Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Elsa Jay]

You did it. You graduated in using the. Spoiler tag.

Use it wisely if you have to quote 5 or more things. Just put the first part at the beginning before the quotes and the second one after them.

[Eddie Cane]

@NaCl (and @SS maybe?)

Spoiler: Not game solving related advice

I just want to post this because it could have been a pretty significant difference. Purely as advice for future games. Just the full explanation to what Hectic and I previously said.

Doing a gambit like that is fine. 1 scum alive, open setup, there is close to 0 risk. The worst case is you are nightkilled, DDL is confirmed not the doc, and that's that. Same thing that would have happened without the gambit. I'd say its a good play, props to you or SS (if he's town ) for thinking of it.

The problem is, the follow through. You are not supposed to put a save on DDL there unless you are close to 100% confident he is town (which I don't think you should be here, but in general). Landing a save does not earn town another kill. If nobody dies, it confirms that scum is SS or DDL. If you or I or Oka or somebody else dies, that would not have been preventable by saving DDL. If DDL dies, it removes a slot from the PoE, which is effectively another kill gifted to us by the mafia. It is a good thing for DDL to die there! We are at a PoE of 6 with him alive, and still only have 5 kills.

Now, assume you do think DDL is lock town and put a save on him, and nobody dies - what happened this game. You'll notice DDL did not start the day claiming not-doc. That's because outing there is bad. You are now in the world where you are aiming for a second save, most likely on SS but myself or Oka is also possible. The role cop is dead, so they cannot hunt the real doc. The second save buys us that 6th kill. Again, the worst case is you die, and we figure out what happened regardless of SS' alignment. The only time you out today is if you are close to being lynched. Both myself and Oka (the ICs) had said we think you are town / the last slot in the PoE, which is actually the sweet spot because you are not townie enough to get nightkilled randomly and you are not scummy enough to get lynched. DDL is obviously going to defend you as well. Nobody is going to strongman a lynch against the 3 ICs. You were not in danger of dying today. Outing does not actually have any benefit. We are actually worse off than I thought we were by a little bit, because I think independently you were townier than DDL is.

You've played a pretty good game dude, no beef. Just explaining what the mistake and follow up mistake was was so it doesn't happen in another game.

[Eddie Cane]

I like... kind of want to just chain lynch the PoE so people here can focus on other games. But in the sake of due diligence, we should probably establish a proper order. I think people agree on my proposed {Piss, Elsa, Bob, Hectic} being the first 4 kills, but not the order? And I am unsure who I'd kill in SS and DDL if it really went that far, so I'm hoping it doesn't.

@NaCl just sheep me on Titus town. Blame me if I'm wrong.

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler: some DDL posts that lean town I think

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

i might be slowly warming up pops scum, but i think i need the bread to stayed in the oven a bit longer first.

rn im not convinced.

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

i might be slowly warming up pops scum, but i think i need the bread to stayed in the oven a bit longer first.

rn im not convinced.

If one of pop and eddie is town and the otehr scum. Who would you think is the most likely to eb scum and why?

And if you had to vote for one over the other who would it be

i have no idea bob. im not even sure 1 is town and 1 is scum so im polling the public. gun to my head eddie town

What do I do when I dont support any of the wagons

Could be partner dismissing us as TvT when he doesn't think I can get lynched...

VOTE: unwnd

and then votes the other partner which would (soft) confirm me as town and lead to a probable Pops d2 lynch...? Heh. I think this is just town.

[Eddie Cane]

Like at that stage people had Krazy/Eddie as TvT and Pops/Eddie as TvS. I doubt the third partner decides to bus the slot that's widely regarded as townier.

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie, Oka, NaCl are ICs.
Nancy's interactions with Krazy are not SvS.
Titus is not scum.
Amrun (probably) was not hard bussing.

You need to find another town in DDL and SS to have proper auto, but honestly, I think both are town and the game will not go that far. Dunno who I'd pick in a DDL SS + Amrun/Nancy/Titus f3, but that hypothetical world would not be my decision. The more I read, the more I think it just is not going to get there.

