TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[ofrhz]

Maybe Kerset is scum after all

[ofrhz]

Hi to, I see your scum case and I’ll respond to it when I’m at a computer

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

First vote. Not much more to say.

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

Second vote. Immediately followed the posting of a readslist which you asked for. On close examination, I think there might be something fucky going on with the timings on when that was posted. There was 1 minute and 21 seconds between Kerset's previous post and that readslist, provided on request for his top scumread. I don't know how long anyone else takes to make readslists but that seems inordinately fast. And then of course he changes his vote because he has to keep up with his reads. Which are awfully conveniently aligned with the emerging ofrhz wagon.

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Votecount 1.08
Klick (4): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi, mastina ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Jingle Shadoweh (2): Kerset, Bitmap hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Note: Jingle is bolded as he moved his vote to ofrhz between the votecount being posted and Kerset's vote.

VOTE: mastina

This was Kerset's last vote. I think it's interesting that it didn't get shifted to me at any point in the little back and forth we had.

Votecount 1.13
hitogoroshi (3): Shadoweh, Klick, ofrhz mastina (3): Jingle, Bitmap, Alisae Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 Gamma Emerald (2): Menalque, Chemist1422 ofrhz (1): Kerset Shadoweh (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Prove of nothing. Really, you are just tryharding to find evidence and result in nothing. I vote the best option and don't move until i find better one. You are the one who find me scum, i find you dummyscummy. Mastina is still top scum, no matter her break or how hard you try to distract me from her. So what that i posted my readlist 1 minute and 21 seconds after previous post? I was typing reply to both klick and ofrhz at the same time, because they both required me to reread things. What is it indicative of?

[Kerset]

Is mastina scum or is jjh scum? Or are they both scum?

Ask pengiun. For me the best bet is mastina.

[Kerset]

Spoiler:

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

you mean this right? why is this scum!indicative for mastina?

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset Bitmap
Hito Klick
GE jjh ofhrz
mastina jingle

this is pretty close to my list

I'd swap Kerset and klick and probably ofrhz and jingle

Let’s start here

separating it into 5 tiers gives something like
{Chemist, Ali, Shadoweh, Klick}
{Mena, Kerset, Bit}
{Hito, jjh, jingle}
{GE (Reundo), mastina}
{ofrhz}

this is what I’m gonna start working from with the top line being the only confident ones

Okay so like why is she in the tier below mastina and reundo?

{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}

Wait I thought you were SRing mastina? Also why is klick up at top and chemboi isn’t?

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

Yes

[bitmap]
[Kerset, Klick, Shadoweh]
[Reundo, Jingle, ofrhz, Mena, Alisae, Chemist] <- Null
[hito, jj]
[mastina]

I’m p sure I’ve seen something about the mastina and jjh thing in your iso

Can you explain why your town reads are up out of null for me?

Mena you took your time to gather thoughts about mastina but never gave option about her. She was relevant enough to be topic of discussion but not for option. Why did you skip it?

[Kerset]

As for Reundo feel free to lynch him. I feel no empathy for lurkers.

[Chemist1422]

I’d prefer to wait for a claim tbh

[Reundo]

OK, so first things first, I'm really sorry about my lack of activity. I didn't anticipate my schedule being so jam-packed when I signed up for this.

Regarding my experience: I've played a handful of games around my join date and am just now starting to pick up mafia again after taking a break for a year (this has only been my second game over the past two months). This is also the first game I replaced into, and I underestimated how long it would take to both read through a ~50 page game and also retain what I've read long enough to form coherent thoughts about it. My teammates also hadn't read my game, so I've pretty much been playing this game solo as well. I think trying to take it all in at one night was just a bad idea overall and I wish I did something more productive with my time.

I've skimmed through the last couple of pages but haven't had the time to read most of it in-depth. The case on me as I understand it is Gamma lurking + my reads list, which on one hand I do get why my slot is being scum-read and don't think it's entirely unjustified just looking at my slot objectively but on the other know that it's very easy for scum to jump onto considering they probably don't expect much resistance from me.

reundo - I feel like if you replace in and drop a readslist without explanation like that, the expectation is that you will be around to talk to people about it? Also his scumreads are me and two people I feel pretty strongly are town.

