TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[nomnomnom]

comedy is your interactions with the rest of the game; tragedy is your interactions with my slot

That doesn't have anything to do with what I just said but okay

[chennisden]

speaking of past town games I have the impression you should already know that this is my town game yet here we are?

That doesn't have anything to do with reality but okay

[chennisden]

i didn't want to go down this path but here we are.

[chennisden]

let me preface the post by saying the following: if you're going to post something that will insult the character of my teammates, don't.

so my team (ali,pops) has agreed on the following (I don't think CT has really seen or thought about this part of the game yet):

- modkill was objectively bad.
- it's more likely scum would report it.
- we are not insinuating anything bad about anyone's character or they would report something they did not actually believe to be an offense. it's not like scum would deliberately exploit the rules. we think kuribo genuinely believed it was a trust tell because a) the earlier posts resembled a trust tell b) it looked like it was working and c) kuribo might only have considered "elements town; he is confirming himself right now" because he knew elements was town. significantly, the majority of people did not think it was a trust tell even though they had seen it.

this is a starting point for discussion, not an end all be all.

also let me end the post with the following: if you're going to post something that will insult the character of my teammates, don't.

[chennisden]

sigh.

i didn't want to post this but ali has been bugging me for the last eternity about it.

[chennisden]

CT is reading nom

Ali says he wants to watch the thread burn, insisted i needed to include a : ) emoji, then expressed his lack of fucks given about the : ) emoji.

pops says the more important point is mods are more likely to grant modkill if reporter is scum

[EspressoPatronum]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

[chennisden]

pops says more specifically:

if elements had a mason partner who reported the post and said "it sucks to report this because elements is on my team but I think this is wrong" mod is more likely to send warning or disregard.

if scum says "he's breaking the rules and this is unfair" then a mod who is worried about the scumteam having a fair shot and maybe feeling guilty about inappropriate has a higher likelihood of letting emotion into the decision.

the probability of the modkill increases the more the scum agree, but the modkill was bad enough i think the chance other scum agreed is low.

it's an unfair advantage to hunt for scum this way, it's not really possible to have this data w/ correct modding.

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

[EspressoPatronum]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

Probably true.

But still, wouldn't the mod have consulted the whole/most of the TM mod team before deciding to mod kill though? I'm struggling to see one mod taking such serious action without consulting the others.

Does that change anything?

Also, for whatever it's worth, lynching for this reason would feel pretty dirty tbh. I understand why you brought it up though.

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

Probably true.

But still, wouldn't the mod have consulted the whole/most of the TM mod team before deciding to mod kill though? I'm struggling to see one mod taking such serious action without consulting the others.

Does that change anything?

Also, for whatever it's worth, lynching for this reason would feel pretty dirty tbh. I understand why you brought it up though.

yes this would be very dirty indeed

and peer pressure is so relatable these days, how do you think my team deported me here

[chennisden]

@chenn Tbf, kuribo seemed annoyed enough about the Elements thing that he'd probably bug the mods about it as town or scum.

pops clarified that mod action + informed POV makes it more likely.

Probably true.

But still, wouldn't the mod have consulted the whole/most of the TM mod team before deciding to mod kill though? I'm struggling to see one mod taking such serious action without consulting the others.

Does that change anything?

Also, for whatever it's worth, lynching for this reason would feel pretty dirty tbh. I understand why you brought it up though.

pops says it doesn't matter because it was objectively bad.

"It's not that I wouldn't ever do it, the opportunity to do it as scum hasn't happened yet" - it's not even clear if he was towncasing himself opposed to lamenting irony

[Flavor Leaf]

As someone who accidentally had that exact same trust tell years back, I’d say it was a legitimate trust tell, and made the game go on faith that “this is the game he chose to break said trust tell” which is kinda crappy anyways, and a complete abuse of a trust tell regardless.

And I already was thinking Elements was likely town, if I were around at the time of all that going down, I probably would have been like “well, he’s town.” but it was for outside reasons. It was an awkward thing to look out no matter what, but I do think the discussion about Kuribo TMI’ing is solid, but not absolute, if that makes sense. Kuribo’s just a hot head.

[EspressoPatronum]

In other news:

I skimmed through Gammagooey's ISO and feel less good about my vote now. Gobble seems to have strong reads though, so maybe he's seeing something that I can't. I'll put Gamma as a scum lean for now.

I think Ank is scum. Her early game behaviour was scummy, I didn't like that Elements and I were her only two scumreads, and I really disliked how she 'needed convincing' that I was scum before she voted me today. She's been calling me scum all game -- why the sudden change of heart?

Chenn is either town or scum trying to distance himself. When the wagon on me started picking up steam, he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice. He chose to defend me instead. On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game. Tentative townlean.

I think FL is town. Strong town lead.... However, the chance of FL being scum increases dramatically if Ank flips scum.

What does GiF normally do in his scum games. He was super active early, but he seems to have dropped off recently.