Piss has some individual townie posts but awful associations and game positioning.
Elsa is a nonfactor.
Hectic has more highs and more lows than Piss. But more independent posts that sound town I think.
Bob... still sounds like a script rather than a player. Still dunno if I agree he should die before the above 3.

[DrDolittle]

im 50% bob, 30% pisskop, 20% everyone else rn

[DrDolittle]

yeah VOTE: bob

like rn we have 11 town and 1 scum. Plus your TM partners, that's 44 town players. I don't think there's a single person that thinks bob is town. Meanwhile, I have seen floating pisskop-town reads from amrun and some other teammates

bob's play is so robotic here, and the interaction w/ pops, unwnd is honestly not great either if you'd care to take a look.

[DrDolittle]

that is bob is town* by play and post and not via Pine NK

[Eddie Cane]

I'll be honest I think chaining those 4 people ends the game and we shouldn't overthink it.

I'm ready to end the day after Oka and NaCl are in the same place as me.

[bob3141]

Eddie, Oka, NaCl are ICs.
Nancy's interactions with Krazy are not SvS.
Titus is not scum.
Amrun (probably) was not hard bussing.

You need to find another town in DDL and SS to have proper auto, but honestly, I think both are town and the game will not go that far. Dunno who I'd pick in a DDL SS + Amrun/Nancy/Titus f3, but that hypothetical world would not be my decision. The more I read, the more I think it just is not going to get there.

Piss has some individual townie posts but awful associations and game positioning.
Elsa is a nonfactor.
Hectic has more highs and more lows than Piss. But more independent posts that sound town I think.
Bob... still sounds like a script rather than a player. Still dunno if I agree he should die before the above 3.

what is with everyone saying i sound like a robot. Im not a robot

[bob3141]

yeah VOTE: bob

like rn we have 11 town and 1 scum. Plus your TM partners, that's 44 town players. I don't think there's a single person that thinks bob is town. Meanwhile, I have seen floating pisskop-town reads from amrun and some other teammates

bob's play is so robotic here, and the interaction w/ pops, unwnd is honestly not great either if you'd care to take a look.

what about my play and post makes you think im not town

how is my interaction with pops bad. How could my posts be any other way

[Micc]

Votecount 3.02

pisskop (4) -

Nancy Drew 39, OkaPoka, Elsa Jay, Titus

NaCl (1) -

Hectic

bob3141 (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (6) -

Eddie Cane, Something_Smart, pisskop, Amrun, NaCl, bob3141

With 12 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2020-02-05 00:15:00).

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am so happy my NaCl tr was correct.

I still think DDL is town on play, completely ignoring he was very likely saved.

And Titus with her ridiculously wrong VCA, was sr me for never being on NaCl wagon, oh the irony!

True. I was convinced he was scum. I think this new medication I am on may impact my VCA abilities.

That’s usually why VCA works a lot better, once you have flips. Since NaCl was never flipped. not a great basis to form AI based associatives with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@NaCl (and @SS maybe?)

Spoiler: Not game solving related advice

I just want to post this because it could have been a pretty significant difference. Purely as advice for future games. Just the full explanation to what Hectic and I previously said.

Doing a gambit like that is fine. 1 scum alive, open setup, there is close to 0 risk. The worst case is you are nightkilled, DDL is confirmed not the doc, and that's that. Same thing that would have happened without the gambit. I'd say its a good play, props to you or SS (if he's town ) for thinking of it.

The problem is, the follow through. You are not supposed to put a save on DDL there unless you are close to 100% confident he is town (which I don't think you should be here, but in general). Landing a save does not earn town another kill. If nobody dies, it confirms that scum is SS or DDL. If you or I or Oka or somebody else dies, that would not have been preventable by saving DDL. If DDL dies, it removes a slot from the PoE, which is effectively another kill gifted to us by the mafia. It is a good thing for DDL to die there! We are at a PoE of 6 with him alive, and still only have 5 kills.

