Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 1.27

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, bob3141

Eddie Cane (3) -

popsofctown, Krazy, pisskop

Pine (3) -

Hectic, OkaPoka, Nancy Drew 39

DrDolittle (1) -

Titus

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Prodding NaCl.

[popsofctown]

Ok, thank you for lining things up more.
I feel like I've explained this before, but to me it was scummy when Amrun said "I don't like this wagon, it has a bad comp", and then a very short time later said, "I would be willing to vote the NaCl wagon." I agree that you can scumread multiple people at the same time, but she didn't make me convinced that she scumread NaCl (I don't remember her casing him, at all). My suspicion she was starting to feel bad about the recent wagon, which she would have had more ownership and responsibility for greenflipping, and wanted to quickly identify other wagons she could be on without taking the blame for, Pine's, and then possibly NaCl's. I didn't mind at all that she felt willing to kill both Pine and NaCl, I didn't mind her expressing willingness to vote a wagon she hadn't moved to. I minded that her comfort with the NaCl wagon made her reason for abandoning the previous wagon seem like a fib. It's a somewhat foreign space because I'm more comfortable voting alongside a scumread than most player (I Can Be Wrong) but it seemed like a mismatch to me.

As for Amrun allowing Hectic to live, my read of the situation was that Amrun felt that Hectic wagon would be an unpopular event D2 and hopped off of it. I don't see the two as buddies.

Fourth point, main reason I didn't spend lots of time probing Amrun is to avoid pulling focus away from Eddie too much, who was a stronger read. I only wanted people to be thinking her progression D2 if I wasn't there for D2, I didn't really prefer her as a lynch over Eddie, so why canvas for votes? There might have been some omgus too, because Amrun had been attacking me all game in ways I found frustrating, so like. It has been hard to want to think anything positive about her before Ali lister her as a townread.

Fifth point, I think the post mistake is weakly alignment indicative for everyone. But everyone seems to disagree with me and I've tempered my enthusiasm because at least some of these people have to be town. I tend to think it is easier to townread groups or wagon groups as town than scum because you're townreads are fake and it's harder to remember fake things.


Titus I am very much shooting from the hip on, it's not a super strong read. But as an example, I feel like with Titus's personality when momentum is slow, she will want to craft and invent her own reads, and when momentum is fast, she's excited to keep it going and sheep something that looks ok to her. This game hasn't fully matched that pattern sometimes.

[Pine]

Okay, I'm back from taking a break from this game. It's top priority for this evening, but damn, you all have doubled the size in the last 2-3 days.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m thinking Pops may be town now.

[Krazy]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

[Pine]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

[Hectic]

Woah. Looking forward to the catchup.

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

[Amrun]

@pops: does someone need to case to have a scumread?

[Krazy]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

That progression from 2126 tho

[popsofctown]

I don't want to argue with you Amrun.
Whatever point you are making I concede the point.
I was explaining a past thought process to Bob because he asked me nicely not canvassing Amrun votes.

[Pine]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

Last I checked, Pops was Town and Krazy was scum, so I'm on board for 50% of that.

I'm setting aside a couple of hours after dinner (cooking now) so we'll see after that.

[NaCl]

Really sorry about just vanishing, everyone. I ran into some RL stuff I needed to deal with.

If you are insinuating that it was a townslip, why did you ask the question underlined there?

So my first thought when I say that post was that it was a townslip, but I asked the question so I could get clarification for how Nancy actually came to the incorrect assumption there were 2 mafia, to check for a possible fabrication of a townslip. I'm pretty sure it's a townslip, but do you want to answer this, Nancy?

@NaCi, why in 1544 did Hectic’s response in 1435 ping you? Yes, while I initially did misinterpret his post as shade, it clearly wasn’t, so I really don’t understand your issue with it and why it would negatively affect your read on Hectic.

The question felt bad because it's not something that would ever get an answer that would prove something one way or the other. Hectic, I know that you'd say that, but I was asking why you'd ask it in such a way. Because both anyone, town or scum would just realize (or pretend) that they were handling the setup incorrectly and pointing out that felt like it was weakly shading things to be a scumslip. Also, just pointing out the slip beforehand makes it harder to get an answer that is actually useful.

I disagree with her read on Eddie. I think she was too quick to go after him over revealing the neighbourhood. I think it's far more likely that Eddie was irritated and revealed it rather than him being too careless and letting it slip. I don't think it's a very good reason to be townreading her and scumreading Eddie.

