TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Alisae]

his teeth are like fangs!

[ofrhz]

You know ofrhz said the same thing I did but in different words right

You can say this about any question that someone makes. You tired everything you could.

No, I actually did have the same interpretation as jjh.

I have this feeling you guys were just talking past each other in this conversation, but I'm not sure how to clarify things up.

But like, from largely a spectator's point of view (me), it wasn't very clear what reads you were expecting jjh to reconsider. So it makes sense to me that he didn't reconsider his reads in spite of you guys back-and-forthing for an hour.

[ofrhz]

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

I agree with Reundo and can see Alisae but not Menalque and Chemist. Can you elaborate?

I'm not sold on Jingle town, and I don't think 1619 really elucidated that read by much.

[Alisae]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[hitogoroshi]

it’s not I’m 15

jesus christ. I started playing pre-ms so I have been playing mafia almost as long as you have been anything. the years start coming and they simply do not stop coming

Also do you have any thoughts on NSG's reads? I got her to give reads based on people requesting it and it would be a slap on the face for her if people just ignored it.

I still got an open one to ya:

Once again: why vote me when I was your mastina greenflip suspicion, when you (presumably) think mastina is very likely to flip red?

Also here, have some bonus questions to drive engagement: do you disagree with my assessment above that Alisae's reaction (1341 and the huge spew that followed) was driven by guilt for non-cooperation vs. some more scummy motivation? What do you think was alisae-scum's thought process for eir stuff just now?

I also desperately need to hear how NSG got locktown for ofr from ofr pretty brazenly tooting around without any sorta scumread on anything. Especially with menalque in the scumpool.

re: mena case on ofr - I guess it' just recency bias, but ofr

lately

has been pretty fucking cursed, right?

re: Kerset - I'm with pops in that the AtE seems to be kind of genuine (also insufferable but that goes without saying). But it's also like, if this is what we're getting out of Kerset it's not like we could ever lock in a REALLY sure read, right? At least there are enough good options today I'm not that uncomfortable punting this, but we can't punt forever and I have no idea what's gonna change. tbh I'm kinda just hoping that's where role power goes.

like I don't really care about that play the game

I'm asking about this because I think NSG has a higher tolerance for what actually construes mistreatment than this

fucking cosigned

cutting arbitrarily for length + so ali knows I'm here

[ofrhz]

I'm cursed?

[Bitmap]

This is still from NSG.
------------------

@JJH

I wanted to let you know that I've thought long and hard about your slot and they might all seem contradictory, but bear with me.

I want to start at the very end at my conclusion and work backwards, since that direction will set a more precise image of what I'm actually thinking than the reverse. I just want to make it apparent that I think you're likely to be town. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start from the top going through and reading the game. I had your slot as null for the longest time now through the entire way through. I started commentating to RC that I'd have your slot as town due to what I've been hearing about your scum game improving, and your own remarks about how you can hyper post and copy your town meta for the first day. This is on an analytical level. On a purely gut level, I believe you're town. I do not believe that your position in this game is from a scum one, and I don't know how much I can really elaborate or justify. (However, I indeed think that Alisae's stream of posts in regards to GreyICE and the posts he made about your meta shows that you're more likely to be town, so that's a piece of evidence there. Just like I said, this is somewhat contradictory.)

This has put me in an unfortunate position where I think you're town, however you're not in a really good position to work with our team. I also believe that scum are taking advantage of you (this is a more recent development but I don't plan to go in depth now but possibly later).

------------------
This is the first half, going to continue paraphrasing.

@hito: I'll try to get to it but more focused on finishing the paraphrasing tonight.

[ofrhz]

jjh, mastina, klick, chemist, mena
shadoweh
hito, kerset
jingle
alisae, bitmap
reundo

I'm only going to bother elaborating on reads that I think have changed. I can elaborate on others upon request.

jjh - He's definitely valid in saying posts like 1037 have just been ignored. I think he's done his due diligence on his Bitmap scumread by following up on reading Bitmap's past games and trying to engage people with content from that game. I also just generally like how he's been engaging otherwise.

kerset - I'm still leaning town here mostly based off of looking at his past scumgame and comparing it to his ISO here. I actually liked how he was trying to test if jjh would reconsider if his reads were wrong, even though the test kind of fell flat and the point didn't come across clearly. I did consider that he could be receiving some heavy handed coaching, but Kerset has such a unique writing style that I don't think anyone is ghostwriting his posts, and the real-time interactions with jjh made me doubt that even further.

alisae - eir reads seem to wildly fluctuate and I think I'm having a hard time getting past that. on the flip side, e sounds pretty different tonewise from the only (scum)game I've seen eim in; e seems like an entirely different person here. I've been meaning to read some of eir other games since I think it'd be illuminating to see what is just eir playstyle but haven't gotten to it yet.

bitmap - I've generally struggled with placing bitmap this entire game, which has caused a bit of a mental block. I have them low because I've generally been agreeing with jjh's pushes here. Recent NSG contributions have me doubting this read a little bit though.

reundo - I feel like if you replace in and drop a readslist without explanation like that, the expectation is that you will be around to talk to people about it? Also his scumreads are me and two people I feel pretty strongly are town.

