Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

going to stop spamming, other assorted thoughts:

- ico posting in the past day or so has been townie af
- i strongly disagree with the shos/team rce scumread and i don't super love that they're angling to push there
- the catchup itself is kinda decent, but the posts he's made while interacting with the thread on his own yesterday were p awful ... like when he has people feeding him thoguhts his posting is decent but his own posting is just kinda bad ? like the ico vote yesterday was p awful and was based on taking a variety of things out of context
- i'm trying to gauge what part of the game his team read ... the meat of the catchup is within the last 20 pages or so, i'm not sure if they just started reading to give him thoughts when he got to l-1/l-2 or if those were thoughts that they had all along as things developed
- @teacher, @ico what do you think about shos / team catchup?
- i'm kinda confused by the wagon dynamics overall - i couldn't get this going for like forever, finally yesterday after yet another appeal it reaches l-1/intent pretty quickly, with multiple people giving intent, and then when the team catchup thing happens multiple people unvote without engaging the meat of it
- ari is still obvtown
- idk if scum!saudade comes into this game with this trajectory on rc unless he's like exactly scum with shos ... like if he's scum with not-shos why doesn't he just join the shos thing instead of poking rc. or i guess he could be scum with rc but even so then why doesn't he join the push that rc has been backing ?
- i don't want to lynch rc today
- i am kinda interested in wagoning math tbh. but i literally don't have the energy to wrangle another toxic thing rn so i'm not sure if i want to do this and i'm not sure avoiding it is the right decision either

OK so I've been going backwards first before I start ISOing shit. I currently have *FIVE* votes on me. Can anyone tell me why? I mean is this reminiscent from Plum or are we like, actually voting me before I even know your names?

pedit
sure thing, go

mostly because i've been pushing you since daystart
(well, really plum, not you)
i dislike most of her content yesterday and i thought her vote on tw was the worst, felt like scum taking advantage of a significant conflict to score a mislynch
and your pop-in yesterday was scary bad
also you/saud as a pair have quite a lot of partner equity going all the way back to like p1

[skitter30]

i'm getting a little nervous by the broad popular support of the shos thing
like once i posted yesterday all of a sudden like 6/7 people indicated interest and it got to l-1 p fast, with multiple giving l-1 and/or stating an intent

I would suggest catching up entirely.

RC did his whole back off the wagon soon as I asked a question bit of shos.

I would like your opinion on that.

I realize shos has not answered the question I want your opinion of RC’s reaction to me asking it.

i thought ur question was decent, rc's reaction was bad but probably not ai

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm still not scum by the way.

[skitter30]

sigh

i'm kinda at the point where reading you two bicker is just making me want to nope tf out of the thread

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't see why not scum with shos saudade doesn't start setting up a mislynch on me for tomorrow exactly

[skitter30]

i mean wouldn't that necessitate town!shos getting lynched today tho ?

[MathBlade]

sigh

i'm kinda at the point where reading you two bicker is just making me want to nope tf out of the thread

I am not bickering with RC I am trying to sort shos and if he is scum who with.

His reads look wrong and so I was looking to see how you took that specifically.

Do you think Shos is town? If so who do you think is the major contributor to the wagon town or scum?

If Shos is town then is RC also town? If so who do you think scum could be?

I don’t know how you see the gamestate and I would like to know.

[skitter30]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

[RadiantCowbells]

yes it would but my point is that saudade's actions make sense as scum either with or without shos. if shos is town sau can still reasonably expect 1/2 of me or shos to be the lynch today.
and now he's laying the groundwork for the push on me and etc.

i feel like in my current position i don't have enough towncred or ~respect~ to lead a wagon and so i'm essentially just required to trust you to lead on scum because if you don't you get nightkilled, i just get lynched tomorrow and town just flat out loses.

i just want you to take the possibility of wagoning sau and/or mathblade over shos seriously. noting that again i've barely tried to read shos's team stuff and this is more a big picture thing

[skitter30]

i'll be back in a sec, sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

i kinda just give up tbh.

[MathBlade]

yes it would but my point is that saudade's actions make sense as scum either with or without shos. if shos is town sau can still reasonably expect 1/2 of me or shos to be the lynch today.
and now he's laying the groundwork for the push on me and etc.

i feel like in my current position i don't have enough towncred or ~respect~ to lead a wagon and so i'm essentially just required to trust you to lead on scum because if you don't you get nightkilled, i just get lynched tomorrow and town just flat out loses.

i just want you to take the possibility of wagoning sau and/or mathblade over shos seriously. noting that again i've barely tried to read shos's team stuff and this is more a big picture thing

Then the reason you aren’t voting saud is because....?

I get the feeling you’re voting me because you don’t like the questions I am asking here RC. I was sorting some cognitive dissonance I saw in the team’s reads posted by Shos.

Getting Shos to talk about more slots if scum is good for spew. If Shos is town it’s good for future reads.

It also helps to sort Raybells too. What do you make of him saying if Shos flips town it would be your fault?

[MathBlade]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

Elaboration on why you’d look at that grouping would be appreciated.