VOTE: Ank

[chennisden]

i don't think he was deliberately going "hi i'm trust telling i didn't do this as scum" though, although i do think it was objectively poor play.

[chennisden]

In other news:

I skimmed through Gammagooey's ISO and feel less good about my vote now. Gobble seems to have strong reads though, so maybe he's seeing something that I can't. I'll put Gamma as a scum lean for now.

I think Ank is scum. Her early game behaviour was scummy, I didn't like that Elements and I were her only two scumreads, and I really disliked how she 'needed convincing' that I was scum before she voted me today. She's been calling me scum all game -- why the sudden change of heart?

Chenn is either town or scum trying to distance himself. When the wagon on me started picking up steam, he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice. He chose to defend me instead. On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game. Tentative townlean.

I think FL is town. Strong town lead.... However, the chance of FL being scum increases dramatically if Ank flips scum.

What does GiF normally do in his scum games. He was super active early, but he seems to have dropped off recently.

VOTE: Ank

i mean, as much as i've given up on this game, i'd love to at least say "i don't have these mislynches on MY hands"

also wrt "he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice" - yes exactly.

"On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game." - i think the difference there is i was explicitly making shit up and here it would actually drastically hurt town if we did that

[EspressoPatronum]

In other news:

I skimmed through Gammagooey's ISO and feel less good about my vote now. Gobble seems to have strong reads though, so maybe he's seeing something that I can't. I'll put Gamma as a scum lean for now.

I think Ank is scum. Her early game behaviour was scummy, I didn't like that Elements and I were her only two scumreads, and I really disliked how she 'needed convincing' that I was scum before she voted me today. She's been calling me scum all game -- why the sudden change of heart?

Chenn is either town or scum trying to distance himself. When the wagon on me started picking up steam, he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice. He chose to defend me instead. On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game. Tentative townlean.

I think FL is town. Strong town lead.... However, the chance of FL being scum increases dramatically if Ank flips scum.

What does GiF normally do in his scum games. He was super active early, but he seems to have dropped off recently.

VOTE: Ank

i mean, as much as i've given up on this game, i'd love to at least say "i don't have these mislynches on MY hands"

also wrt "he was in a great position to join the wagon without much need for defending his choice" - yes exactly.

"On the other hand, his earlier treatment of my hood argument reminded me of how he behaved as scum in a cult game." - i think the difference there is i was explicitly making shit up and here it would actually drastically hurt town if we did that

Was all of the domino theory made up, or were you drawing on elements of truth there? You also trolled me a bit about my theory regarding reads lists, so that part reminded me of your reaction in this game.

The positioning point looks great for you being town. But just putting it out there for others - if Chenn flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised if some of my wagon had scum on it.

[chennisden]

no, it was partially based on truth - just hilariously exaggerated. i do dislike excessive focus on readslists but not to the point of saying "STOP NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT." i do try to focus on some important slots but it's not like i ignore the rest of the game.

[chennisden]

i also don't think it's very similar to my "legit" scumgame - i was trying new stuff and wanted to shake up my repertoire of scum moves, and it also was a cult game born from memes.

[chennisden]

also the idea of "assoc. reads" in a cult game had a really funny irony to it.

[volxen]

Chenn I think that's really a stretch with respect to Kuribo. It's pretty clear from the way Kuribo responded to Elements' trust-telling that he is vehemently opposed to it, so there's no reason to believe that Kuribo would be more likely to report it as scum compared to town. Even if Kuribo and Elements were scum together I think that Kuribo would have handled it the same way, because it's a matter of preserving the integrity of the game -- in that case he wouldn't want to get an unfair advantage from Elements fake trust-telling. Same idea if Kuribo and Elements were masons together.

I don't think that there is anything AI in the way Kuribo responded to Elements or in the fact that he reported the trust-telling to the mods.

[chennisden]

pops doesn't believe it's a

conscious thing

and for the record i wouldn't buy that it's a

conscious thing

either.

[chennisden]

she's just saying it's more likely town would not spot this, and scum would be alerted "hey, this townie is doing some weird shit, this is icky and not good."

and she said before that mods are more likely to do it if the reporter is scum - though i do personally think this is a stretch

[kuribo]

pops says more specifically:

if elements had a mason partner who reported the post and said "it sucks to report this because elements is on my team but I think this is wrong" mod is more likely to send warning or disregard.

if scum says "he's breaking the rules and this is unfair" then a mod who is worried about the scumteam having a fair shot and maybe feeling guilty about inappropriate has a higher likelihood of letting emotion into the decision.

the probability of the modkill increases the more the scum agree, but the modkill was bad enough i think the chance other scum agreed is low.

it's an unfair advantage to hunt for scum this way, it's not really possible to have this data w/ correct modding.

tell pops I said suck my dick./

[kuribo]

If anyone wants to scum read me because I don't tolerate cheaters in games of mafia, go right the fuck ahead. You should know it makes you a fucking asshole.