In post 1930, Bitmap wrote:I believe that you're making a bunch of attribution errors. I have no desire to babysit bitmap's actions. I'm not here to puppeteer him or dictate to him what to do. I want to use my words to convince people of my reasoning. You seem to be attributing this frustration of "not listening" to all of us, however this isn't the case.
I believe if you were to ask more concise questions, it would be apparent that there really isn't as much "internal skew" as you claim.
It's not like my questions have been particularly long, but here are three short ones, sure:
1. How would you summarize RC's positions about this game?
2. Why do you think Bitmap is upset?
3. What alignment do you think I am?
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
In post 1945, Bitmap wrote:NSG also wants to know if you can elaborate why you are townreading Alisae if not because e's "on the same page" as you?
The read went to hard town shortly after e realised I was town. Look at the realisation and the justification and the behind the scenes work that would be totally unnecessary for scum and the read progression everywhere else in the game that follows from it. That's town.
okay like I said cohesion tell on ofr is probably a false positive since her list is one scum and everyone else null or higher (plus like, Bitmap and reundo are two of the scum so we're running outta space), but my wounded pride compels me to say that this is basically the distillation of why I brought it up. seems weird to walk away from that jjh/alisae live action hugbox and end up with jjh town alisae scum, doubly so if you don't care to engage with jjh about it. I'm letting it go for now but like c'mon y'all that's a decently high percentage thing to look at right
In post 1947, jjh927 wrote:How come NSG is doing all this engaging through you but doesn't appear to be convincing you of any reads? This all feels more like a heartfelt appeal than an attempt to place people
NSG's response: I'm working on a post relating to how our team is communicating atm but felt it was kind of weird to post but now if you ask for it I'll post it.
My response: Because sometimes I like watching the world burn in a slow but destructive fire and RC isn't in this game to create it. Also, I'm experiencing sad boi hours.
When reading Bitmap 1948 please remember what he posted not 24 hours ago
In post 1884, Bitmap wrote:Can't wait to be done with this game and see town throwing away the advice of 2 paragon level players because people in this game believe they're better than Paragon level yet never get suggested or come even close to it.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
I just wanted to go into reasons to why I scumread Alisae. These are the three primary reasons I scumread e.
1. Political Reads
"Political reads" was a term Mathdino has used a bunch. Pretty much, it's when you have reads that are easy to have over the ones that you really believe in. I believe the most obvious evidence of this was when Alisae did a hard 180 flip on JJH and Bitmap, however there is evidence in through the rest of the game. Some of this involves bitmap but you don't have to believe in bitmap being town in order to see that Alisae's reads have been political.
We see this at a key time in our first example where bitmap has a read on Alisae where he is unsure of what to think of e, and shortly after relays a message from RC where RC talks about about how mastina is scum.
Scum is pushing Klick because they think he's a weak slot.
Who specifically is doing this?
I originally thought it could be Alisae but I'm unsure what I think of Alisae atm.
In post 574, Bitmap wrote:RC wanted me to pass something to this thread. He said he's pretty sure that Mastina is scum who's getting away with murder since there are people who are willing to buy into her "aaa spooky RC" perspective but hasn't been really interested in pursuing it cause he feels like people knowing the read coming from RC is going to discredit it and bitmap doesn't really feel interested in pushing it by himself because this game is demoralizing and shit.
Alisae quickly hops on the Mastina wagon and aligns eirself with RC's scumread that he had spoken about.
You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!
That is to say, rather notably tired.
This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.
Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.
Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.
Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum VOTE: mastina
In post 694, Alisae wrote:Btw I definitely think mastina v bitmap is not a TvT
In post 699, Alisae wrote:like I think bitmap just wanting to use my script to not read mastina’s posts seems more town indicative then scum indicative and bitmap seems to feel like he’s being super marginalized.
Like maybe that makes him town but his playstyle is freaking me out
In post 698, jjh927 wrote:Mastina read on you looks like a lazy version of my read on you that I haven't explained outside of my head yet
She always scumreads me when we’re town.