I do completely agree with her reasoning there though, because I have personal experience of catching scum using that exact same logic where being right is more important than them over figuring out alignments, Eddie's tone and nature this game has reeked of town otherwise though.
Regarding Pops, I initially read her outrage as genuine, but it is the first time I've ever seen such a strong reaction from her, but I've played with town and scum her, so I don't know if that's AI for her. If someone could weigh in on that.

I don't see how you found that Eddie did that because he wanted to be right. Like there is no incentive to reveal it for either scum or town and it felt like more of a natural reaction to me. Although I'm not really feeling my SR on you anymore, it probably just stuck out due to recency.

Now we have the hectic wagon. His alignment isnt known yet but we have 2 conditions. One he is scum and one he is town.

Now what woudl teh comp of both wagons be in each condition

If he is town one of:

Pine, pisskop, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, OkaPoka, titus, elsa

is almost certianly scum.

But if he is scum would a wagon of that size really be all town this early. So just as likely that atleast one is scum

But would more be one one or the other and more importantly which one.

Um, yes, but that wagon plus Hectic is more than half the players. Do you think that there would be more than 1 scum on there if Hectic is town?

Pretty sure Bob is town.

Also bob is probably town.

@Amrun, @Hectic,
Are this due to Bob's most recent posts (well at that time)? Because to me it felt like he put up a bunch of wagons and didn't actually comment on anything, then said at least one person out of this huge wagon is scum. I was liking him more beforehand, but those posts felt like they were a whole bunch of dry, empty bread in disguise.

I actually have no idea what I could possibly do to rerail the game though. Eddie is just openly admitting to wagoning a player he thinks is less likely to flip scum, in a way the conspicuously aligns with not wanting his neighbor to actually become dead and incriminate him and/or not wanting to continue a dialogue with that neighbor when he's currently winning public opinion and only has it to lose. Like he can clearly just do what he wants now. Ali told me in discord something about how e catches scum that'd I'd never heard before, e said, "you often see with scum, spending a certain amount of time acting a certain way [this is paraphrase by the way even though I used the quote character, no banns Micc], doing the things that would get them townread, trying really hard. Then they get townread. And there is this flick of the switch where they realize they don't have to do it anymore. And they change and do the things they want to do. That's when you can catch them." E said he saw Dannflor doing that. The thing Ali hasn't exactly explained to me is how you work with that if you didn't roll vig, because Dannflor was never actually lynched. So now I'm just full of despair. I think Eddie may have already endgamed the 15p.

Point 1 (to the thread)

This is not a townie wall of words. Remotely.

Point 2 (to Pops)

It is my game, but I have 3 town voices I can dialogue with. I made the judgment call to place my vote on Krazy, factoring in their stated confidence vs my own. If that read ends up being wrong, I will be at fault, not them; part of my read is considering their reads. I think a lot of what forum players miss is that mafia is a

team game

, not you + a bunch of fuckos you have to persuade vs some scum. This is just posturing on your part.

I’m kind of not liking how Pops has been ignoring evidence that supports team reads are believable. Like I totally believe your team said exactly what you said they did and it totally lines up with what I’d expect from them thinking along a townie mindset.

Another reason why I believe Titus is town here, because I freaking know Math.

I disagree very strongly on this, I think team reads are entirely NAI. Anyone can choose to withhold their role pm (or lie about it) from their teammates and have them be thinking they're a different role from what they actually are.

Please don't call me "kid" or any other noun that doesn't describe me.

I think my vote is on Amrun right now, it'd be about the same as if it was on Eddie. Moving it doesn't matter, people changing their minds would matter more than the integers next to the names.

Why is Amrun scum?

Amrun is willing to lynch basically anybody. I can't remember a time she's come to this thread and said anything in the vein of "X seems like the hot wagon right now, but Y has higher probability to flip scum and serves my wincon and we should move to it".

I've seen players like Titus have that attitude as town and that's probably the kind of Titus we have here, but my interpretation of her timings and justifications leans towards this being the scummy wine-in-front interest in wagons that well slide into hammer quickly and get the first mislynch before this game gets re-paradigmed to have some scum in the consensus scumreads.

Amrun is down for every wagon, even ones that seem diametrically opposed in various ways, never convinces me that she's solving with the way she discusses her reads, and I still think the typo thing is at least a little scummy.

Her entire body of play seems like sheep scum very happy with the way this day is going to me.

If pops flips scum Amrun is a very strong townread for me. I don't see them going after each other like that as S/S. But I otherwise agree with the case, I do have the same feeling.