Now, assume you do think DDL is lock town and put a save on him, and nobody dies - what happened this game. You'll notice DDL did not start the day claiming not-doc. That's because outing there is bad. You are now in the world where you are aiming for a second save, most likely on SS but myself or Oka is also possible. The role cop is dead, so they cannot hunt the real doc. The second save buys us that 6th kill. Again, the worst case is you die, and we figure out what happened regardless of SS' alignment. The only time you out today is if you are close to being lynched. Both myself and Oka (the ICs) had said we think you are town / the last slot in the PoE, which is actually the sweet spot because you are not townie enough to get nightkilled randomly and you are not scummy enough to get lynched. DDL is obviously going to defend you as well. Nobody is going to strongman a lynch against the 3 ICs. You were not in danger of dying today. Outing does not actually have any benefit. We are actually worse off than I thought we were by a little bit, because I think independently you were townier than DDL is.

You've played a pretty good game dude, no beef. Just explaining what the mistake and follow up mistake was was so it doesn't happen in another game.

I dunno, I think saving DDL was a good thing, No NKs are ever good for town and best part, it totally deflates last scum’s morale. There is nothing like your NK failing to absolutely crush scum. I was SK in Overkill 1 and when my NKs failed due to an idiotic Lightening rod, I pretty much lost all enthusiasm for that game, so I thought it was great.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is a terrible format for a game tbh

I should have realized Krazy was likely scum from this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is a terrible format for a game tbh

I should have realized Krazy was likely scum from this.

Scum more often than not bitch about format/mechanics when the game is this townsided. But the whole “massive apology” thing threw me.

[Titus]

I am so happy my NaCl tr was correct.

I still think DDL is town on play, completely ignoring he was very likely saved.

And Titus with her ridiculously wrong VCA, was sr me for never being on NaCl wagon, oh the irony!

True. I was convinced he was scum. I think this new medication I am on may impact my VCA abilities.

That’s usually why VCA works a lot better, once you have flips. Since NaCl was never flipped. not a great basis to form AI based associatives with.

I normally don't for precisely that reason but I was so sure NaCl was scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

eddie what is ur thought on pine/piss/pops as a team

Piss vs elsa?

what are you talking about, pisskop just obvtowned

I thought it was just unwind but Krazy was also pushing Elsa > Piss.

[OkaPoka]

that was a shitpost nancy

post 1896

but it is true that krazy was tring piss a lot

[Nancy Drew 39]

that was a shitpost nancy

post 1896

but it is true that krazy was tring piss a lot

Well 1635 is more telling because he just opportunistically threw Elsa’s name in there when Eddie hadn’t even mentioned her. I can’t imagine scum!Krazy pivots to Elsa to save Piss if they are SvT.

[Nancy Drew 39]

that was a shitpost nancy

post 1896

but it is true that krazy was tring piss a lot

Well 1635 is more telling because he just opportunistically threw Elsa’s name in there when Oka hadn’t even mentioned her. I can’t imagine scum!Krazy pivots to Elsa to save Piss if they are SvT.

[Amrun]

How the hell do I not got a single vote? Why are we back on Pops? Who the fuck is Eddie?

I have so many questions.

VOTE: Eddie

Eh. From what I've read, I don't like Eddie much. So I'll recontribute again day 2 but for now I'm okay with your lynch.

I still think this series of posts, in context, looks terrible.


LOL at the gambit, pretty clutch clear there.

DDL will never be voted by me anyways.

VOTE: elsa


I’m kinda disinterested in this game lately cuz it’s on lock.

[Elsa Jay]

If you want to lynch me they already agreed they're lynching me after Pisskop, so vote Pisskop to end today faster and so you can get your wish.

[Hectic]

I’m kinda disinterested in this game lately cuz it’s on lock.

Lul, same. I'm happy to sheep Eddie and lynch his 4 proposals tbh. Thought about reISOing Titus/SS just in case but eh, I'll take the carry.

If after me, Pissy, Elsa, and Bob are dead, and the game isn't over, my guess would be SS. DDL's thoughts EoD yesterday when we all thought he was doc that was gonna die felt really townie.