Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Pine]

Alisae replaces Nachomamma8, effective immediately

BOOOOOO

(not you Ali ilu 5eva, but I keep getting screwed out of playing with Nacho)

[popsofctown]

Nachomamma8 replaces Alisae, effective immediately.

[Nachomamma8]

I am grateful for this new lease on life. I will attack this game with renewed vigor shortly.

[Pine]

Oh my stars, the emotional rollercoaster!

Hi Nacho

[Nachomamma8]

It's good to see you, old friend.

May our dance together shine as bright as the righteous fire of my scumhunting fueled by the graciousness and gorgeousness of my savior to whom I am personally indebted, the venerable Alibae.

[Nachomamma8]

I will also make it extraordinarily clear that I am very firmly against the idea of sparing and only sparing.

Currently the town who went for a straight spare lost and the town who did not won. Sparing and doing nothing but sparing is bad because of the echo chamber effect; good scumhunting doesn't occur in the absence of BLOOD - you never truly meet the man until you hold him at the volcano's edge.

[Nachomamma8]

I feel surprisingly good about Hectic being town, considering it being page 5 and all.

There's a gorgeous feel good concoction brewing over there - a healthy mix of a strong, confident tone and a gimmick that I believe scum would be less comfortable implementing than town. The combination of both gives a loose cannon feel which I feel is significantly less likely coming from scum - as scum, you are forced to contend with your partners whispering in your ear and also silently sort of judging you whenever you are doing something crazy as Hectic is doing now whereas as town the people who lynch you are technically wrong, so it often feels less risky to go off the ranch in significant a way as Hectic has.

Now, some people might point out that Sherlock is also doing a gimmick and no I don't think it has anything to do with his alignment - that's his posting in general (aka seems like someone made a gimmick alt) and thus there's an expectation that he keeps up with it/a higher chance that's something he decided to do when he made the alt as opposed to a gametime decision like Hectic likely made here.

In the bits of scumhunting that he's done there's not obviously a ton but I do like that he pointed out the +town on Chemist's entrance. I don't understand why Billy ends up his spare vote instead of the Chemist (why go for the diluted townjuice when you can go for the pure stuff?), but I'm digging his vibes and so for now he is my spirit animal.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't understand why Billy ends up his spare vote instead of the Chemist (why go for the diluted townjuice when you can go for the pure stuff?)

(Especially since Billy didn't call Chemist town, really - he said that his opening was better than it usually was but then flipped it to a suspicion because Chemists openings are usually worse as town. Hectic, I think you misinterpreted Billy was making re:Chemist.)

[Nachomamma8]

BUT I DIGRESS

Detective Holmes, I am interested to hear what you think about my interpretation of Hectic's posts since we sit on different ends of the spectrum. I don't feel your problems with him are significant - I think it's pretty common to prod at things that feel weird in a game of lies and deceit; sometimes you tug at a weird thread and it becomes a thread where you misunderstand something but sometimes you tug at a weird thread and it becomes scum making up reasoning so they can make a move that benefits Team Baddie. If it's late in the game and Hectic is still pursuing "weird" and has nothing he wants to burn to the ground then we can have some words but until then I think your efforts are better spent elsewhere.

Chemist's opening is a light town. My thoughts are that town are more likely get in a huff or respond with sharp edges in the way that he did when he was confronted with a false accusation simply because they have the Mandate of Heaven in the form of that sweet sweet town role PM. Town read is bolstered by the good townread on Hectic and then immediately going off the ranch with his Asriel townread.

Artist who formerly was not Chara, a towncore is nothing if not tested. Games with limited flips are decidedly anti-town. Please don't get lured to the "we find town and we win! easy game!" siren call.

[Nachomamma8]

HURT: Amrun

i remember you being more uncomfortable in your scum shoes than your town ones, and here you don't say hi and you don't engage with the game when it is the easiest to engage with - i get busy but i don't think that avoidance wasn't busy.

were you annoyed with the roleplay heavy and didn't want to play spoiler? what do you think of my thoughts so far? what can i do to make the game better for you so we can skip down this road together and crush all of those bad monsters that stand in our way?

[Nachomamma8]

and finally one more thought before i tear myself away.

even if we spare today (i don't think we should), and even if we spare all four days (i !!!REALLY!!! don't think we should), i think it'd be beneficial for the town to try to flush out some baddies first. hectic brought up that there's more town than scum and townies can sometimes be scummy and scum struggle to be townie (which I disagree with but different time different place) - not making an earnest effort to find them makes looking townie a hell of a lot easier. the thing that makes scum scum is the lying and it's much harder for scum to lie and say "that person i know is town is scum" or "you are wrong about my partner that you caught" than it is for them to say "i'm town! the townie everyone thinks is town!".

think about it, friends. don't let this young dragon's words of wisdom fall on deaf ears.

[Nachomamma8]

i did also read the setup and my personal goal is to lynch scum D1 and then spare three townies from the towncore fallout and force mafia to kill themselves.

because that would be friggin' sweet.

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

i did also read the setup and my personal goal is to lynch scum D1 and then spare three townies from the towncore fallout and force mafia to kill themselves.

because that would be friggin' sweet.

Golly, this is a bold plan to put forth. My master recently played a game where he had to lynch town, and mafia needed to get themselves lynched to win. They managed to lynch town for first 5 days, and he found townhunting much easier than scumhunting. However, you make a good point that we get no confirmation in this game about those we SPARE being town or mafia. In that game, scum had reason to lynch town to build up towncred, in this they don't.
I now believe the best strategy is to adapt based on how strong your reads are. Is there an obvtown floating around? SPARE them. Is there someone you're confident is scum? FIGHT them.

