Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Datisi]

I made a post somewhere, basically Amrun is pushing DW in a way I'd rather vote Amrun first i think

[Iconeum]

you don't think they are partners?

[Datisi]

Idk, since Gamma!slot isn't a lynch anymore I think she shifter onto trying to lynch DW? But if that scenario isn't bussing then you'd be the partner fmpov hmmm

[Iconeum]

bahaha this game

[alimdia]

on my way home fellas

[Iconeum]

on my way home fellas

yo

we be voting amrun real soon

thoughts?

[alimdia]

Didnt the conftown say he wasn't doing Amrun?

[alimdia]

So if Amrun is scum this won't go through, unless some bus

[alimdia]

At the moment I'm down but it might change after I reread (this is pre-reread me)

[Iconeum]

Didnt the conftown say he wasn't doing Amrun?

I'm hoping the conftown will have actually read the game prior to making a decision

[alimdia]

Defence of Amrun's post part 1:
Firstly, Trying to solve a scum team right now for me is just going to induce paranoia. Just 1 town read being wrong is enough to lose the game. Can't just POE here for that reason.
I want to just find the most individually scummy person right now and lynch them. Then if they are town, we lose. If they're scum, THEN I'll start looking at connections.
The fact that Amrun is just doing buddying+points and -points and all that stuff when we have 0 scum flips is
Its like just busywork from my POV.

wait what did I miss? why is alimdia scum?

This is really early game. Associative telling if scum.

What about this? This is similiar. Like I said, only looking for things that could shade me.

VOTE: AaronFrost

Creature, what was this? Did you have a legit scumread on AF (which I don't see how) or were you just trying to get a wagon going?

Mixing me up with Aaron is a partnertell now?

Trying to analyse using people's reads is fair enough, but literally Amrun is looking at DW's 2 read lists and basically assuming he is scum.

If anything DW TR'ing me could be just him following the train, since at that point I think Datisi and Icon both TR me.


I've always been saying DW was scummy independently of team analysis.

These posts kind of pull DogWatch out of obscurity but I need to see when sally and I started the DW wagon on day 1 which IIRC alim never votes on. Either way for this gamestate, negative buddy points.

Whats the point of negative buddy points when you don't seem to calculate it to the 'final tally'

Im uneasy about meanlque.

Why? You joined the wagon?

Thats all for tonight, had to catch up all my games, I will investigate the rapid Amrun wagon and its equally rapid collapse, along with the people in the wagon.

In the meantime, this is reminding me of another game where nobody ever follows my pushes.

UNVOTE:

Note: she was NOT voting dw here but still did not vote here even though the strongest SR she should have at this stage per her posting would be DW.

Biggest misrep ever! I went V/lA and was very busy before that. Prior to that my STRONGEST SR was SS and I had my vote on SS. I was basically really absent after that and trying
to misrep and shade me for this is???

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

tbh same argument could be made for GL.

I agree with Salamence that DW is very opportunstic, but there are others also as opportunstic. They just post less so you don't notice.

Some examples I can point out right now is:
Creature: Read his ISO. Self explanatory
Texcat: He avoids the Amrun wagon but hops on the GL one. Then he shades me using what GL says in post #500.
As you mentioned, DW is also very opportunistic

This post is super weird. At this point, sally and I are going for DW, and alim is basically saying “yeah it’s scummy and I have been calling it scummy, but x y and z (all of whom are town) are just as scummy.” Definitely + buddy points

Straight up - is this not true? Tell me what I was saying then wasn't true?

Not even going to reply to the lurkers point.

You a lot of stuff that I say that I don't know how to respond to you about. Me asking Datisi about her theory - okay.... Whats your point including this here?

I feel like alim is saying icon is scum here but she never actually says that. And it’s never brought up again.

I had to go find the context. I believe nobody ever replied, and I forgot I said it.

S_S, reasons for alimdia TR? I'm kinda forgetting that slot exists honestly, and I almost find it a bit weird you've got a TR on them while you don't remember anything I've done?

wasn't I in ur town list in post 1568? (and 1912)

hm......

yes you were
and then you dissapeared for a while

I never reappeared between 1568(or 1572) and 1912.....

VOTE: Datisi

Random datisi vote with no progression. Can’t decide what it means.

It is not a random datisi vote. There was an explanation from Datisi, which made me see I was wrong and I unvoted. Can't tell if misrep or...

honestly I wanted to vote GA for ages but I was scared that people would be like 'zomg 3rd vote on someone'

Image conscious

problem?

