Mini Normal 2115: Fin

[Luca Blight]

I'm usually quite back and forth in my sorting of Frost but I think he's Town atm.

[Luca Blight]

I played as Masons with Profii before and he was so hungry to push the game forward and find scum, I'm not feeling that at all from him so far.

VOTE: Profii

I'm mostly caught up, but skimmed some parts. I'll start ISO'ing in more detail.

My thought in that game was I had a solid claim so I could push the game as hard as I like and if I got a lot of pressure I had a self claim.

My role in this game does not self resolve so I cant play like that

Ironically, I expected my Mason-style to attract more scum reads than normal and it seems the opposite is happening here

I can understand that, although my own approach is quite the opposite.

The big difference though is that in that game you were asking really probing questions with clear direction, whereas here you're just asking passive questions that don't really achieve anything, like

'Have you played with Wimpy

' and '

what do you think of RVS'

. With regard to the latter question you didn't follow-up on the answer by Frost, so again it seemed a bit 'for the sake of it'.

[Egix96]

I'm almost ready; I promise. Do I go after

the Pokemon

or the demon slayer? These games take too long to start. The Mad Prince or the cute guy with the glasses...? Post restrictions? No...

My head, it is a-shaking.

I do not recognise who could be a killer of devils, or an insane son of a king. Would it be possible to identify them in some other manner, mayhaps?

[Egix96]

i voted profii for 10, mainly.

For the same reason as Insom? Huh. I genuinely had no issue with it.

[profii]

Could you explain how they are the same.

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.

What Insomnia is saying: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.

What you're claiming he's saying: I like that profii concluded that Wimpy likes bacon.

These are completely different things. He town read you for calling out alch, not for reading wimpy correctly.

continuing the theme I see it as

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.
Insomnia: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.
Profii: Alch clearly stated the wrong thing about the bacon issue, like, so blatantly clearly. If I hadn't called Alch out on it, surely someone else would have, surely I dont deserve town points on the merit of essentially reading the post first and replying to it - what must Alch be up to?


I am making the assumption that if I didnt call out Alch, someone else would have - I stand by that.

[profii]

I played as Masons with Profii before and he was so hungry to push the game forward and find scum, I'm not feeling that at all from him so far.

VOTE: Profii

I'm mostly caught up, but skimmed some parts. I'll start ISO'ing in more detail.

My thought in that game was I had a solid claim so I could push the game as hard as I like and if I got a lot of pressure I had a self claim.

My role in this game does not self resolve so I cant play like that

Ironically, I expected my Mason-style to attract more scum reads than normal and it seems the opposite is happening here

I can understand that, although my own approach is quite the opposite.

The big difference though is that in that game you were asking really probing questions with clear direction, whereas here you're just asking passive questions that don't really achieve anything, like

'Have you played with Wimpy

' and '

what do you think of RVS'

. With regard to the latter question you didn't follow-up on the answer by Frost, so again it seemed a bit 'for the sake of it'.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didnt even see the reply from Aaron

[profii]

but looking back

He made a 'serious scum read' which seemed quite quick
So I asked, dont really know what I was expecting but like his answer was quite... generic?

If he said something like 'RVS is really important because X or Y happens and that means Z' - I'd take a serious scum read more seriously

But because he made a serious scum read and then was quite passive about his attitude to RVS, I dont really take his vote as seriously as he claims and I'll be looking at how he deals with that slot as we go forward.

[AaronFrost]

It wouldn’t call it a scum read but yes that was the reason. I don’t know why people are asking about it.

Just trying to figure out your reason behind the read to figure out if it's a genuine or fabricated read. Your reasons feel pretty genuine to me.

[AaronFrost]

People seem to have reads on Profii already. I don't like how Egix96 implied a town read on profii in post 68 and threw shade at those voting him. I think there's a strong chance that if one of profii and Egix96 flip scum, the other one will too

What are your thoughts on profii right now?

I know you said you're not a fan of Day 1 (most people aren't) but it'd still be nice if you participated a little more and let us know what you're thinking.

[AaronFrost]

I disagree with Alch that 57 bleeds Town - I could easily see self-correction coming from scum who worry about leaving themselves open to attack.

That reminds me though that while I agree with Frost's 75, I got a scum ping because he basically just repeated what Insomnia said in his 'correction' post.

Hey Luca

Not gonna lie, I hadn't even seen insomnia's correction until after I posted that but that was my thought when I first read it and I want to see how he responds.

I kind of agree with you on profii. Last game I played with him he felt pretty obviously town. Granted I was scum in that game so I didn't exactly have to read him too much but I could never push him either. Not quite getting the same vibes from him here as he's been mostly under the radar.

