White Flag - TM2020

[CheekyTeeky]

BB how are they scumposts? Have you read further than those two posts? Any other reads?

[BBmolla]

not extensively, I unfortunately got busy tonight

feel good about this though gonna see where it takes me

what's up with the auro wagon

[Dannflor]

what's up with the auro wagon

people are DUMB

[Dannflor]

i apologize if this is frustrating, but my team unanimously agrees that it's best for me to spend my time elsewhere. if i don't get nightkilled this game will be my first priority tomorrow.

NSG, I have to say that this rings hollow. You've done nothing today and seemingly don't plan to do anything. Why would you be the night kill? The sheer force of reputation on your team is not enough to offset the complete lack of effort you've put into this game and the threat other strong town players in this game might pose.

More importantly, a scum lynch day 1 in white flag would be absolutely devastating to the scum. Yet, a scum lynch becomes much much less likely today without your vote and voice. This 20 page game is not long enough to warrant not at least skimming and giving what thoughts/directives you can; in addition, this game

should

be JUST as important to your team as any of the others; not only because day 1 is so important in this setup, but because all the games in TM are weighted equally. Your win here counts just as much for your team as winning any of the other games. I don't believe waiting till D2 to post increases our win chance in this game. So, I really don't see why it would be best for you to not spend time on this game.

Surely RC has considered this, surely you have, and the rest of your team. I didn't have a problem with you claiming IRL matters were getting in the way, but this reads as a lie. Are you just bored with this game? Is your team as a whole disinterested? Why?

What exactly are you thinking?

[CheekyTeeky]

town: auro, hopkirk, cephrir
lean town: formerfish

Dann can you help me see Hopkirk town?

Also I like your point about the Auro wagon being fine by scum hence no counter, what do you think scum are doing? Are there some on Auro? Are they lurking?

Like what does a stagnant wagon mean to you?

Bonus work: why is FF now a townread for you? You've interacted some with Kitty, do you have a read there?

On a side note Dunn is obv town according to pops.

[Dannflor]

I'm warming up to Dunn as a strong town read and shifting Cephrir back down a little lower. Mixed on FF.

Honestly, I think scum are fairly content to float by and not make any huge waves. With most of the discourse centering around Auro/Cephrir this game, two slots that might be town, I would imagine scum are feeling safe. Looking at the VCs, I'd say it's likely there's one scum on Auro—unsure who that is exactly—and then two off pushing vanity wagons and staying under the radar. Maybe like Dongempire and nsg if I had to just throw names out there.

The counter point to that is that scum

have

to do work to win white flag, they can't just float by forever. However, I think at least given the game pace so far and the general reads I have, scum might not be super pro-active right now.

I think I town leaned FF a bit too far as a reaction to my overreaction to his push on me, if that makes any sense at all. I thought I wasn't giving him enough credit so I swung too far in the opposite direction. I'm realizing I don't have like... super great reasons to town read him except I luke-warm liked the interactions I had with him after we pushed each other and sort of came to a mutual understanding. However, I also don't think he's done too much that's especially towny which is worrying given his large number of posts.

KittyMo I think is town

re; Hopkirk, I can town case him tomorrow, I need to sleep first. I would ask why you're so down on him though? What are your concerns? He's the sort of slot I just want to point to and be like "obv town lol"

[Dannflor]

eddie says hi cheeky

[Dannflor]

ankamius and the worst got jealous and would also like to say hi

[CheekyTeeky]

Hopkirk, I can town case him tomorrow, I need to sleep first. I would ask why you're so down on him though? What are your concerns? He's the sort of slot I just want to point to and be like "obv town lol"

I've had one game with the hop and he was scum who looked town and won. So I might have PTSD(post-traumatic scum disorder) as all I get from reading his ISO is wtf? I'm not leaning one way or the other just genuinely perplexed and would like to see others' takes there.


In regards to FF, I feel like he's trying to be town instead of being town. I adore town FF and this game just feels like a shell of that. Could it be that the pressure of the TM stage is altering the play I'm used to from him? Sure, but less so and from a less relatable place than my Turkey read.