I'm keeping this here but I first did a vote on pops and then changed my mind on it. I still agree with it but I need the part below answered before I decide to vote first.

I'm feeling a bit more confident in things. (Vote: Pops I changed my mind on) even if she's not scum this is an informative wagon, but her posts are feeling more and more like scum-pops to me.
If pops flips scum, then Hectic is a likely partner. Amrun is likely town, Eddie certainly town.
If pops flips town, then Amrun is likely scum. Hectic is probably town.

I said he would endgame me, and he quoted me saying he would endgame me and said "get fucked kid"

that is bragging about endgaming me

I think this is the most important post in the thread. Pops, Eddie, can you both tell me which one of Pops's posts in this thread was the next one she made after this was said in your hood? (I'm pretty sure this is within the rules but someone please stop this otherwise).

Also, the Pine wagon is bad because Pine's town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

Last I checked, Pops was Town and Krazy was scum, so I'm on board for 50% of that.

I'm setting aside a couple of hours after dinner (cooking now) so we'll see after that.

What is Mastina saying? I will know immediately if her reads are genuine or bs.

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

That progression from 2126 tho

Progression? You mean me pushing my top 2 kills to a town lean?

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

[Krazy]

You suddenly talking to your null/poe6 like you now are sure he's town from your pov.

But yeah you don't talk to anyone like you're uninformed of their alignment and don't have an agenda so I don't know why you'd talk to pine differently I guess

[Krazy]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

[Eddie Cane]

are you guys actually still calling krazy town? its actually appalling how far this site has fallen

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Sure. I will reply to this because I kind of want to soapbox about it anyways.

You are playing like a fucking moron if you do not tell your team your role pm. They are your team. They are there to help, coach, advise, whatever. That's the whole point of TEAM mafia, this isn't like MU champs where you play individually. Not telling them your team limits their ability to help you. The advantage is, what, they can give you "genuine townie reads"? In exchange for not getting their support about kill decisions, PR reads, thread decisions, directions to push, and still getting advice about who to push. And whatever else you ask. I dunno, I haven't had a teammate roll scum in team mafia for the second year in a row so I haven't had to experience it, but yea. The first thing I did in my chat was get pinged saying they got their roles, I checked MS, Micc had sent mine, I screenshotted it to them and bitched about being town in such an easy setup for scum. There was no "wait, what if I tell them I'm town and get their reads to pocket people" or other similar stupid ass thought process.

Ignoring that

, it is not scummy to philosophically disagree. It is scummy to push this as an "obvious scum post" when its clearly a fucking theory post which scum rarely lie about anyways. You are so fucking lucky NSG and Hito do not have a voice in this game and I don't care to case you.

[Amrun]

I don't want to argue with you Amrun.
Whatever point you are making I concede the point.
I was explaining a past thought process to Bob because he asked me nicely not canvassing Amrun votes.

How can I deepen or change my read of you if you refuse to engage?

I just completely reversed my reads in LyLo. I’m not afraid to be wrong.

[Eddie Cane]

and i would not be shocked if all 3 were in pine / elsa / piss / ddl / pops / krazy

so vote pine

Why would I vote somebody I town lean over somebody I scum read who has a bigger wagon?

pine has town points

ddl has no points. more of a spectator if anything

but i don't really mean to discuss my "reads". i'm only posting that because enough people have asked, and i should make it clear why i'm not joining either major wagon despite strongly believing voting people is how you kill scum

{Amrun, NaCl, Nancy, Oka, SS, Titus} - will not vote today
{Pine, Pisskop, bob, Hectic} - don't really want to vote today
{elsa, ddl} - if needed would policy vote today
{krazy, pops} - want to vote today


is this a good enough reads list?

I have never once put Pine as below town lean this game, I don't think. Helps that my teammates both town read him stronger than I do by a margin. Keep pushing your narrative though.

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

Last I checked, Pops was Town and Krazy was scum, so I'm on board for 50% of that.

I'm setting aside a couple of hours after dinner (cooking now) so we'll see after that.

I've wanted to kill Krazy slightly more than Pops for a while. But I am not putting in the legwork, and literally not one person would vote it with me, and if Pops is town she's an honorary fourth scum anyways so I don't really care. I do not agree Pops is being remotely townie, but I do agree she is slightly less scummy than Krazy (who is trending further down while Pops is trending very slightly up).

[Krazy]

LOL

[Eddie Cane]

LOL