What are these theories?

Well i had 2 main theories before everyone and their mother claimed N3 rose
1) Scum shot me N3 and it failed
2) Scum shot the N2 rose on N2 and it failed, then they killed the N2 rose again on N3 (GL)

So either
Mena, DW, Gamma

or

Amrun, Datisi, Gamma

Where is the DW scumread gone? Why is gamma now the one in all her solves? But DW isn’t? There is NO profession here. Why has she not been pushing DW all phase?

Look me in the eyes and tell me you wouldn't have lynched Gamma over DW before he became confirmed town. LOL WTFF?

[alimdia]

Is that town/scum indicative? Why?

Like, tbh, idgaf if she's shading you. I care about whether she's town or not. Defense is <<<< offense here, imo.

Think its sscum indicative in this context (see my defence) - her only including points where she can shade me. and it being lylo.

I'm probably going to settle on voting Alim in a couple hours

scratch that, make it DW

I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?

I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?

I think they are the most solid team

Also in how they were aproaching my slot today, both solidly super hard townreading my slot

And now when they both see I can be the lynch they are both progressing towards scumreading me

I don't see why I would lynch Amrun over DW tho?
Any suggestion?

Actually

Amrun is fine

That way I won't be shouted at by literally every town this game for ignoring their reads

I made a post somewhere, basically Amrun is pushing DW in a way I'd rather vote Amrun first i think

on my way home fellas

yo

we be voting amrun real soon

thoughts?

This kinda worries me though. Icon how did u change your mind between these quotes, theres like no progression?

[Iconeum]

I lit posted said progression tho, you even quoted it lol

[Iconeum]

And if ur wondering, the answer is Yes

I'm paranoid about Datisi wanting Amrun over DW lol

[Datisi]

Why though?

[Iconeum]

Why though?

it's paranoia

unfounded? maybe

I have a stronger *actual* scumread on DW, but it basicly doesn't work without Amrun as partner and there's all town's reads to consider like Menal said

[Iconeum]

deadline approaching, vla weekend

i need to make up my mind

and it's awfully close between DW and Amrun for me

[Datisi]

ye i think it's kinda unfounded since i don't think i've been TRing Amrun? also not sure how you see an Amrun/DW team hmmm

[Iconeum]

ye i think it's kinda unfounded since i don't think i've been TRing Amrun? also not sure how you see an Amrun/DW team hmmm

I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?

I think they are the most solid team

Also in how they were aproaching my slot today, both solidly super hard townreading my slot

And now when they both see I can be the lynch they are both progressing towards scumreading me

I don't see why I would lynch Amrun over DW tho?
Any suggestion?

[Datisi]

I'm annoyed because Amrun seems to be pushing DW p hard but DW is just *not here* and it's annoying as hell

i still want Amrun over DW
at least by the people dead
their reversal on my slot makes no sense and i don't get it

but i don't get anything in this game anymore so

[Iconeum]

Top spoiler showing amruns dedicated town!icon reads

That turned into the second spoiler

Little that I said or did currently impacts the scumread, it was all there when amrun was locktownreading me

So the change is probably needed to facilitate a mislynch on me

and I think I saw similar progression in DW

(coming next)

Spoiler:

My top townread is Iconeum. But like. Shit. I actually TR him. So he’s probably scum. I give up.

And if datisi or icon is scum after all this, just fuck me

Like I get having tonal reads and letting tone continue to influence you but unless you know someone really well it’s susp af to be mostly basing your read off “they sound frustrated differently” instead of what they’ve actually been doing in the game

Why is that suspect? You have only the most garbage of reasons to suspect anyone at all. All game you’ve been trying to drop Icon back into PoE for NOT ONE SINGLE REASON. Your push on me day 1 was literally better than your push here and it sucked then too.

I had a decent “case” on Datisi with pretty good reasons but now I don’t even think she’s scum.

This game sucks and town sucks and I suck. I’m over it. If I’m to be lynched in LyLo for extremely bad reasons, so be it. The game is half scum so we probably lose anyway. I deserve to lose for having such poor reads this game.

What the fuck are you even talking about amrun

“All game you’ve been trying to drop icon back into PoE”

Fucking WHERE

literally I was calling icon town until D3 at which point I straight dropped him into the PoE bc that’s how PoE fucking works

Also get the fuck outta here “most garbage of reasons”

What like “menalque feels frustrated differently” is such a solid reason and not at all obviously bullshit for the fact that fabricating a real scumread takes effort that you’re trying to get out of by AtEing all over the thread

I guess you’re right about the PoE thing. I just don’t like it bc icon is obvtown to me.