I also don't follow his read progessions, like how does my slot go from town to scum lean with no posts in between? Why do I get the feeling his reads are a jigsaw he's piecing together based on likely lynch trajectories?

His interactions feel like self-aware read interventions rather than the comically aggressive kick-ass-I-don't-care-if-you-hate-me pushes and tunnels I've seen.
I'm heartbroken.

[CheekyTeeky]

eddie says hi cheeky

ankamius and the worst got jealous and would also like to say hi

Hey guys xx
That's a pretty goat team.

[Hopkirk]

Catching up now. Intended to do it earlier but that Hec-Tic fellow on my team 'team' team challenged me to work out all of his alts from a list of ~200 and it took longer than I expected.

Hop 'Hoppins' hops

[Hopkirk]

Wasn’t a fan of Gobble’s readslist in 341 based on the reads since they’re kind of a mix between ‘I don’t get this read’ and ‘This seems like he’s just townreading people based on wordcount’. I liked the line

so I will townread him to keep him around longer.

from a town perspective as I feel like town Gobble (based on personality seen thusfar) wouldn’t think in the exact same way that whoever he doesn’t like is the person who should/will be lynched.
@Gobble: Why was Dunn high town in that list when you brought him up as a main issue? Why do you townread me + which bits are you seeing as reaching?

Lurking as a scum strat has a much higher negative impact than lurking right now as town, though.

VOTE: FormerFish

Mobile site expands the text box when I type in something in the preview screen, hiding the submit button.

Let me know if you solve this, having the same tech issue.


357 from Formerfish I read about three times and I’m not sure if it added anything?
360 from FF also doesn’t strike me as fully natural? Feels more like he’s giving a rundown with some thoughts attached rather than building on thoughts. Might improve as he finishes the catchup? Idk yet/

He said that white flag is hard to win as town. I disagreed and explained why I felt that wasnt true. I don't know why youre calling it a monologue because its not even among the biggest posts in thread and was made on page 2 in response to something from page 1. I dont understand how me explaining why a post made sense for me to contribute at the time will help change something you see as NAI.

NAI in isolation. Potentially AI depending on how well you could justify the thought process. It reads as unnatural to me still and I want to have a think about whether not being able to see that comes more from town (who don’t consider it could be) or mafia. Leaning towards maf more, but not enough to move my general priors to a scum

read

yet.

Hop 'Hoppers' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

On the other hand, 365 from FF reads really good to me and feels like genuine stream of thought rather than team based fakery that I’d expect a hint of from scum in that. None of that jumps out as fake.

Hop 'Hoppington' Hopps

[Hopkirk]

if i were scum, i wouldn't have any problem having rc just give me things to say. i don't have nearly as much time as i would like right now and while it really pains me to be playing this way in front of the entire site, i don't want to be killed before i can actually impact the game.

also, i don't really care to unvote if it's not doing any damage.

If your team decided 'NSG lurks' as a strategy Idk if I can respect the members any more. Me/Hectic + a few other people (not in our team, some on the site and some not) have had good words to exchange about Cowbells irl on at least a couple of occasions and I'm disappointed if this is how y'all are playing it. This really rubs me the wrong way but from either alignment.

I could be getting completely swindled but I dislike the people on FFs wagons and am happy with the wagon I am on.

It seems really super fkn convenient if that's the scum team which means at least one of them is very likely reading this game completely differently to me.

I will say that FF's catch up was eh at best, lots of IIoA inspires not huge confidence.

What did you think of the timings? I was wondering about one of the posts being a super long wall getting written in 20 minutes.
@Fish: for the one I'm talking about on the last page, how did you get that down so fast? If it was in real time it feels like you didn't have much time to think?

I definitely feel there's legitimate feels in the later wall though.

I like my wagon makeup as of this point too.

I will say that FF's catch up was eh at best, lots of IIoA inspires not huge confidence.

I disagree that its iioa, i think that my posts clearly show how i came to read the people im reading the way that im reading them. The page breakdown was mostly for me to organize my own thoughts a little and then i would expand on what I read and how i read it at the bottom of each post.

