White Flag - TM2020

[KittyMo]

EBWOP: *NOT moving.

Hopkirk: Cool your jets mate, me laughing at gobble was not about you. gobble was questioning townreads on you and then pivoted to saying something like "I'm gonna pretend to townread him more than I really am for being funny" and I found that amusing, and very slightly town indicative from him.

I didn't ask you about any of your comments related to why you can't post more because they didn't really stick out to me and I don't have concerns about your activity level. Like I do remember kinda frowning that you made it sound like you were going to be inactive, but then you ...weren't actually lurky.

Also: Feel free to ask me anything that you feel might help you better understand my approach to the game. I feel that you, and to a lesser extent others, may be making the assumption that being "pleasant" and somewhat passive is, like, my generic playstyle that would present itself similarly regardless of alignment. I probably like that I haven't found more to feel passionate about less than you do! My playstyle this game does result from me figuring out how to play at MafiaScum pace again, and it's a bit of a journey.

[Cephrir]

CheekyTeeky- scummish purely because my team didn't like your predecessor
Auro- scum, but not as hard locked as i'd like to be
Dunnstral- idk
northsidegal- scum, i guess
Dongempire- idk, i find this person to be low charisma which makes them a challenging read
Espeonage- idk

I've removed all the town reads - you've got a pretty good poe here, not that I agree but surely with such a narrow field you'd feel good about changing those idk reads into something?

I almost lock towned you for being so handsome

Why would I suddenly be able to read people I'm not sure about just because there arent many of them?

[Cephrir]

voting me is a mistake and won't make me play differently.

Disagree.

[Cephrir]

If you are town, you're likely dead tonight anyway. Who else are they gonna shoot, me?

[Auro]

Clearly me.

[CheekyTeeky]

Why would I suddenly be able to read people I'm not sure about just because there arent many of them?

Yeah that's not what I'm saying. I meant you should have some motivation to re-look at those players since you're close to a poe.

[Cephrir]

Why would I suddenly be able to read people I'm not sure about just because there arent many of them?

Yeah that's not what I'm saying. I meant you should have some motivation to re-look at those players since you're close to a poe.

I don't really do confident POEs, especially halfway through day 1.

I don't think the thing preventing me from having reads on those people is not having tried

[Auro]

His interactions feel like self-aware read interventions rather than the comically aggressive kick-ass-I-don't-care-if-you-hate-me pushes and tunnels I've seen.
I'm heartbroken.

I like how you put this.
I skimmed a couple of past scum FF ISOs and couldn't find this behaviour though. Can you recall him doing this before?

[Auro]

Like I'm already shitted off by being in this game, bc its the worst setup with the weakest playerlist. I don't want other rogue elements coming in and obfuscating the entire thing when it SHOULD be simple enough to just solve the game and be done with the entire thing by the end of the week.

That said, it seems like people are more interested in protecting their scum games by playing blatantly anti town and claiming it's their town meta. So idek any more.

This post feels fake to me.

[KittyMo]

[snip]

That said, it seems like people are more interested in protecting their scum games by playing blatantly anti town and claiming it's their town meta. So idek any more.

What in this game actually prompts this rant?

[Espeonage]

That people who are defending Auro are going yeah ok its anti town, but it's also what he does so he's town.

[Auro]

Who said it's anti-town?

[Espeonage]

Esp I am really surprised by you treating NSG like she's a run of the mill lurker while you're going so heavy handed on what you think the

right way

to play team mafia is (which seems to be pretty similar to what you think is the right way to play normal mafia).

Spoiler:

dann, what exactly do you think my plan is as scum here? you know that i actually CAN play scum, right? i've endgamed as scum before in white flag (i'm CultOfAthena). i have the capability to put words to paper as scum, especially if it were team mafia, and especially with RC on my team. (personally i would say that the reason i say less as scum in general is more due to lack of interest rather than lack of ability, but that's neither here nor there)

this game is just as important to my team as the others, and that's exactly why we're going with this strategy. i would never be doing this if i wasn't confident in my ability to show that i'm town when the time comes.

voting me is a mistake and won't make me play differently. with the time left in the day and my focus on other games if i switched now then i likely wouldn't get an optimal lynch but i would still paint a target on my back.

i apologize if this is frustrating, but my team unanimously agrees that it's best for me to spend my time elsewhere. if i don't get nightkilled this game will be my first priority tomorrow.

Scum or not, she's basically banking on her paragon reputation to prod dodge to delay her slot contributing anything substantive until d2, and pretending that this is pro town. For the purpose of "priorit[izing]" Other Things for her team. Besides being disrespectful, I find it pro-scum and scummy because positioning herself as a "No info kill" is more important to her than doing anything besides MAKING WIFOM SELF-META CASES or MOVING HER RVS VOTE ONTO THE SCUMREAD SHE CLAIMED TO HAVE. As scum she is forced to walk an awkward line in this player list of it making sense for her to live a while, without being scummy enough to lynch. In my mind that is better reason for this strat than whatever the deluded "pro town" value is she's claiming.

