Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[Aristophanes]

Bella I'll do the thing on Saudade when I get home.

[Aristophanes]

How much longer until Xtoxm and Shos are back?

I want to talk to new people.

[MathBlade]

Like you have now come to an agreement on Ari and I believe on Skitter (if I'm town). So let's just put this from my point of view where I know I'm town and I believe the other two are town.
What should I be doing if not telling anyone hey guys please don't listen to mathblade because their reads are bad when I don't have the towncred or general clout in this lobby to counter your wagons any other way

What exactly do I do here? I can't negotiate with you, you ignore all my arguments because they come from me and call me bad. I can't use general clout/townread to circumvent your reads because I have none, and I have none because in a significant part you have chosen to spend most of the day discrediting me and my reads. What I can do is explain in a rational objective sense why your reads aren't good.

The alternative is to just let you drive the game off of a cliff which based on the fact that you agree with my townreads if I'm town you should agree you're doing fmpov, so...

On Ari it’s more I am the only one who scumreads them it seems.

On Skitter it’s more the most likely world is you + Skitter. Skitter not wanting to vote me when the shos wagon was dead was horrible.

First of all, instead of just saying I suck or my reads suck (assuming you’re town) you should be working on your own reads. Without reads of your own and looking at your own faults it just comes off as toxic and desperate scum.

I apologize for the word unhinged in a prior post. I did not mean it in that manner but I can see that interpretation. What I meant was more grasping at straws/desperate.

Right now it feels like you’re just attacking people who agree with me. Titus says this is very much your scum meta and BBMolla says you need to be lynched so the game is not toxic.

I understand that you don’t agree with my reads but without reads of your own, you can say my read on you is bad, but everywhere else that feels like there is bias that you’re predisposed to either me sucking specifically or can’t handle anyone else being a town leader.

Some of the reactions when I am actively trying to prove/case your point in agreement with you and you back off really doesn’t make sense. You saw the possibility of a protective and then chose to dismantle it instead of trying to investigate the possibility of me maybe being good town.

And even if I am wrong on every read I am explaining why so people can understand. Notice when teacher was talking with me, he met me where I was and tried to calmly explain his point of view and I saw my mistake. Your attitude of Math has a 21% win rate and not to listen carte Blanche is pretty bad and toxic. Hyperposting to try to get your way and “win” when if you’re town and don’t know what it is is bad. If you’re gonna hyperpost without knowing ask questions to people about others for associatives that can be looked at later.

Right now like to be fair I think you’re scum but you also do have a valid point that I don’t know if you can work with me and I would rather play an untoxic game and then go back on hiatus from the site than a toxic one.

[MathBlade]

once you flip scum im going to add you on skype and laugh at you in voice call

I get you’re posting the things I want to post when I am angry but please don’t do this and post more toxic shit.

If you’re town please everyone let’s adult here and talk shit out.

I really think RC is scum and am very much unimpressed with Skitter’s reasoning for why RC is town. Tone and motivations was the gist of it. I think RC’s tone is genuine but genuine isn’t always town. I also do not see town motivations in domineering the thread on day one and stopping discussion. Whether my reads were good or not, I was chosen as the NK over RC which means more of the Town was willing to have a more chill collaborative atmosphere.

I cannot see the town motivation to just make people not care about the game anymore. There’s no reason to have this many posts in a game. Like posting so much to force yourself to be the center of attention is pretty scummy because it forces the rest of town to try to follow suit. It’s why I doubt that a majority of scum are in the lurkers. The post rate is insane. If this was a normal Normal I would agree with you but it isn’t.

[MathBlade]

i'm actually voting for a scum win atp.

I still don’t get this. If you’re rooting for scum you’re working against town?

This is one of many times you’ve moped (been sad) in thread after being pointed out it is antitown. This post doesn’t add anything. How is this Townie @Skitter?

[Aristophanes]

@Bella

Spoiler: A Compendium of Saudade Townposts

I hardclaim mason

Okay so this as a first actual post is interesting. My initial read on it was that he was an actual mason and I thought I actually found his partner at one point, I don't think so now but I stillthink scum don't jump in like this usually.

how many scum are there in a setup like this? 3?

are you one of them

I actually liked this setup and response despite it being a kinda throwaway question. Like I'm sure he knew there were 3 scum and I'm sure he also knew someone would respond to his question. It's a nice little reaction test waiting to happen and he used it to glean a read which is good follow-through. Town equity.

