White Flag - TM2020

[Formerfish]

and I still wanna talk with you, but I'm not as disgusted by your push on me as I was last night and I quite like the rest of your catchup

VOTE: Dongempire

Im here my dude, and trust me im not sold on you being scum. You and Dunn could easily switch positions for me here. I think we are much more likely to find scum in Auro/Joan/Dong.

[Dannflor]

For me it was the fact that I didnt have an issue with his question. I didnt think that it was one that was unnecessary and I get why he would have had to not out why he was asking just yet because it would ruin whatever he could gain from it. Also most people answered it without really having much of an issue so how much attention it got was in my mind disproportionate.

My take on his question was that it was absolutely useless and he was never going to get anything AI from it. As such, I had no qualms about questioning on it and potentially "ruining" the question because I think there could be SOME value in it in revealing something about gobble, whether he was town who thought that was a good idea or scum trying to look town.

As you say, no one has issue with answering it. It didn't add anything much to the game.

Can you point out where, i dont remember seeing it.

here:

I feel like your level of engagement with Cephrir has been a lot more thorough than Dong's, and from what I gather I think your scum read goes deeper than just vague statements about his posting. I still disagree with your read overall but I think the way you've approached it is a lot townier than the way he has.

I dunno, if it were me I either would have kept at me and made noise in the thread or would have put me on the back burner and looked for one of my buddies. I dont really remember you taking many stances on people but remembered a lot of you questioning other peoples reads.

Me going after Dong was putting you on the backburner and looking for another scum read. I don't see much point in making more noise in the thread at you if you're just not around. I don't take lurking for a short period of time to be AI.

It's probably fair that I've been more in questioning mode than taking stances mode. I have not been able to really bite into some of the content generated this game and I've been trying to help myself latch onto something by asking a lot of questions.

[Dannflor]

town: auro, hopkirk, cephrir
lean town: formerfish

scummy: dongempire

yuck that's a skimpy readslist

everyone else is either a stale town read or someone I need to reread to get a more concrete read on

gobbledygook especially I keep going back and forth on

[Formerfish]

As you say, no one has issue with answering it. It didn't add anything much to the game.

I agree it fell flat, especially after him making as big of a deal as he did, but im saying i get why he did that and dont have an issue with it. We are just going to have to view this differently.

here:

Thats fair.

Me going after Dong was putting you on the backburner and looking for another scum read. I don't see much point in making more noise in the thread at you if you're just not around. I don't take lurking for a short period of time to be AI.

Also fair, again i think my perception of time in thread is a little off because I pretty much took it all in one swift thrust.

It's probably fair that I've been more in questioning mode than taking stances mode. I have not been able to really bite into some of the content generated this game and I've been trying to help myself latch onto something by asking a lot of questions.

Thats fine, but im not seeing much coming from those questions or really any coherency to them.

[Formerfish]

Dann, what do you think about Joan? 2 posts, neither good.

[Auro]

Your Dongempire read's still form his Ceph push, or is there more?
Anything you make from Dong's trajectory on me?

[Formerfish]

Anything you make from Dong's trajectory on me?

The way you two went at it and then voted around each other, each other, and then with each other was weird as fuck.

[Auro]

Don't look at it from an associative angle for now, I'd say evaluate them separately. I explained the context behind my voting and unvoting him.
Besides, you surely must have seen this happen for TvT before, no?

[Formerfish]

Don't look at it from an associative angle for now, I'd say evaluate them separately. I explained the context behind my voting and unvoting him.
Besides, you surely must have seen this happen for TvT before, no?

Im looking at it individually as well, so its not that those actions are intrinsically linked and you guys are town without that little dance.

[Dannflor]

Your Dongempire read's still form his Ceph push, or is there more?
Anything you make from Dong's trajectory on me?

For the most part it's the Ceph push.

#322 is more Ceph pushing and is a lot of words that don't feel like they say a whole lot of anything. More specifically, he seems to be talking to Cephrir like he's town playing incorrectly rather than scum, which doesn't jive with his push.

I thought it didnt feel committed and was trying to check where my loyalties laid, so i responded accordingly and he unvoted and saw that was eight. I dont think scum pulls something like that especially while we were the only ones active amd when he couldnt shade me through that.

Don't town read his reasons for town reading you either. Specifically this line about "scum not pulling something like that," that being unvoting and disengaging? It feels like a TMI town read.

[Auro]

@FF: Can you summarize your concerns with me once again?

[Formerfish]

@FF: Can you summarize your concerns with me once again?

I feel like you are picking very small points of contention and are trying to magnify them into a hill you feel ok dying on.

It all feels very forced and fake to me, like youre scum who felt like acting this way would gain you a different read and now are flailing trying to figure out what youre doing that is so telling.

[Auro]

*Sigh*
I mean, the points of contention are that I am scum for XYZ, and it will literally be a hill I die on if they go uncontested
Same exercise: Can you pick out 'points of contention' that you think are unworthy of contesting?