And oh yeah my reasons mostly suck too. Everything sucks this game.

Up until today got so fuckingfucked, I thought scum was datisi/gamma(Bingle)/one of {dw, alim}.

Now, my heart is telling me datisi is not scum and I’m just going with it, I still strongly TR Icon, and I think Bingleslot must be the lying gun, so my scumteam by necessity is {menal, alim, DW}.

But my reads have been garbage all day so Whatever. I’m so fed up.

His decision about gamma being gun read as the most fake to me. It's not a strong read, but I'm 50/50 off of random chance and it's as good a starting place as any.

I'm open to being convinced on scumreads.

Can I towncase icon instead?

Spoiler:

I was trying to find some variation of "he said what we were all thinking" or "he's brave for telling the truth" in gif form but i didn't find anything good in the 3 minutes i was searching

9 roses, not what I expected.

VOTE: Aaron

i was promised a bloodbath, instead i've got a hottub full of roses? what is this?

Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

There's 3 scum tho

Only scum would notice such a glaring omission

VOTE: Datisi

Not really? But Menal might have townslipped there

Oh, wtf. It’s Salamence. Neat.

SS, I’m getting scum vibes from you. I don’t think I’m right by any means, but I feel we’re about to be on different sides of the shift. (Not alignment wise, gamestate wise) However, it could be leftover from the last Guns/Roses.

I for one

love

bad puns. You gotta go for the bad ones to test the audience. Sometimes ya hit, sometimes ya miss.

I don't like this post. Don't understand the need for this callout, especially if you say it's not AI?

Looking for a town slip on a stronger player like Menal is +town

VOTE: datisi

If I was committed to pushing/shading you on that, I would go for it and push you for it. As it stands, I unvoted already.

I think I might have missed a post here, but he calls Datisi out for the datisi/menal townslip early game thing. Negative buddy points for Datisi.

Alim, why the skitty reaction to my choochoo?

ok

Salim or Alim, the first one of you to give us the name of your partner will be allowed to live into LYLO, at which point you shall be lynched. We apologize for having to put you through this process, but at least you can live a couple more days. After all, it's not our fault you rolled scum.

Speak

Now, Icon says alim’s early game was so towny, but these are the only real things he said about alim DURING early game.

Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet

Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today

But I know ur worried about the fact that Datisi is

not quite

in her town meta as she usually is when town

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

need more votes on amrun

I know youre going to tell me its more about the other stuff he says but I don't see much of a difference between these two posts. Iconeum wants Amrun dead because hes scum apparently, and hasn't done anything since being asked by Menal to do so. Why is he doing it? Probably because he can get away with it in this game?

Instead of non-stop shading, can you like engage with me over stuff?

740 for starters - your words don't make sense with your actual 'reads'

Very weird post about Datisi that subsequently gets discussed a lot.

Salamance, ur not trying to sort me. You have been shading me all game, been calling for a vig shot on me, while also calling my play noob (why do you want a noob play vig'd?) and coasting. Which one is it?

If you are actually scumreading me, then push me. If you think i'm town playing bad/noob/whatever, then you shouldn't have asked for a vig shot on me.

Now we start into the Salamence20 push that I originally TR Ico for.

I know this is a reactionary play from me, but it doesn't mean i'm wrong about it.

This is image conscious, but a push on sally here is the opposite of image driven.

I did say 'was', and it was in reference to the current ones which I see no particular good reason for me to hop on

And no I just posted that to shade you for no good reason. /

I think what I wrote right there. It feels like ur not quite your town self, perhaps going with the flow some more rather then steering the raft.
If I thought anything major of it, i'd be all over your ass don't you worry.

These constant weird posts on Datisi I will never understand no matter Ico’s alignment. It’s like such an obvious associative tell that it probably just isn’t. Negative buddy points for Datisi.

And sure, I know I'm not hard in my Town meta of spamposting and yelling at everyone

why aren't you tho?

More of the same.

Salascum Case (OMGUS Edition 2019):

Opens by questioning my slot in 179, calling me a scum candidate because I'm supposedly ignorant in my 149. Scumread because of ignorance is mehhhh at the very best, and a scumpush most of the time.

When I question him on the fact that he didn't try to push or sort his scumread in AF, he calls it an 'opportunistic' push. It's all very weak and shady.