VOTE: reundo

While reading the game on catch-up, ofrhz never made a strong impression on me or did anything I thought was especially towny or couldn't come from scum, and this vote in particular comes off as very opportunistic FMPOV. First of all, I don't think you need much justification at all to jump on my wagon, but this justification is especially weird. It was very late for me when I posted that reads list and was planning to talk about it more in the morning (which unfortunately couldn't happen since I was pre-occupied with otehr stuff). Could I have waited until I was able to properly talk about it before posting it? Sure. Should I have? I dunno, maybe, but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But that doesn't strike me as something that's inheritantly scum-AI, and tacking on that I scum-read the people he town-reads just looks like him trying to pad on some extra justification w/o needing to further explain my alleged scum motivation, and it reads like he feels the need to pull out ~some~ reason for scum-reading me without trying to sound like a broken record, which is entirely unnecessary coming from town. Like, I get it, my slot's done absolutely nothing and my read list admittedly leaves a lot to be desired, you don't need some new ingenious reason for voting me. And if he really did think this way, why didn't he vote me when I actually posted it until, I dunno, after I'd already gotten four votes, or at the very least point it out then (especially since I'm apparently his top scum read now). I don't buy it.

VOTE: ofhrz

Running short on time, so quick shotguns explanation on my non-nulls for now: Bitmap's engagement pinged pretty towny and there wasn't much he posted that I disagreed with or at least couldn't see where he was coming from, Klick had a lot of the same thoughts around the same time regarding mastina and one of hito's posts so his thought process seemed pretty genuine and I also liked his engagement whenever he was around. Not too much for my town-leans but basically: Jingle I thought his engagement with mastina and subsequent read-flip was genuine even if I didn't agree with it, Mena I thought his aversion to being town-read so early was towny, Chemist had a few posts I liked but can't recall off the top of my head, admittedly my weakest town lean. I kind of forgot why I scum-leaned jjh and a quick glimpse through his ISO isn't helping, but that early reads list he posted where he had almost everyone but like 3 people as town seemed way too early for D1 and most of his hard-town didn't ping me anything close to that. Mastina I still can't really see as town -- her hard scum-read of Bitmap pinged me pretty early on and didn't really seem genuine, and a lot of her walls just read like fluff if you read them closely and most of the time she explains her reads with a lot of words that add up to next to nothing rather than explaining why she reads someone this way or that, and her case on Bitmap didn't do a good job explaining Bitmap's scum motive and mostly felt like pointing out posts she didn't like. I'd be willing to jump to her too atm.

And as for my claim: my role is Domokun, I don't have any abilities outside of my vote (so basically a VT). Sorry about the long wall and my lack of activity overall. The rest of today and tomorrow is a bit sketchy for me, but I'll try to make more time for this game if at all possible.

[Kerset]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

[Kerset]

In game like this you would rather get negative utility then blank VT.

[Bitmap]

@ofrhz

nsg wants u to unvote

[Chemist1422]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

[Chemist1422]

VOTE: Kerset

That post was super weird and feels like shade

[hitogoroshi]

You think that reundo is scum, but ALSO that Alisae is as well? And you have Alisae and bitmap *together* in the scum tier? who the hell do you think reundo is partners with here? no thoughts on shadoweh not listening to your reason to unvote me, or me keeping a bead on her so long? Just L-2 on the low-hanging fruit while making it all sound like your own idea.

your tone here suggests to me that you think those reads are bizarre. To me that comes up as a red flag because I don't see as scum why she imploys that strategy when its easier to just put the whole bloc as town

Have thoughts on this but it makes more sense to wait and hear what ofrhz says first. I think you're kinda missing what I think the suspicious thing is but if you are that means ofrhz might also, which means we could get an answer that's really revealing in either direction.

Gotta agree with ofr in that the Kerset views on mastina/jjh seem really underdetermined. If mastina is pocketing jjh so obviously that even a newbie would notice by now, then jjh is town! It kinda seems like you want to just quote individual posts you don't like in isolation, but the whole point is that peoples actions need to be interpreted in the context of how they interact with everyone else. Kerset, maybe a more productive way to have this discussion is - who are your strongest

townreads

, and what do you think they're missing on mastina? What do jjh/mastina flips makes you think about the other one?

As for Reundo feel free to lynch him. I feel no empathy for lurkers.

Even when this wagon was conjured up by basically your worst enemies? If I daycopped Reundo red right now, who are your picks for his buddies?

I am genuinely flabbergasted that Reundo could have ofr as his alpha scumread but both "person who went apeshit on ofr" and "person who passionately defended the hell out of ofr" as null. How can the exact discussion you wanted happen like...two pages ago and you don't have a single thought on it?

@ofrhz

nsg wants u to unvote

To vote who, and why?