[AaronFrost]

but looking back

He made a 'serious scum read' which seemed quite quick
So I asked, dont really know what I was expecting but like his answer was quite... generic?

If he said something like 'RVS is really important because X or Y happens and that means Z' - I'd take a serious scum read more seriously

But because he made a serious scum read and then was quite passive about his attitude to RVS, I dont really take his vote as seriously as he claims and I'll be looking at how he deals with that slot as we go forward.

I mean it was a pretty generic question so I'm not sure what you were expecting either?

I don't expect specific things to happen during RVS. Like I'm not looking for this 'one specific scenario' to play out or anything like that I mostly just observe and talk to other players and eventually that creates some discussion and if I see something that pings me one way or the other then I'll throw it out and see how people react to it.

[Wimpy]

I do like bacon

[Wimpy]

I am v/la on weekends

[profii]

but looking back

He made a 'serious scum read' which seemed quite quick
So I asked, dont really know what I was expecting but like his answer was quite... generic?

If he said something like 'RVS is really important because X or Y happens and that means Z' - I'd take a serious scum read more seriously

But because he made a serious scum read and then was quite passive about his attitude to RVS, I dont really take his vote as seriously as he claims and I'll be looking at how he deals with that slot as we go forward.

I mean it was a pretty generic question so I'm not sure what you were expecting either?

I don't expect specific things to happen during RVS. Like I'm not looking for this 'one specific scenario' to play out or anything like that I mostly just observe and talk to other players and eventually that creates some discussion and if I see something that pings me one way or the other then I'll throw it out and see how people react to it.

Just figured I'd ask, nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Ame]

I am making the assumption that if I didnt call out Alch, someone else would have - I stand by that.

That makes sense, thank you for explaining. So

do

you think somni was trying to pocket you?

I'm almost ready; I promise. Do I go after

the Pokemon

or the demon slayer? These games take too long to start. The Mad Prince or the cute guy with the glasses...? Post restrictions? No...

My head, it is a-shaking.

I do not recognise who could be a killer of devils, or an insane son of a king. Would it be possible to identify them in some other manner, mayhaps?

Pokemon = Egix
Demon slayer = Ame
Mad Prince = Luca
Glasses = JT

@Egix

: Do you have any thoughts on JT

i voted profii for 10, mainly.

What didn't you like about #10? And was that your only reason for voting him? You say mainly, so I presume there were lesser reasons as well.

So what are you scum reading me for again?

Mostly for post 56 which felt a little exaggerated and forced to me. Followed by your immediate retraction about two minutes later. To me it read like 'oh shit I said something that might be perceived as scummy better retract it real quick.'

I disagree with Alch that 57 bleeds Town - I could easily see self-correction coming from scum who worry about leaving themselves open to attack.

@Alchemist

: Considering the reasoning behind the two posts above, do you still hold somni's post as coming from town? Additionally, if you had to gamble on who mafia were at this point, who would you choose?

[Alchemist21]

Could you explain how they are the same.

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.

What Insomnia is saying: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.

What you're claiming he's saying: I like that profii concluded that Wimpy likes bacon.

These are completely different things. He town read you for calling out alch, not for reading wimpy correctly.

continuing the theme I see it as

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.
Insomnia: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.
Profii: Alch clearly stated the wrong thing about the bacon issue, like, so blatantly clearly. If I hadn't called Alch out on it, surely someone else would have, surely I dont deserve town points on the merit of essentially reading the post first and replying to it - what must Alch be up to?


I am making the assumption that if I didnt call out Alch, someone else would have - I stand by that.

The bacon analogy Ame and you are using is a poor representation of the conversation.

Wimpy: I want people to leave me alone.
Alch: Do you not want people to talk to you?
Wimpy: They can, I just don’t want them to endlessly harass me.
Alch: Ok that’s fine.

That’s what the conversation was like.

[Alchemist21]

@Alchemist: Considering the reasoning behind the two posts above, do you still hold somni's post as coming from town? Additionally, if you had to gamble on who mafia were at this point, who would you choose?

I disagree with them and still think Insomnia is Town.

I’m not compelled to move my vote from Macabre but if I had to I would move it to Profii.

[Wimpy]

Wimpy: I want people to leave me alone.
Alch: Do you not want people to talk to you?
Wimpy: They can, I just don’t want them to endlessly harass me.
Alch: Ok that’s fine.

edit to add

insomnia - why ask that question? it doesn't help you figure him out

alch - yes it does, it tells me that he responds well to pressure

The bolded is the issue. I don't want to be endlessly harassed doesn't mean I like pressure or I respond well to it. It just means i am not going to take my ball and go home every time I am pressured.

You made an incorrect assumption based on not enough evidence. Is that AI though? I don't know

it's all sort of meaningless now though.