[RadiantCowbells]

you're correct i'm not you because i don't like the questions you're asking. not scumreading me is not cogdis. you're just too much tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

i think everyone has this weird attitude that as long as i'm not flipped, pushing on RC solely for the purpose of mislynching him cannot be used as a scumtell because he ~could be scum~

[skitter30]

yes it would but my point is that saudade's actions make sense as scum either with or without shos. if shos is town sau can still reasonably expect 1/2 of me or shos to be the lynch today.

oh yeah i kinda see your point actually

[skitter30]

i kinda just give up tbh.

yeah i'm feeling like this game is ... very hard
hard to play
hard to navigate

[teacher]

Shade? I'm pointing out that everyone's been assuming you were a protective with an inno on Mathblade when that's not true and it was the main reason to townread both of you.

This one. It shows a true attempt to game out various possibilities and understand the subtext of the resistance you were getting from a town POV.

I’m still grading and binging suits, but will get on latter. @skit - I wanted to reread the ketchup, it was difficult to parse but seemed oddly tilted towards weird times to read into and designed to give the lamisty flavor of an entirely new take, but one that wouldn’t find support when read against plums real-time posting (something I hav not done but mean to). Overall, it didn’t buy a ticket out of my Lynch pool but it did but some time for reflection whenever I do sit at a comp.

[MathBlade]

Shade? I'm pointing out that everyone's been assuming you were a protective with an inno on Mathblade when that's not true and it was the main reason to townread both of you.

This one. It shows a true attempt to game out various possibilities and understand the subtext of the resistance you were getting from a town POV.

I’m still grading and binging suits, but will get on latter. @skit - I wanted to reread the ketchup, it was difficult to parse but seemed oddly tilted towards weird times to read into and designed to give the lamisty flavor of an entirely new take, but one that wouldn’t find support when read against plums real-time posting (something I hav not done but mean to). Overall, it didn’t buy a ticket out of my Lynch pool but it did but some time for reflection whenever I do sit at a comp.

What do you make of RC outing a protective theory?

And then now going back on it?

I find that odd town!RC would ever out such a theory?

[RadiantCowbells]

from my point of view, like, with the sheer density of my townreads on the wagons that aren't RC there literally have to be scum on that wagon
also from a gamestate sense if you take for granted that i'm town doesn't it seem pretty damn likely that at least one scum wants to be voting there

like i can believe that there's at least one scum on the other side who is hard towning me to stay on my good side but like there's also probably scum driving the opposition

and on a personal level if that group is entirely town i just truly don't care if it's a loss, whereas i think that the scum pulling that shit needs to be punished

[skitter30]

i still think shos is scum
if he flips scum i think that a good place to start looking for partners is in {saudade, math, ico}. also teacher, i think

if he flips town my view of the gamestate is very very very wrong and i will need to start rebulding my understanding of the game kinda from scratch; i would be looking at rc in that universe, tho i think, yes

Elaboration on why you’d look at that grouping would be appreciated.

- you because you started freaking out on me when i kept pushing shos's slot, and you never really gave a good reason for that whole push
- saudade because of all the tris/plum stuff, and he's just ... utterly rejecting the shos wagon for like no reason ?
- i'm a little nervous about shos's ico vote, it felt-distance-y. but this is entirely on shos's side and i think that independantly i tr ico. least strong of the associatives
- teacher is something that i'm still mulling over but i noticed in the catchup today his team brought up a sr on teacher, he didn't end up in their final list of reads. and i don't partiuclarly like teacher's vote (and/or intent, i don't remember which), unvote on promising to read through shos's catchup later, but not following through with that. felt like an excuse to hop off the wagon to me a bit idk this isn't like a ~strong thought~ yet it's some things that are tickling the back of my mind

[teacher]

You’ve essentially outed a protective theory, ya?

[RadiantCowbells]

What do you make of RC outing a protective theory?

And then now going back on it?

I find that odd town!RC would ever out such a theory?

You find it odd that Town!RC would disprove a theory that several people were incorrectly using to clear a person that I think is playing like scum? That's what you're saying?

I only outed the "protective theory" when it was disproven, thanks.

[MathBlade]

You’ve essentially outed a protective theory, ya?

No? I have said I have had a hunch I was protected but never said whom.

What motivation would townRC have for outing who?

Granted my subtlety may need work but I never said who.

[skitter30]

I’m still grading and binging suits, but will get on latter. @skit - I wanted to reread the ketchup, it was difficult to parse but seemed oddly tilted towards weird times to read into and designed to give the lamisty flavor of an entirely new take, but one that wouldn’t find support when read against plums real-time posting (something I hav not done but mean to). Overall, it didn’t buy a ticket out of my Lynch pool but it did but some time for reflection whenever I do sit at a comp.

oh fair enough, i hadn't seen this yet, i would like to hear ur thoughts on it when you get to a pc

yeah i think that this is kinda what i'm wondering ... like i'm not sure that all of these thoughts weren't generated for the event of shos reaching intent, esp. since it seems to be back-heavy focused (i.e. most of the thoughts of the team seem about things that happened in the last couple of irl days)
and not that much with when plum was around (/ not around)

how are you reading ari rn