And to end it all with a full reads list, analysis of the current wagons and a vote to get current is a lot more content than you are making it out to be. If all i did were those page breakdowns then youd have a leg to stand on, but the fact that you dont even engage me on anything i posted during the catch up nor do you seem like you wanna talk about my vote or any of my reads, so I guess I question how much I care about your opinion when youve already made it up without any direct input from me.

Do you think people expect you to respond more aggressively in this response based on your history that I have not read?

Hop 'Hoppingham' Hops

[Hopkirk]

I saw new people and semi-broke my ‘read posts in order catch up’ general rule to check who’s around now. Nice to see you again cheeky but it’s definitely been more than one game. You’ve played with me as town once or twice, the PPG hydra you had with NSG/Key/RC coming to mind from memory.

Did a quick reread of Wgeurt and leant scum there for reasons I’ll look at after the catchup. I'm aware the slot doesn't townread me btw

Oh, no! This appeal to authority completely destroys my suspicions. I guess people who haven't played with someone before aren't capable of reading that person.

Can you summarise what Espy's side of the argument is in like 20 words as you see it?

It's an appeal to experience, not authority. Esp *refused* to take a look at my town games where there's clear evidence against his reason for the scumread, whereas people who played with me have it.

NSG I'm inclined to believe you have time for TM *for reasons*, can you come play the game kthanx

please don't make presumptions about how my team wants me to spend my time. i never lie about real life circumstances and i never will.

I took your prior post as 'we're doing this for tactic reasons', so if it's 'for irl reasons' and I misread/misinterpreted you have some of my apologies.

I don't just offer (all of) my apologies nowadays after that nasty incident with the=at faerie a while back where I bumped into him, he asked for my apologies, I was dumb enough to agree, and I couldn't say sorry for anything for a while afterwords.

I don't care! If he doesn't use meta, that's his prerogative.

Let's try to figure where we disagree.

1. Esp said I'm scum for a reason X.
2. A cursory glance at my town games would show X in those games.
3. Dunn also says I do X as town.
4. Therefore, scumreading me for X is not valid.
5. Therefore, Esp should re-assess.

(I don't think X is scummy by itself anyway, but that's a different issue)

Can you tell me which point you disagree me with on?

There's nothing I like in any of your posts about your meta and I'm leaning towards 'scum annoyed he's getting caught for the wrong reasons' rather than 'town annoyed people aren't actually reading' since it's been consistent over several days at this point which gives a more forced feeling to it.

Hop 'Hoppersonian' Hops

[Hopkirk]

There’s not really specific things I can pick out from Auro’s posts and say ‘this pings me’. It’s more the whole just rubs me as strongly 'I could light townread this' far too many times.

*Sigh*
I mean, the points of contention are that I am scum for XYZ, and it will literally be a hill I die on if they go uncontested
Same exercise: Can you pick out 'points of contention' that you think are unworthy of contesting?

FWIW, if I was scum I wouldn't be active in the way I am right now, I'd just lay low while other wagons happen.

But ... you ... I uh *gestures wildly at gamestate*

Ceph: Lots of disagreements, can get a feel of why he thinks what he is.
Esp: Disingenuous attacks, lack of content - coasting on Auro push.
FF: Wasn't impressed with content prior to the walls, marked for re-evaluation, like the willingness to engage.
Dunn: Passive, find him reasonable, but does that make him town? Idk.
Joan: Agree with Dunn's reasoning on her, at least to make me not want to lynch her right now.
Dann: I want to call his play... political, but I have some reasons to believe he's town, but he's a great scum player as well, argh~ I'll stick to town for now.
NSG: No comments right now, she has to play the game first, but not willing to lynch anyway.
Wgeurts: No thoughts. That first push on inactivity does feel like posturing, but idk.
Dong: I felt his reaction to my push was towny, but I think I should talk to Dann more about this sometime.
KittyMo: I forgot what I thought of this player before.

On a gamestate level my hunch is that there's scum prolly in the lurkers, and not all scum are pushing me / townreading me at the same time. I think scum would find it easy to coast while I drum up pages of content arguing over things which only seems to strengthen the pushes on me.