[Ame]

@Alchemist: Considering the reasoning behind the two posts above, do you still hold somni's post as coming from town? Additionally, if you had to gamble on who mafia were at this point, who would you choose?

I disagree with them and still think Insomnia is Town.

I’m not compelled to move my vote from Macabre but if I had to I would move it to Profii.

My perspective on insomnia's 57 is that mafia often dance around their reads because they know they are pushing town and so are sensitive to the fact that their reasoning is flawed in some way. That's the impression I get from somni's read on you. (1) Do you think this is a valid interpretation? (2) And if you still disagree, what specifically makes you think otherwise? Furthermore, you stated that insomnia plays aggressively as town. (3) Have you played in a game where he was scum? (3a) And if not, what makes you think he wouldn't play the same way as scum? Surely he'd want to emulate his town style.

I wasn't clear with my question before: (4) if you had to gamble on who the mafia

team

was at this point, who would you choose? Basically, I'm interested in your suspicions other than profii. If you're not comfortable answering the team question, I'd just like to hear your general suspicions on players (not town reads).

(5) For what reason are you not inclined to remove your vote from Mac? You stated before that your vote was just an attempt at moving out of RVS.

When you respond, could you number each question as provided?

To add to Wimpy's post: it is AI because it indicates that were not making a genuine attempt at game solving and that your reasoning was made up after the fact in response to somni's inquiry.

[Egix96]

Pokemon = Egix
Demon slayer = Ame
Mad Prince = Luca
Glasses = JT

@Egix: Do you have any thoughts on JT

Thanks. I only needed the middle two though, I had already figured out the others

As for your question: No, I really don't have much to say about what he's written so far. I would rather wait for him to have more posts first.

[Egix96]

I kind of agree with you on profii. Last game I played with him he felt pretty obviously town. Granted I was scum in that game so I didn't exactly have to read him too much but I could never push him either. Not quite getting the same vibes from him here as he's been mostly under the radar.

Imagine for a moment that profii is someone you've never played a game with before - what do you think of him now?

[profii]

Could you explain how they are the same.

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.

What Insomnia is saying: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.

What you're claiming he's saying: I like that profii concluded that Wimpy likes bacon.

These are completely different things. He town read you for calling out alch, not for reading wimpy correctly.

continuing the theme I see it as

Wimpy: I like bacon
Alch: I don't think Wimpy likes bacon.
Profii: I don't know how Alch concluded that.
Insomnia: I like that profii pointed out that Alch is wrong.
Profii: Alch clearly stated the wrong thing about the bacon issue, like, so blatantly clearly. If I hadn't called Alch out on it, surely someone else would have, surely I dont deserve town points on the merit of essentially reading the post first and replying to it - what must Alch be up to?


I am making the assumption that if I didnt call out Alch, someone else would have - I stand by that.

The bacon analogy Ame and you are using is a poor representation of the conversation.

Wimpy: I want people to leave me alone.
Alch: Do you not want people to talk to you?
Wimpy: They can, I just don’t want them to endlessly harass me.
Alch: Ok that’s fine.

That’s what the conversation was like.

Well that answers the whole thing for me

[profii]

That makes sense, thank you for explaining. So do you think somni was trying to pocket you?

If anything, upon reflection, maybe insomnia was just going through the sorting process with me so I dont think so

[Alchemist21]

@Alchemist: Considering the reasoning behind the two posts above, do you still hold somni's post as coming from town? Additionally, if you had to gamble on who mafia were at this point, who would you choose?

I disagree with them and still think Insomnia is Town.

I’m not compelled to move my vote from Macabre but if I had to I would move it to Profii.

My perspective on insomnia's 57 is that mafia often dance around their reads because they know they are pushing town and so are sensitive to the fact that their reasoning is flawed in some way. That's the impression I get from somni's read on you. (1) Do you think this is a valid interpretation? (2) And if you still disagree, what specifically makes you think otherwise? Furthermore, you stated that insomnia plays aggressively as town. (3) Have you played in a game where he was scum? (3a) And if not, what makes you think he wouldn't play the same way as scum? Surely he'd want to emulate his town style.

I wasn't clear with my question before: (4) if you had to gamble on who the mafia

team

was at this point, who would you choose? Basically, I'm interested in your suspicions other than profii. If you're not comfortable answering the team question, I'd just like to hear your general suspicions on players (not town reads).

(5) For what reason are you not inclined to remove your vote from Mac? You stated before that your vote was just an attempt at moving out of RVS.

When you respond, could you number each question as provided?

To add to Wimpy's post: it is AI because it indicates that were not making a genuine attempt at game solving and that your reasoning was made up after the fact in response to somni's inquiry.