FWIW, if I was scum I wouldn't be active in the way I am right now, I'd just lay low while other wagons happen.

[Dannflor]

because I feel like the gamestate has stalled a long time with Auro as the most pushed player and top wagon and... what is scum doing if he's scum

[Formerfish]

*Sigh*
I mean, the points of contention are that I am scum for XYZ, and it will literally be a hill I die on if they go uncontested
Same exercise: Can you pick out 'points of contention' that you think are unworthy of contesting?

FWIW, if I was scum I wouldn't be active in the way I am right now, I'd just lay low while other wagons happen.

If you had to bullet point the pushes youve made so far with a elevator pitch on what was going on what would you put?

And maybe you would, maybe you wouldnt. Again, you know your meta and are able to play with it purposefully.

[Formerfish]

because I feel like the gamestate has stalled a long time with Auro as the most pushed player and top wagon and... what is scum doing if he's scum

I feel like 1 scum is non-existent in the thread.

I think the other is probably pushing me.

[Auro]

Ceph: Lots of disagreements, can get a feel of why he thinks what he is.
Esp: Disingenuous attacks, lack of content - coasting on Auro push.
FF: Wasn't impressed with content prior to the walls, marked for re-evaluation, like the willingness to engage.
Dunn: Passive, find him reasonable, but does that make him town? Idk.
Joan: Agree with Dunn's reasoning on her, at least to make me not want to lynch her right now.
Dann: I want to call his play... political, but I have some reasons to believe he's town, but he's a great scum player as well, argh~ I'll stick to town for now.
NSG: No comments right now, she has to play the game first, but not willing to lynch anyway.
Wgeurts: No thoughts. That first push on inactivity does feel like posturing, but idk.
Dong: I felt his reaction to my push was towny, but I think I should talk to Dann more about this sometime.
KittyMo: I forgot what I thought of this player before.

On a gamestate level my hunch is that there's scum prolly in the lurkers, and not all scum are pushing me / townreading me at the same time. I think scum would find it easy to coast while I drum up pages of content arguing over things which only seems to strengthen the pushes on me.

[Formerfish]

Joan: Agree with Dunn's reasoning on her, at least to make me not want to lynch her right now.

Hold up. You agree with Dunn when he said that she was staying out of the fray with nothing else to add to the push on Gob? Almost 500 posts in its a little ridiculous that she has said 7 words in 2 posts...

Even if she was doing what you two say, not saying anything is a very weird tactic to take on a dying wagon.

[Formerfish]

And having no reads on geurts or NSG while having a read on Joan is lol

[Auro]

At the point she voted it wasn't a dying wagon, she simply hopped on the biggest one. I said I agreed with his reasoning at least to not want to lynch her for now, not that I think she's town.

[Formerfish]

At the point she voted it wasn't a dying wagon, she simply hopped on the biggest one. I said I agreed with his reasoning at least to not want to lynch her for now, not that I think she's town.

Yeah, she came in and voted the popular wagon at the time and never gave an indication that she was caught up in the thread and making her own read, sheeping someone elses read, never gave any indication to anything because she hasn't spoken in like 4 days and even when she does speak its not quantity or quality shes going for.

I think you are both giving her waaaaayyyyyyyy to much credit. And i'm not saying you are giving her a lot, but what credit you are giving her is too much. And if Dunn really believes that view point than lol

[Auro]

Yes, and Dunn's reasoning is that for *her* it's more town indicative than scum indicative - if she were scum she'd drum up some opposition to the wagon, etc, wouldn't sheep and lurk away.

Would you want to lynch her, if not me?

[Formerfish]

Yes, and Dunn's reasoning is that for *her* it's more town indicative than scum indicative - if she were scum she'd drum up some opposition to the wagon, etc, wouldn't sheep and lurk away.

Would you want to lynch her, if not me?

I didnt realize that there was a meta read being relied on for Joan, ive never played with her, so im taking the play at face value and im reminded of my first TM in 2015 where i froze after replacing into a teammates game. I could see this being out of someones league and just figuring it out and trying to lurk it out to hide. Its not like shes a pr trying to hide to make it til night to use her ability, we literally have no clue about her whatsoever and no one else seems to care that she is literally less than skating through the day because that would include not getting prodded which she has been.

I don't think i could get enough support for that lynch, but you guys are neck and neck in my book, you win out because theres been more to examine and what ive seen seems scummy to me. What i havent seen from Joan is what my issue is there and that reasoning is less strong in my mind.

[Espeonage]

Fuck I lost a huge post.

Basically I had this big thing that there's probably 1 and maybe 2 scum in the lurkers because of wagon reasons and it ended in me asking for cliff notes on the lurkers from Hopkirk and Auro and my mirroring some points Ceph made.

[Espeonage]

Oh, I do have a little thingy that someone needs to remind me of later that I'm wary of from Ceph.