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

Both happen plenty of times. Having a few VTs at the end helps contain swing, which I would imagine is a design goal here since it's more important than usual to make sure every time has a chance to influence gamestate. (Or, at least, that was a big constraint *I* followed for Signs and Void ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) But role madness is also perfectly possible. In any case, speculating about which is which D1 means that you're mostly going off of your *own* PM, which means you kinda leak to scum what information you have, which means I think we should probably just drop this for now

[Kerset]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

What kind of statement is it!? You played one with me. Don't be ridiculous.

[Chemist1422]

What? VT in mini theme? Sounds like bs.

???

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a role madness mini theme run here

What kind of statement is it!? You played one with me. Don't be ridiculous.

That's true but that was a uPick so it doesn't count

i definitely didn't completely forget about it

[Kerset]

You think that reundo is scum, but ALSO that Alisae is as well? And you have Alisae and bitmap *together* in the scum tier? who the hell do you think reundo is partners with here? no thoughts on shadoweh not listening to your reason to unvote me, or me keeping a bead on her so long? Just L-2 on the low-hanging fruit while making it all sound like your own idea.

your tone here suggests to me that you think those reads are bizarre. To me that comes up as a red flag because I don't see as scum why she imploys that strategy when its easier to just put the whole bloc as town

Have thoughts on this but it makes more sense to wait and hear what ofrhz says first. I think you're kinda missing what I think the suspicious thing is but if you are that means ofrhz might also, which means we could get an answer that's really revealing in either direction.

Gotta agree with ofr in that the Kerset views on mastina/jjh seem really underdetermined. If mastina is pocketing jjh so obviously that even a newbie would notice by now, then jjh is town! It kinda seems like you want to just quote individual posts you don't like in isolation, but the whole point is that peoples actions need to be interpreted in the context of how they interact with everyone else. Kerset, maybe a more productive way to have this discussion is - who are your strongest

townreads

, and what do you think they're missing on mastina? What do jjh/mastina flips makes you think about the other one?

Top would be most likely bitmap, klick, shadow but they are all weak townreads. Klick and shadow are bad at catching up and they barely take effort here. Bitmap is not missing things.
jj red - his dumb and he was was SvS with alisae
jjh green - his dumb but also masti is more likely red
mastina green - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mastina red - this solves other people then jjh

As for Reundo feel free to lynch him. I feel no empathy for lurkers.

Even when this wagon was conjured up by basically your worst enemies? If I daycopped Reundo red right now, who are your picks for his buddies?

He is such weak spot that any scum would bus him as teammate. It is naive to think that weak players get protection in competitive game. About daycopp - chemist.

[Kerset]

BTW if reundo doesn't come back in 24 hours i will execute him

[Shadoweh]

I'm not bad at catching up tbh, I'm still reading the thread even if I'm not posting in it. I definitely have posting-related anxiety. I'm having a bit of a crisis actually since the main person helping me just replaced out hahahaha

[Chemist1422]

I'm not bad at catching up tbh, I'm still reading the thread even if I'm not posting in it. I definitely have posting-related anxiety. I'm having a bit of a crisis actually since the main person helping me just replaced out hahahaha

at least you were getting help >:v

[jjh927]

VOTE: Kerset

Reundo's not L-1 any more.
I want to lynch Kerset a lot more than I want to lynch Reundo

[jjh927]

I'll consider switching my vote back if someone I respect tells me to

The thing where Reundo doesn't have a good reason for scumreading me whatsoever does line up perfectly with Alisae's assessment of his readslist

[Jingle]

I think keeping Kers off of hammer at least is useful for the moment, jj.

[jjh927]

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

[Jingle]

With that being said, it has to be something with the people themselves then, no? It seems like I don't really understand your motives here, and the path to winning is not going to be coming out of a super spicy read that's revolutionary and never heard of before. I can't seem to really imagine your thought process so I'm just gonna let you elaborate.

I explained why I'm not inclined to think your read on Mena will be exciting/compelling, and you saying you don't have a bias there doesn't actually do much to convince me that you don't have a bias there. Particularly when I just arrived at a fairly strong townread on him through the end of G+R.

Alisae is very easy to scumread erroneously when e's demotivated, so I don't think your scumread on Ali that originated in a time when e was demotivated is particularly likely to be incredibly accurate or telling.

I don't know how to read chemist, so I have no idea how to judge a read on Chemist. Regardless, I don't think I gain much from you elaborating on that. (Maybe lazy isn't the best way to describe this read, but it definitely still falls under the heading of I don't really care about it.)

Reundo being a low effort scumread should go pretty much without saying.

Does that help to clarify why I was more interested in hearing about Kers/Shadoweh?