I’ll answer 1-3 jointly because the answers are all related. I think the other takes on Insomnia are understandable and my disagreement is largely based on my previous experience with Insomnia. I’ve only played with him once, as Town, but I do think he’s Town here because he’s taking our history into account when trying to read me. He could mimic an aggressive style as scum, but last time we were both Town and got into a big argument with each other and it didn’t exactly end well for me. If he was scum who wanted to push me he could have just done the exact same thing and it would have looked just like last time and he could have just written me off as a bad player if he got me lynched to absolve himself of the mistake. I don’t really see him being scum taking the WIFOM route of taking our history into account because why would scum feel a need to tailor their play towards a single player they played with exactly once? His quick timing to correct himself also comes off as more Towny to me - scum would more likely have double checked their post to make sure what they said makes sense. This looked like a knee-jerk response followed by realization they read the post wrong.

4) I don’t have any other suspicions right now so I can’t try to name a whole team right now.

5) Macabre’s posts are confusing to me and if they continue to be then I doubt I’ll be able to read him and would rather lynch it than keep having to keep being confused. If I stop being confused by their posts then I’ll be willing to change my vote. My problem with Profii isn’t big enough to change from Macabre because I can develop a better understanding of Profii to know if they’re scum or not as the game goes on.

[Ame]

Spoiler:

@Alchemist: Considering the reasoning behind the two posts above, do you still hold somni's post as coming from town? Additionally, if you had to gamble on who mafia were at this point, who would you choose?

I disagree with them and still think Insomnia is Town.

I’m not compelled to move my vote from Macabre but if I had to I would move it to Profii.

My perspective on insomnia's 57 is that mafia often dance around their reads because they know they are pushing town and so are sensitive to the fact that their reasoning is flawed in some way. That's the impression I get from somni's read on you. (1) Do you think this is a valid interpretation? (2) And if you still disagree, what specifically makes you think otherwise? Furthermore, you stated that insomnia plays aggressively as town. (3) Have you played in a game where he was scum? (3a) And if not, what makes you think he wouldn't play the same way as scum? Surely he'd want to emulate his town style.

I wasn't clear with my question before: (4) if you had to gamble on who the mafia

team

was at this point, who would you choose? Basically, I'm interested in your suspicions other than profii. If you're not comfortable answering the team question, I'd just like to hear your general suspicions on players (not town reads).

(5) For what reason are you not inclined to remove your vote from Mac? You stated before that your vote was just an attempt at moving out of RVS.

When you respond, could you number each question as provided?

To add to Wimpy's post: it is AI because it indicates that were not making a genuine attempt at game solving and that your reasoning was made up after the fact in response to somni's inquiry.

I’ll answer 1-3 jointly because the answers are all related. I think the other takes on Insomnia are understandable and my disagreement is largely based on my previous experience with Insomnia. I’ve only played with him once, as Town, but I do think he’s Town here because he’s taking our history into account when trying to read me. He could mimic an aggressive style as scum, but last time we were both Town and got into a big argument with each other and it didn’t exactly end well for me. If he was scum who wanted to push me he could have just done the exact same thing and it would have looked just like last time and he could have just written me off as a bad player if he got me lynched to absolve himself of the mistake. I don’t really see him being scum taking the WIFOM route of taking our history into account because why would scum feel a need to tailor their play towards a single player they played with exactly once? His quick timing to correct himself also comes off as more Towny to me - scum would more likely have double checked their post to make sure what they said makes sense. This looked like a knee-jerk response followed by realization they read the post wrong.

4) I don’t have any other suspicions right now so I can’t try to name a whole team right now.

5) Macabre’s posts are confusing to me and if they continue to be then I doubt I’ll be able to read him and would rather lynch it than keep having to keep being confused. If I stop being confused by their posts then I’ll be willing to change my vote. My problem with Profii isn’t big enough to change from Macabre because I can develop a better understanding of Profii to know if they’re scum or not as the game goes on.

Thanks! A few more questions:

-Knowing that I am scarf boy and profii is chimera, which of Mac's posts don't you understand?

-Given this:

insomnia - why ask that question? it doesn't help you figure him out

alch - yes it does, it tells me that he responds well to pressure

The bolded is the issue. I don't want to be endlessly harassed doesn't mean I like pressure or I respond well to it. It just means i am not going to take my ball and go home every time I am pressured.

Do you agree that your conclusion of Wimpy was premature/incorrect? (If not, please explain how the last two lines are not true).

-Lastly, do you think this reasoning is valid:

To add to Wimpy's post: it is AI because it indicates that were not making a genuine attempt at game solving and that your reasoning was made up after the fact in response to somni's inquiry.

(And if not, why?)