He doesn't try to engage with me. He doesn't try to sort me.

Also says i'm likely to be scum with Amrun, the 1 slot i've actually efforted in trying to get lynched this game.

498 is more shading of my slot, without ever trying to confront me.

Then in 736, he wants me to be vigged. Ever since the start of the game, he's been on my ass for being ignorant. As time went by he tried to add to his supposed case on me, never coming up with anything actually pushable.

In 737 his reasons for wanting me vigged are:

-noob play (nothing to do with being scum or not)
-coasting (misrep) - I mean you can't honestly Judge a slot on coasting based on LAST POST?

THAT'S IT. All the reasons he can come up with are either Town!AI, or NAI. Add a misrep. No effort in actually trying to engage or sort.

If this isn't a scum trying to get rid of me, I don't know what is.

The Salamence20 case for posterity.

I mean you have a very, ehm, forthcoming? way of playing town. It really stands out. And I'm not seeing that here, yet. That's exactly what I was trying to see how Menal feels about it (him having a ton of experience with you as well).

Yeah, in most cases I do. But it's tiring, and sometimes I do want to take a back seat for a bit.

And both the timing and the phrasing of the remark felt insincere to me. Plus, you've much more experience with town!me than he does, and you've seen me play this way as Town and get mislynched before.

Ur extremely defensive for a very minor thing I said

More weird Datisi posts.

Salamence you've done nothing but take cheap shots at me all game, and been treating me incredibly unfair. If ur town I see absolutely no reason for you not to try and sort me properly instead of these under-the-belt takes you are having.

If ur scum, by all means keep going. Better kill me tonight then tho.

getting tunnely like you did here

oh i'm about to get extremely tunnely in this game alright

So that means I feel youre gamethrowing by voting someone who isnt getting lynched in 27 hours

i'm hoping this gets proven wrong in the next 12 hours

More sally aggression.

much better off lynching Flavor or Salam or Amrun

All town, for note.

That’s a shitty lynch

i think all three of DDL/Creature/GL lynches are bad

Also all town, interesting enough. Not a lot of scum motivation for this post.

caught up on D2

Menal and SS feel most genuine to me

DDL v Amrun is what I'm gonna look into next

also i'm not particularly fond of Datisi posting this game

yoink

Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre

She's not of the fencesitting type and this post is yuck

More weird Datisi shit. No mention of alim townread, or any DW read.

Yeah i'm just gonna say it out loud i don't care about fallout here, really

Datisi, you think my 'shading' of you was bad, but you questioned my motivation for Amrun, and didn't follow up on it. You think DDL is scummy I guess, and you think he's potentially theatring with Menal of all players? How can you honestly be trying to sort DDL if ur not saying Amrun in the same sentence?

Instead you go with the shading/fencesitty type of approach on what I think is one of the towniest slots in the game (Menal).

I don't like it.

More weird Datisi shit, menal TR

what I also think is weird having reflected on it more is DDL townreading Menalque, like, this dude was calling you scum all D1 and trying to get you lynched and you aren't suspicious of him in the slightest? really? I suggest I might switch to DDL and he decides to call me out while making no mention of Menalque?

I legit lol’d when I read this. So I just went and ISO’d DDL again and menal doesn’t even make an appearance in the entire ISO with the exception of one offhand comment that DDL likes him. It does seem extremely unrealistic to barely mention someone who’s been calling for your blood like two game days straight.

I like this. It's indeed completely unnatural for town to stay that quiet about a slot pushing you this way. Reminds a lot about myself as scum who tries to ignore rather then engage.

VOTE: DDL

thanks for calling out

L-1

Intent I suppose

Basically the only interaction with DW all game.

I want to do dog watch. I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not

Yes sure do dogwatch

It's more math. I had this list, i think if amrun is scum, then SS or dogwatch are partners. Then through the exchange I ruled out SS amrun partners, so that leaves DW. But DW is independently scummy too

why is DW scum?