ALWAYS
It is veritably true that Alisae had scumread mastina beforehand. What makes this political is the velocity with which e jumped on the wagon and tried to align with Bitmap when RC made something of a big commotion about mastina being scum, and
most importantly
, how fast e hopped
off
the wagon when RC mentions that Alisae was scum in his reads. Lets also note how much mastina is transformed into a "PoE scumread" rather than the intensity of the previous attacks and pushes.
In post 897, Alisae wrote:VOTE: jingle
im not exactly sure I am feeling Klick or hito anymore
my towncore is still Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset
I feel comfortable adding Bitmap there tbh
Voting GE is a waste of time
that leaves Jingle ofhrz and mastina
Lastly, we have examples of
hard
read changes on two different players that to my eyes, demonstrates clear confirmation of political aligning. That would be on both JJH and Bitmap.
JJH
I think that somewhere in the middle through Alisae's push on JJH, e had noticed two things:
JJH would most likely have a scum read on eir if e continued to push him.
JJH is the type of player who would town read eir if e town reads him.
You can see clear evidence of this in JJH mentioning that Alisae is knowledgeable of jjh's meta. Please go back and re-read that whole interaction, and notice how quick both Alisae's JJH read switch from the bottom to the absolute top, and how immediately that e shrugs it off and attempts to get straight into "so let's talk about reads".
But you know my meta? Like, why is activity from me concerning to you at all?
In post 1365, jjh927 wrote:I'm sure you know that aspect of my play. Because it used to be exclusively my townplay and sure, now I can do it as scum too, for as long as I can stay enthusiastic, but it's weird that you're seeing something I was doing as early as spring fever and interpreting it completely wrong
PEdit: Not for lack of trying. But I pointed that out because changing people's minds is A. Hard and B. Opens you up to more accountability.
In post 1377, Alisae wrote:look you wanna dwell on this or would you like to chat about other things.
Look let's start with reads.
what does your list exactly look like, I know some of your reads like Bitmap Kerset scum mastina town but I don't have a grasp for all of them
In post 1378, Alisae wrote:I'll order mine from strength again
hito, jjh, bitmap, shadoweh, mena
Klick, chemist, Kerset
Jingle
mastina
ofrhz Reundo
Bitmap
I believe that this has received very little notice and attention in spite of just how obvious I believe it is. Alisae's read on bitmap switched from the top of eir reads list to the immediate bottom, and all that it took to have that happen was that I said I scumread Alisae.
In post 1430, Alisae wrote:Ok so I flip town and then town kills you
I like this gameplan
In post 1433, Alisae wrote:Sure trust the princess paragon that’s fiiiiiiine
Nsg should be able to read me correctly
If she wants to out an incorrect read u can die when I flip.
In post 1533, Alisae wrote:{Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
{Chemiboi, Jingle}
{ofhrz}
{Reundo}
{Kerset, Bitmap}
I do not plan to make the claim that this is due to Alisae being "scared" of me or anything. What I will mention is that this is completely and absolutely political posturing. While before in the game it was convenient for Alisase to use RC's anger towards mastina and aligning with Bitmap, after just pocketing JJH and noticing that both me and RC scumreading eir, it has become easy to align with the {JJH, Mastina} block. I'm going to go more definitively into Alisae's response to being scumread later, however.
How's this been working out? It has actually been quite an efficient strategy.
Mastina is townreading Alisae for pretty much townreading her.
Spoiler: Mastina
In post 1730, mastina wrote:Yeah and if Alisae/Jingle are scum, they would be scum in large part specifically for this--of recognizing that my play here is my towngame, of recognizing that just like in that game there was really no fucking reason behind the suspicion on my slot, of me being wagoned for literally nothing,
and choosing to in spite of that similarity, press me as a scumread anyway
.
Both are currently townreads in part because tracking their thought processes
(I think I read up to some page number in either the high-50s or low-60s so that's about where I am with this recollection), as far as I can tell, they haven't opted for this, more or less. They have done this recognition at least partially, even if not fully.