VOTE: reundo

[Alisae]

what did you read

[Bitmap]

I started commentating to RC that I'd have your slot as town except what I've been hearing about your scum game improving

Fixed.

[ofrhz]

what did you read

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79971

I was playing with Enigma who was in that game

[Alisae]

I was trolling in that game ofc I was a different person

[Alisae]

I HATE multiball

[jjh927]

Ofhrz, didn't you make a point about how scum kerset forgets to even vote

[ofrhz]

Yeah but he is voting...?

[Bitmap]

More from NSG
----------

@jjh:

I really hope and would be appreciative if you'd consider working with your teammates more or even at the very least providing more opportunities for skitter and the rest of your team mafia team to talk with my team. I know this request is seemingly self-serving, however last team mafia I was in a situation just like bitmap is in now. Ranmaru made things really hard and nearly impossible for us to lynch scum the day we managed to lynch scum, even though despite the fact that Almost50 and his team mafia team was suggesting to him that I was town. At that time, I was asking him the same thing I'm asking you right now. For clarity sake, I'm absolutely not asking you to just abandon your reads or sheep skitter. I hope and wish that you townread bitmap, yes, however more than anything I want to lynch scum today, and this would be a lot easier I think if our team mafia teams can work together.

Just like I've said before, I think that your thought process in 1584 is fairly dangeroud but I plan to go more into this later. In my opinion, it's a bad idea to townblock people just on the basis that they agree with you and think that Alisae is scum who is taking advantage of that (I will go into a bit of theory on scum Alisae, but my main notion is that it doesn't depend on you agreeing with me - in my opinion it's still not a good idea to townread people just on the notion that they agree with you). In my personal opinion the timing of how Alisae reads switch for both you and Bitmap fits into the scum agenda of aligning with / pocketing a town player who is townreading people who agree with eim but then switching to going against someone (bitmap) who has a team that scumreads Alisae. That last sentence was very badly constructed so I'll say it again but in a better and different way: the way Alisae switched eis read on both bitmap and you at close times resembles very much to me someone who is "powerwolfing", and trying to get back into being read in the townblock while demonstrating how e is trying to go against the team that scum reads him.

(Just to be clear and just saying this as a reminder, I have before scumread Alisae before the whole bitmap thing happened, and remember, that's when Ali's read on bitmap switched, after I said my scumread).

-----

There's 2 more NSG posts and I might just post them tomorrow.

[ofrhz]

Yeah but he is voting...?

Ofhrz, didn't you make a point about how scum kerset forgets to even vote

Oh you’re saying you’d expect kerset to be voting you or something?

[Bitmap]

That last sentence was very badly constructed so I'll say it again but in a better and different way: the way Alisae switched eis read on both bitmap and you at close times resembles very much to me someone who is "powerwolfing", and trying to get back into being read in the townblock while demonstrating how e is trying to go against the team that scum reads him.

Going to fix this for NSG, it's more about how it's self serving in how it's pushing against a team that scumreads eim.

[hitogoroshi]

RC wants to add something.

He said that him and NSG are here just to lynch scum and not have dank/spicy reads. If you think the read we posted is correct, vote with us.

why does NSG say vote "with us" when your vote is on me who she had no thoughts on either way. It must have been a source of friction, her havin me null when RC has me lockscum and I'm your number 2-3 - so it seems that NSG would be especially keen to notice that you're voting against her suspicions.

I'm cursed?

This post is ISO 71. Unless you count "I agree with reundo" (and I fuckin' don't!) the last time you have intimated that someone might have a non-town alignment is 834, ISO 47. The last time you voted was me 765, ISO 44, and you pretty quickly softened your stance by clarifying you liked menals reason to townread me in 825, ISO 46. You've managed to ninja me finnaalllly breaking this curse, but only on the fucking default ass reundo wagon for a really arbitrary reason and a totally objective reason (which is something that generally scumbolinas seek out).

Also let's fucking think about this read list for a hot second:

jjh, mastina, klick, chemist, mena
shadoweh
hito, kerset
jingle
alisae, bitmap
reundo

You think that reundo is scum, but ALSO that Alisae is as well? And you have Alisae and bitmap *together* in the scum tier? who the hell do you think reundo is partners with here? no thoughts on shadoweh not listening to your reason to unvote me, or me keeping a bead on her so long? Just L-2 on the low-hanging fruit while making it all sound like your own idea.

Like damn I was gonna make a post to the effect of "reundo is just scum but I wish we would have pretended not to notice a little longer to force another round of commitments out of folks over the weekend", but god I can't even get excited about voting on the same place as this. I guess it could just a clumsy bus too - actually maybe bus is even more likely because ofrhz just wants to be on and isn't expecting to be grilled because she knows its a red flip or something? But my goodness these reads feel just fake as all hell

UNVOTE: Shadoweh
VOTE: ofrhz

Ali am I insane for this? I mean push come to shove I think that all of {ofrhz, Bitmap, Shadoweh, reundo} are fine lynches, kerset a distant fifth mostly as a PL. But like, just looking at the cohesive beliefs that go in to reads, doesn't it seem weird that ofrhz can TR so many people who have you lock without inheriting that lock at all? And that she loves everyone who hates Kerset but Kerset himself leans town?