Clear up for me why, of the lurkers, she is more likely to be town for you.

My impression is that her team wants her attention on their games and she'll get in to this one later. Given that I would expect her to create readable content later on, there's no reason to doubt that she is telling the truth and will produce content later.

At least she has been open about it.

[Auro]

there's no reason to doubt that she is telling the truth

I can imagine scum motivation, BoP. NSG as scum can't bus teammates, and driving a town lynch would be held against her. Not "participating" also explains away that she won't be NK'd.

[Dannflor]

I think Auro has been very pro-town this game

[KittyMo]

My impression is that her team wants her attention on their games and she'll get in to this one later. Given that I would expect her to create readable content later on, there's no reason to doubt that she is telling the truth and will produce content later.

At least she has been open about it.

[Snip]
Bounce ideas of them sure, but play your game, don't be a conduit for someone to just play four games.

She is implying that she is being conduited to play other games while not playing this one. You being cool with it seems really hypocritical to me.

[Espeonage]

If NSG has never bussed anyone I will be super surprised.

And I would not make a claim that NSG is non negotiable n1 kill in any game unless she has absolutely nailed the scum team or can be used to heavily implicate another townie. While I said this was the weakest playerlist due to the severe lack of depth, doesn't mean there isn't a top end.

[Espeonage]

My impression is that her team wants her attention on their games and she'll get in to this one later. Given that I would expect her to create readable content later on, there's no reason to doubt that she is telling the truth and will produce content later.

At least she has been open about it.

[Snip]
Bounce ideas of them sure, but play your game, don't be a conduit for someone to just play four games.

She is implying that she is being conduited to play other games while not playing this one. You being cool with it seems really hypocritical to me.

I'm not in other games, if people aren't gonna chuck a hissy fit like I did over group reading then so be it. The entire point of my rant is that I don't want people wresting control of other games. It would hypocritical of me to hold games I'm not in to my standard.

[Espeonage]

Dunn 346's counter point to Kitty's claim that Auro is posturing as caught for the wrong reasons was to say yeah but he does this all the time. Which was one a found as soon as I started looking.

[Auro]

If NSG has never bussed anyone I will be super surprised.

And I would not make a claim that NSG is non negotiable n1 kill in any game unless she has absolutely nailed the scum team or can be used to heavily implicate another townie. While I said this was the weakest playerlist due to the severe lack of depth, doesn't mean there isn't a top end.

Not in a meta sense, she wouldn't bus because the loss of a scum member has a large detrimental impact for scum.

If she's town, scum have every reason to believe she would "town it up" and gamesolve later, I dunno if they'd keep her around as a lynch option. I bring up the N1 kill point because there's an inconsistency - not in the game directly, and I can't say more.

[Auro]

Dunn 346's counter point to Kitty's claim that Auro is posturing as caught for the wrong reasons was to say yeah but he does this all the time. Which was one a found as soon as I started looking.

Yeah, but it's not anti-town. If my argumentative style is giving someone "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes but it's established it's my style, how is it impeding town?

[KittyMo]

Re: 717, that angle would make more sense to me if it had no effect on this game, but she claims it does.

Dunn 346's counter point to Kitty's claim that Auro is posturing as caught for the wrong reasons was to say yeah but he does this all the time. Which was one a found as soon as I started looking.

Yeah and since Dunn implied he isn't good at reading Auro I don't get why he cares so much about trying to bring in Auro meta. He at least isn't using the "I always find him scummy" as an excuse to throw suspicion on Auro, which is probably the more standard angle w/r/t that. But I still have no clue what Dunn actually thinks of Auro which is a problem.

[CheekyTeeky]

I skimmed a couple of past scum FF ISOs and couldn't find this behaviour though. Can you recall him doing this before?

Yep.

[Auro]

Yeah and since Dunn implied he isn't good at reading Auro I don't get why he cares so much about trying to bring in Auro meta.

Meta works in two ways.

1. Auro does X as scum and never as town, he must be scum (or) Auro does X as town and not as scum, he must be town
2. X is an invalid reason to scumread Auro because I've noticed it in his towngames

You don't need to be good at reading Auro to make the second point.

[Espeonage]

If NSG has never bussed anyone I will be super surprised.

And I would not make a claim that NSG is non negotiable n1 kill in any game unless she has absolutely nailed the scum team or can be used to heavily implicate another townie. While I said this was the weakest playerlist due to the severe lack of depth, doesn't mean there isn't a top end.

Not in a meta sense, she wouldn't bus because the loss of a scum member has a large detrimental impact for scum.

If she's town, scum have every reason to believe she would "town it up" and gamesolve later, I dunno if they'd keep her around as a lynch option. I bring up the N1 kill point because there's an inconsistency - not in the game directly, and I can't say more.

This game is mountainous with EXTRA reason to bus. Your argument is inherently flawed by the fact that scum have even more incentive to bus not less.