Ngl, feeling pretty left out here

Hop 'Hippohopamus' Hopkirk

[Formerfish]

@Fish: for the one I'm talking about on the last page, how did you get that down so fast? If it was in real time it feels like you didn't have much time to think?

Wanna translate this for me? I don't like answering riddles when they make no sense.

[Auro]

I'm leaning towards 'scum annoyed he's getting caught for the wrong reasons'

Lol

[Hopkirk]

Kitty’s wallpost only style isn’t one I think I could ever comfortably townread based on what I currently look for to try and find scum. It feels too uninteractive while being in a cheeful tone that makes me want to townread it followed by me asking myself why.

I read Gobble as obvtown, obvscum, and obvthirtypartywikimod and it evens out somewhere north of town. I want more from the slot though, I feel like he’s struggling to engage with the game for ? reason.

Found your alt by accident btw Gobble when looking for Hectic’s alt(s). You didn’t cover it up well at all.

My townread on Gobble was kind of assuming he’d keep on posting and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that he’s not lying on irl activity stuff and hope people extent to same courtesy to me and my busy weekdays explanations. This week I intend to 100% be busy for Tuesday/Thursday and posting on Wed is dependent on whether I can face it>needing to recharge without any kind of interactions.

I’m very unclear who scum Auro is trying to win over in general or if he’s just dying publicly here.

Don’t think I remember anything about Dong. I couldn’t even tell you what their avatar looked like.

Getting some pretty serious shade from Kitty in 527 in that implication (‘lmao’) she doesn’t think I’m even remotely funny, thinks it’s pretty sad if I think I am, and just thinks I should stop (in response to Gobble’s comment). I might be imagining this in the same way it turns out Elements was imaging he always got lynched d1 (turned out to be literally once when we counted it earlier despite him being 100% sure it was like 5-6 times). Pretty weird Mandela effect there. If this keeps coming up, then the whole site is going to have to be as [redacted] as AaronFrost’s wiki page used to be. Even then, I’m not going to forgot this Kitty.

Hop 'Hop'nop' Hop

[Hopkirk]

Auros not my scumread, i think that defending himself isnt indicative of scumminess but rather misplaced focus. Espeonage is my highest scumread right now and former would have to come second though its not half as strong as esp.

you think i'm being pocketed? Do I need master-stranger protocols on here.

Yup, im caught up, its just the way people have been generally responding (wallposts and multiquotes) have done a number on me and its hard to follow or respond to some stuff. I'll try explaining my read on you but i dont want to lynch you yet, or at least over espionage

Yeah it really makes it harder for me to motivate myself to read walls than normal posts and I don't feel I get as much out of them. I read Dunn/Kitty posts and I just think 'I don't see how I can tell whether this is scum who spent a while on it or town who spent a little less time but still a while on it' since neither really read as free thought flow in the way/timing FF's did.

Auro - 4 (Cephrir, Hopkirk, Espeonage, Formerfish)

I have briefly skimmed this game. Not town reading this wagon plus Dunnstral who I keep flip-flopping on

Hubby </3. Why? I thought you'd always be faithful.

Kitty-mo is my strongest town read, everyone else seems ok?

Auro could you rank my suspects from towniest to scummiest from your POV?

Shakin' up the thread eh? That's your game is it. Not in my town.

I didn't realize Geurts was getting replaced. Wifey you have a hole to climb out of.

You guys adopting?

Bruh, be real with me, did someone coach you to do/say this? You prodged Friday (promising stuff Saturday), Sunday (promising stuff Tuesday), and then again on Tuesday. So what I get from that and this explanation is that you had stuff you thought was worth addressing over the weekend as of Friday, then on Sunday went "ehhh I'm going to take this opportunity to lurk to watch activity levels" instead, and then got actually busy. What would an activity level change have indicated to you? I've never really been in a position where I cared about watching activity levels in relation to myself - because I know my alignment already, so I don't know what there is TO watch from that? Like if there's a defined narrative involving other people and no one's challenging it, that's a game state worth examining and can be telling. If you wanted to stop posting to let pressure on you taper from everyone's boredom, I'd rather you just admitted it. Otherwise: please clarify.