[Hectic]

HEAL: Chemist

[alimdia]

V/LA for 24 hours due to the weekend and rl stuff

[JTheophrastus Bartholomew]

V/LA until Monday because sports

[JTheophrastus Bartholomew]

@Nacho, hectic is an established gimmicker - if you didn't know that already - and I don't doubt for a second he would be incapable of doing it as scum given his extensive practice.

[Chara]

Artist who formerly was not Chara, a towncore is nothing if not tested. Games with limited flips are decidedly anti-town. Please don't get lured to the "we find town and we win! easy game!" siren call.

while i prefer townhunting, i don't believe that makes this "easy". you do make a good point i hadn't fully considered, in that only sparing our supposed friends leaves the possibility that they are not so loyal as they appear, with no way of knowing the truth.

and a true friend would probably forgive me if i HURT them...
excuse me, fought them.

[Chara]

@Nacho, hectic is an established gimmicker - if you didn't know that already - and I don't doubt for a second he would be incapable of doing it as scum given his extensive practice.

what do you think of him so far? he has many faces, but i don't dislike them... even if a few are a little annoying.

his comedy routine aside, he's taking the very important process of dividing friends from not-friends seriously enough.

[Sujimichi]

I am going to be away for tomorrow and half of Monday. I like the contribution that Nachomamma8 has made so far, especially given the style of posting from others that I have seen so far is difficult for me to parse. I also will say that I originally thought searching for townreads would be most beneficial until Nachomamma8 pointed out the flaw in that thought process (which is something I am disappointed in myself for not realizing).

Townread for me at the point.

[Nachomamma8]

I now believe the best strategy is to adapt based on how strong your reads are. Is there an obvtown floating around? SPARE them. Is there someone you're confident is scum? FIGHT them.

I agree wholeheartedly, little one.
This is the approach that I would also like to take, with one small accompaniment - it is less punishing to be wrong when picking a fight than it is when sparing a soul, and so I'm more likely to hurt than heal.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho, hectic is an established gimmicker - if you didn't know that already - and I don't doubt for a second he would be incapable of doing it as scum given his extensive practice.

This is my first time playing with him (I think?) so I didn't know that and I appreciate you pointing that out.

Calling the practice extensive, though - I think that means that we either have very different definitions of the word or my language when talking about my initial read on him was less precise than I'd hoped it would be. I'm not disputing that Hectic would be able to gimmick post as scum; I simply believe that if Hectic was scum, then he wouldn't be able to pull off the gimmick and have it present quite the same way, and I think a cursory glance of his completed games lends a bit of credence to my point.

A bit of homework for you:

Skim Hectic's posting in this game and compare it to his posting in this game. There are some stark differences (some more obvious than others), but in particular, I want you to focus on the difference in tone. How free and willing to take crazy swings in one game versus the other? Can you see where he seems very focused on his self-image in one versus the other?

If he is scum this game, he's doing an exceptional job in taking risks and putting himself out there (and making it count) - little things like immediately claiming his character or choosing a gimmick that could very easily backfire on him (aka people get pissed off and lynch him) and making them immediately and confidently which might not seem like a big deal now that most people have accepted it. And for a cherry on top, he's doing a good job of dropping in some organic scumhunting when he could attempt to hide behind a gimmick that will make a majority of people ignore him anyways.

[Nachomamma8]

hit a button and didn't intend to..... this post is the complete version....

@Nacho, hectic is an established gimmicker - if you didn't know that already - and I don't doubt for a second he would be incapable of doing it as scum given his extensive practice.

This is my first time playing with him (I think?) so I didn't know that and I appreciate you pointing that out.

Calling the practice extensive, though - I think that means that we either have very different definitions of the word or my language when talking about my initial read on him was less precise than I'd hoped it would be. I'm not disputing that Hectic would be able to gimmick post as scum; I simply believe that if Hectic was scum, then he wouldn't be able to pull off the gimmick and have it present quite the same way, and I think a cursory glance of his completed games lends a bit of credence to my point.

A bit of homework for you:

Skim Hectic's posting in this game and compare it to his posting in this game. There are some stark differences (some more obvious than others), but in particular, I want you to focus on the difference in tone. How free and willing to take crazy swings in one game versus the other? Can you see where he seems very focused on his self-image in one versus the other?

If he is scum this game, he's doing an exceptional job in taking risks and putting himself out there (and making it count) - little things like immediately claiming his character or choosing a gimmick that could very easily backfire on him (aka people get pissed off and lynch him) and making them immediately and confidently which might not seem like a big deal now that most people have accepted it, but for someone who has one completed game as far as I can tell, this is a big deal and a stark difference.

The second point, as Chara alluded to, is the scumhunting that he's done. In particular, I liked his push on Sherlock - the "Town players can act scummy a lot of the time. It's harder for a mafia player to act very naturally towny, and that's the people we're SPARING" piece seemed genuine especially keeping the games of his that I've skimmed in mind, and I think that him calling Chemist town and instead sparing Billy Pilgrim is something that mafia would avoid simply because there's no good reason for Hectic as scum to deviate from the straight line of "call town, spare town".

[popsofctown]

Steak in the Shape of Metatron's Head