot.

I dunno, if it were me I either would have kept at me and made noise in the thread or would have put me on the back burner and looked for one of my buddies. I dont really remember you taking many stances on people but remembered a lot of you questioning other peoples reads.

[Dannflor]

I town read Ceph more, Esp less, and Auro about the same after catching up