Jjh mentions how it's not just cause Alisae is "on the same page" as him,
but I don't see any other validation from him
and in the process of writing this case outright said that it is because Alisae reading him as town.
Spoiler: JJH
In post 1584, jjh927 wrote:Mastina's been where I'm at for ages
Jingle looks to be pretty nearby
In post 1945, Bitmap wrote:NSG also wants to know if you can elaborate why you are townreading Alisae if not because e's "on the same page" as you?
The read went to hard town shortly after e realised I was town
. Look at the realisation and the justification and the behind the scenes work that would be totally unnecessary for scum and the read progression everywhere else in the game that follows from it. That's town.
The "townblock" has become a serious talking point of discussion.
Spoiler:
In post 1851, Alisae wrote:If we are wrong and we haven't nailed the scumteam but we're 2/3 and there is scum in the bloc and we lynch bitmap now, the kills are going to be made by the individual who is in the block.
In post 1855, Alisae wrote:And if there ISN'T scum in the bloc and we are 3/3 (or 2/3 and someone is bussing), there isn't going to be much resistance to lynching their buddies tomorrow.
Lynching Bitmap today establishes dominance and allows us to control the agenda and flow of the game if we're right with bitmap kerset and reundo containing scum.
In post 1863, Alisae wrote:I'm also thinking about what kills scum can take to break up our townbloc if bitmap is scum
In post 1866, Alisae wrote:ok but with you dead the bloc is significantly weaker
with the bloc being significantly weaker, its easier for bitmap to break it apart
"I give up on trying to read you. You're unimaginably scummy, with a dose of ultra-Town thrown in for spice."
Mod: V/LA for an uncertain time due to snowmageddon 2020.
(Already lost power once, and because my fatass father never bothered to fix it, our UPSes don't actually provide power so SNAP, power out, computer dies instantly.)
When we have power I'll be around; when we don't...well. Limited availability due to limited supplies for posting.
In the mean time tho: VOTE: Bitmap
Limited supplies still leaves me with the chances to switch.
In post 1956, jjh927 wrote:It's not about the fact that Alisae is townreading me or Mastina. It's the way the conclusion is reached, and the thought process behind it.
NSG said that for the best scum players, it's not really about what is necessary or not but about what's effective.
"I give up on trying to read you. You're unimaginably scummy, with a dose of ultra-Town thrown in for spice."
In post 1884, Bitmap wrote:Can't wait to be done with this game and see town throwing away the advice of 2 paragon level players because people in this game believe they're better than Paragon level yet never get suggested or come even close to it.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
Why are you being so unnecessarily hostile to Bitmap? The whole requoting thing is good for nothing but pissing people off. It's legit upsetting to see you being so antagonizing for no reason.
(unless of course that reason is to be a jerk because you're scum, in which case good job keep it up, I sure wish other people would call you on this shit you keep doing)
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir
When push comes to shove I'd probably also be fine with a hito wagon, but let's be honest he was never going to get lynched in the first three days of this game
Like, let's say it's building as a counterwagon to scum!Reundo
First question: Why? Scum would bus that shit into the ground
Second question: If it is indeed a counterwagon to scum!Reundo, it would be logical to assume that Bitmap was selected as the most likely wagon to lure town Reundo voters away. Do you agree with this, and what do you think about its implications?
"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle
In post 1587, Klick wrote:Not a fan of a bunch of eLiTe PlAyErS getting together to lynch the new guy's slot with 5 posts tbh
To here
In post 1889, Klick wrote:So I feel like the Reundo wagon is extremely lazy and that there's an unusual amount of reaching to have an excuse to lynch an empty slot.
Why not just lynch the slot because it's empty and you have a lot of townreads?
Either way, now I am REALLY interested in what reundo is going to flip
You have bitmap’s team with all of his top high tier players focusing on lynching me and trying to push against reundo
You have Hito trying to push any kind of counter while reundo has votes
You have Kerset VOTING reundo and putting him to l-1
Bitmap is pushing me HARDER now
And then you have klick who votes reundo with some of that wacko shit