(Klick, you are involved in a long ongoing chain of history. Please inform Cephrir that I am, once again, invoking cohesion tell and ask him if we can just acknowledge it works from the jump this time instead of waiting to catch the person later some other way )

do not interpret this as me liking Shadoweh any more she is getting away with fucking murder and no one cares but me. Also Shadoweh 1537 pretty much acknowledges I am town, lmao. but I feel like it's a lot more brazen how artificial ofrhz's reads here with how little she actually seems to care what her TRs think. and ofrhz <--> Shadoweh is buddy looking enough one red means snap to the other so happy to see if this one is more obvious to you nerds

[Alisae]

More from NSG
----------

@jjh:

I really hope and would be appreciative if you'd consider working with your teammates more or even at the very least providing more opportunities for skitter and the rest of your team mafia team to talk with my team. I know this request is seemingly self-serving, however last team mafia I was in a situation just like bitmap is in now. Ranmaru made things really hard and nearly impossible for us to lynch scum the day we managed to lynch scum, even though despite the fact that Almost50 and his team mafia team was suggesting to him that I was town. At that time, I was asking him the same thing I'm asking you right now. For clarity sake, I'm absolutely not asking you to just abandon your reads or sheep skitter. I hope and wish that you townread bitmap, yes, however more than anything I want to lynch scum today, and this would be a lot easier I think if our team mafia teams can work together.

Just like I've said before, I think that your thought process in 1584 is fairly dangeroud but I plan to go more into this later. In my opinion, it's a bad idea to townblock people just on the basis that they agree with you and think that Alisae is scum who is taking advantage of that (I will go into a bit of theory on scum Alisae, but my main notion is that it doesn't depend on you agreeing with me - in my opinion it's still not a good idea to townread people just on the notion that they agree with you). In my personal opinion the timing of how Alisae reads switch for both you and Bitmap fits into the scum agenda of aligning with / pocketing a town player who is townreading people who agree with eim but then switching to going against someone (bitmap) who has a team that scumreads Alisae. That last sentence was very badly constructed so I'll say it again but in a better and different way: the way Alisae switched eis read on both bitmap and you at close times resembles very much to me someone who is "powerwolfing", and trying to get back into being read in the townblock while demonstrating how e is trying to go against the team that scum reads him.

(Just to be clear and just saying this as a reminder, I have before scumread Alisae before the whole bitmap thing happened, and remember, that's when Ali's read on bitmap switched, after I said my scumread).

-----

There's 2 more NSG posts and I might just post them tomorrow.

no u

[Bitmap]

I feel like no one gives a shit about my posts so we're going to just play as a team in everything.

[Bitmap]

RC wants to add something.

He said that him and NSG are here just to lynch scum and not have dank/spicy reads. If you think the read we posted is correct, vote with us.

why does NSG say vote "with us" when your vote is on me who she had no thoughts on either way. It must have been a source of friction, her havin me null when RC has me lockscum and I'm your number 2-3 - so it seems that NSG would be especially keen to notice that you're voting against her suspicions.

The quote clearly states that "RC wants to add something"

[jjh927]

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

First vote. Not much more to say.

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

Second vote. Immediately followed the posting of a readslist which you asked for. On close examination, I think there might be something fucky going on with the timings on when that was posted. There was 1 minute and 21 seconds between Kerset's previous post and that readslist, provided on request for his top scumread. I don't know how long anyone else takes to make readslists but that seems inordinately fast. And then of course he changes his vote because he has to keep up with his reads. Which are awfully conveniently aligned with the emerging ofrhz wagon.

Spoiler: Exhibit 2a: Aforementioned Readslist

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Spoiler: Exhibit 2b: Votecount at the time

Votecount 1.08
Klick (4): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi, mastina ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Jingle Shadoweh (2): Kerset, Bitmap hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Note: Jingle is bolded as he moved his vote to ofrhz between the votecount being posted and Kerset's vote.

VOTE: mastina

This was Kerset's last vote. I think it's interesting that it didn't get shifted to me at any point in the little back and forth we had.

Spoiler: Exhibit 3a: Votecount at the time

Votecount 1.13
hitogoroshi (3): Shadoweh, Klick, ofrhz mastina (3): Jingle, Bitmap, Alisae Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 Gamma Emerald (2): Menalque, Chemist1422 ofrhz (1): Kerset Shadoweh (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

[Alisae]

You think that reundo is scum, but ALSO that Alisae is as well? And you have Alisae and bitmap *together* in the scum tier? who the hell do you think reundo is partners with here?

I feel like this would be town indicative

[jjh927]

Bitmap, I am reading the posts, for what it is worth

Does NSG have anything to say about Kerset