By commenting on stuff I meant like things that Dunnstral was needling, but I didn’t think it was worth it for the game state to get into a post by post quote strip war. I don’t have the time for it at least

How come you didn't comment on my constant 'pls forgive me for not posting' Kitty?

Also why do you think I would be coached to say that?

Do you think you'd actually

let

yourself get coached as scum?

Hop 'Hopopenuse' Hopkirk

[Cephrir]

VOTE: nsg

This is ridiculous.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Formerfish

oh no

And I'm town so this game is gonna be way easier than I anticipated woot woot

I'm sold.

I was going to make a joke about how we're all basically just being bought and sold constantly nowadays but I decided it'd probably bring the thread down and Hectic thought it might have been going too far.

Fuckers

If this is mountanious like i've been told we have an easy win on our hands. In the meantime while i catch scum:
VOTE: Formerfish

these two

Ooh, those are pretty forced yeah.

Hopkirk, I can town case him tomorrow, I need to sleep first. I would ask why you're so down on him though? What are your concerns? He's the sort of slot I just want to point to and be like "obv town lol"

I've had one game with the hop and he was scum who looked town and won. So I might have PTSD(post-traumatic scum disorder) as all I get from reading his ISO is wtf? I'm not leaning one way or the other just genuinely perplexed and would like to see others' takes there.


In regards to FF, I feel like he's trying to be town instead of being town. I adore town FF and this game just feels like a shell of that. Could it be that the pressure of the TM stage is altering the play I'm used to from him? Sure, but less so and from a less relatable place than my Turkey read.

I also don't follow his read progessions, like how does my slot go from town to scum lean with no posts in between? Why do I get the feeling his reads are a jigsaw he's piecing together based on likely lynch trajectories?

His interactions feel like self-aware read interventions rather than the comically aggressive kick-ass-I-don't-care-if-you-hate-me pushes and tunnels I've seen.
I'm heartbroken.

Well I assume I didn't really joke at all in that scumgame and I've joked in all of my towngames recently and OH GOD IS THAT THE MODS WITH A HAMMER OH PLEASE NO I'M JUST TRYING TO BE LESS SERIOUS AND HAVE MORE FUN WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT MODKILL AGH WHY CAN'T I FEEL MY LEGS WHY'S IT GETTING SO COLD

More seriously and with less joking around, haven't we played several games together where I was town too?

Where exactly am I not obvtown?

@Fish: for the one I'm talking about on the last page, how did you get that down so fast? If it was in real time it feels like you didn't have much time to think?

Wanna translate this for me? I don't like answering riddles when they make no sense.

Ok

sure

365 is very long and 20 mins after your previous post.

Now I need you to prove you're being sincere by answering a riddle for me that does make sense: what goes up a chimney down but not down a chimney up? -Riddle courtesy of Hectic. Thanks Hectic! Now how about you give me that meta case you've been promising. I feel like you haven't actually played with Bugspray or how you know he's going to replace FF when he needs to leave abruptly in 4 days, but you've convinced me it's going to be fine enough and you have a good track record so I'm going to trust you on this one.

I'm leaning towards 'scum annoyed he's getting caught for the wrong reasons'

Lol

Haha.

Hop 'Hop-Hop-Hop' Hop

[Hopkirk]

i'm sad mathdino isn't playing. so many inside jokes i was prepared to make that now nobody will get

Oh, just got this one on a second readthrough, nice reference.

For the benefit of anyone who doesn't get it, dinosaurs can't actually do maths. It's ironic.

sorry dann, this game will not be the full "nsg experience"

think we may have already found scum though, holding off on committing for now

i apologize if this is frustrating, but my team unanimously agrees that it's best for me to spend my time elsewhere. if i don't get nightkilled this game will be my first priority tomorrow.

Because 'I have secret scumreads backed by a great group of players, that I'll reveal d2' is

absolutely

the way to avoid the nightkill.

Hop 'hophiphophanes' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

Tastes good to be caught up. Smells like freedom.

Hop 'Hop just sthop' hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

I said I'd say why I didn't like Cheeky's past life but I don't feel motivated and Auro would probably get lonely idk.

Hop 'Hoppynop' Hopkirk