Soft defense of DW.

between 691 and 702 amrun did not post

you had a townread on her

but then you say she hasn't been playing her towngame

Whattup with that, Doc?

like this progression is clear evidence of reevaluation idk what more is there to it

you were townreading amrun

nothing happened

then you started scumreading amrun

that's not simply revalution

that's you townreading based off of something, but then scumreading that player for the *same* reasons

In hindsight, I may have been pocketed here.

i'm gonna have to shotgun reads for now

i'm mostly caught up actually

my main townread is alim

if i had a gun right now i'd be shooting gamma

extremely sceptical that scum didn't bother to kill of either (menal/datisi), which are prime targets for scum (to target) imo

amrun is likely town, my reasoning being I feel extremely confident that scum would want a lynch on me today, and amrun has not been setting that up, at all

And now, first mention of alim town EVER in Icon’s ISO.

gamma - DW - Amrun - mena - datisi - Amrun - Ico

And DW is somehow next?! For why?!

Menl is openwolfing here wtf

And then wut

yeah i'm definitely townreading alim

reads very much like sorting the game, is confident about the upcoming claim, has been to the point, and having the whole game in mind

is anybody scumreading alim?

I pushed a Ico on the alim TR which I didn’t track. He said he’d towncase him later but never did, actually declined when I asked.

I do not understand these alimdia townreads

i'm fully willing to towncase alim AFTER we have a claimed gun

Except then he said no.

Icon
If your solve is DW/mena/gamma

That means me/you/amrun/alim town
WHO IS THE FUCKING GUN

holy shit

fml

It did take him too long to “realize” gamma was gun. I was telling him and it was fairly obvious.

Also his solves really didn’t follow with his reads from the rest of the game. Re-evaluating is ok (and expected) but I don’t like almost total lack of mention of DW except as a compromise lynch here.

I really don't think that scum!mena is interested in treating my slot as 'could be town' after our engagement

He had the position to hard-scumread me back then and nobody would blink about it, but he didn't

And if most or all of the flipped town had Amrun as top scum, they are all shouting at us from the grave rn. At least it will be a shared defeat then if it comes to that. Still barring my checkup tomorrow wrt to the other flipped town, but scum!mena also has nothing to gain by pointing us towards dead town players reads, unless he thinks that wins him his final mislynch, which means EVERY SINGLE TOWN WAS WRONG, and scum just win at that point

Ok

Icon turned up and shitpushed me (and you, which is making me think you have negative partner equity)

menal

why would I come into today pushing you if the scumteam has gamma singled out as the mislynch?

I pushed you prior to massclaim

Interesting post.


Conclusion:

I still think there wasn’t much scum benefit to pushing sally the way Icon did. However, in read it again, sally was such a little fuckhead that scum Icon may not have cared and the genuineness I read honestly could have come from scum.

Ico/Datisi seems an almost impossible team, and Ico/menal fairly unlikely, but Ico/dw/alim is really viable.

My heart still wants to TR Ico though :c

[Iconeum]

their reversal on my slot makes no sense and i don't get it

well i just kinda case amrun's reversal on my slot

it's a lot of quotes you might think, but it's actually just a couple ico!locktown reads, followed by a single scumcasing post on me

[Datisi]

amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum,

AaronFrost

, Dogwatch,

GuiltyLion

,

Creature

4 uncomfirmed people on the Amrun wagon at its peak - if Amrun is scum then at least one partner was bussing

amrun [4] - Datisi, Iconeum,

GuiltyLion

,

Creature

GuiltyLion

[5] -

texcat

, Amrun,

AaronFrost

,

Salamence20

, Dogwatch

next VC
DW jumped ship

amrun [5] - Datisi, Iconeum,

GuiltyLion

,

Creature

,

DrDolittle

GuiltyLion

[6] -

texcat

, Amrun,

AaronFrost

,

Salamence20

, Dogwatch, alimdia

next VC

Amrun/alim/DW?
lmao probably not
fuck i don't know

[Iconeum]

yeah well i also *just* cased what you are writing here

how DW was overexplaining his jumping off of that possible bus?

[Iconeum]

VoteCount 1.3

Salamence20 [1] - DrDolittle
amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum, AaronFrost, Dogwatch, GuiltyLion, Creature
Something_Smart [1] - alimdia
Dogwatch [1] - Salamence20
GuiltyLion [2] - texcat, Amrun

Not Voting [2]

- Something_Smart, Pretentious

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-11 13:35:31)

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

Ico's final solve

DW/amrum/alim

Menal pushed amrun very heavily, but it were town slots who deflated it at that time
This particular quote feels overly explained for an unvote, and seems like DW was happy to get off of the bus when it got to L-1 rather quickly
Amrun was hardcore townreading me and I think is now seeing that it can get me as a mislynch.
Alim comes into the team because I think Datisi and Menal are town.
If I'm wrong on Alim, then it's Datisi.

This is lit what you just said