Saudade, is there really no game relevant commentary in you team thread?

can i have link to my team thread

are you on my team teacher

ok saudade is prob town

im always prob town
until i smak u

Iunno I just don't think this response is scummy but maybe he's a more brave scum than I think.

Ari are you going to scumhunt because so far everyones been posting walls and stuff and you were just amusing yourself looking througn my posts

I liked how he called me out on this. Could have very easily memed at me or continued on but instead said I should do something despite his prattling on. I think it was a very good call out and I like him for it.

You’d only be dealing with mass claim possibly if today is a mislynch. If we lynch scum mass claim doesn’t come into this. The fact you’re saying we would deal with mass claim logic tomorrow is troubling.

a) i'm generally a proponent of earlier massclaim than later massclaim tbh
b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

i said i wanted to revisit the rc thing, not that i was going to shout for massclaim tomorrow indiscriminately

Nah you had none of that qualifiers and early mass claim is stupid if deepwolves can exist.

I am pretty sure you’re scum.

i dont follow the logic why u scumread her now
chew it for me im very stupid

Asking for the breakdown in this fashion is very good and I really like it tbh. It makes Math take a step back and explain from the basics where he stands and that is hugely helpful. Honestly very fond of this post.

Look at Sau tryign to gently push the wagon onto Ari, look at Math's associatives with him this interaction fucking reeked

you will die today for this
DIE

WTF bro.

He's making a case and making a read. He looked at your posting and read the intention behind them, correctly or not, in this fashion.

If you are going to go berserker on anyone who misreads your intentions this really isn't a good passtime for you.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

well rc does have a history of being absolutely terrible
VOTE: unvote

The "Hmmm" post had me like ??? until he unvoted. He took a step back to reconsider things and diffused his attack rather than escalating it. It is very pro-solve rather than pro-scum.

The way you interacted with RC and did not let it derail the game thread is very good town

Once again, I liek the way he approached his reads here.

I dont have any scumreads... Im collecting townreads

I also am uu=sing this strategy so I am fond of those using it.

I think its more of a character trait of his to be really kind rather than him trying to buddy everyone

Good read of me is good and I'm a sucker for those who get me so...

So why do you town read skitter

You tried to dance around me there but I insist on hearing you out

I mean, goodposting.

You are over-reacting.
there's nothing wrong with pushing players whoever they may be to learn something

Totes true and while maybe not AI I think it once again is more likely from someone who wants to sort the game.

[MathBlade]

I am also looking forward to shos’s catch-up too. I gotta drive home but that’s some food for thought people.

Please put the toxicity behind us.

Right now both shos and RC are Ico and myself approved.

Can you all please vote there or talk scumreads please?

[RadiantCowbells]

Your attitude of Math has a 21% win rate and not to listen carte Blanche is pretty bad and toxic.

I'm playing to win and preventing mislynches is part of playing to win. It's not toxic to believe that some players are better or worse than others and to think that it's relevant information.

[MathBlade]

@Bella

Spoiler: A Compendium of Saudade Townposts

I hardclaim mason

Okay so this as a first actual post is interesting. My initial read on it was that he was an actual mason and I thought I actually found his partner at one point, I don't think so now but I stillthink scum don't jump in like this usually.

how many scum are there in a setup like this? 3?

are you one of them

I actually liked this setup and response despite it being a kinda throwaway question. Like I'm sure he knew there were 3 scum and I'm sure he also knew someone would respond to his question. It's a nice little reaction test waiting to happen and he used it to glean a read which is good follow-through. Town equity.

Saudade, is there really no game relevant commentary in you team thread?

can i have link to my team thread

are you on my team teacher

ok saudade is prob town

im always prob town
until i smak u

Iunno I just don't think this response is scummy but maybe he's a more brave scum than I think.

Ari are you going to scumhunt because so far everyones been posting walls and stuff and you were just amusing yourself looking througn my posts

I liked how he called me out on this. Could have very easily memed at me or continued on but instead said I should do something despite his prattling on. I think it was a very good call out and I like him for it.

You’d only be dealing with mass claim possibly if today is a mislynch. If we lynch scum mass claim doesn’t come into this. The fact you’re saying we would deal with mass claim logic tomorrow is troubling.

a) i'm generally a proponent of earlier massclaim than later massclaim tbh
b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

i said i wanted to revisit the rc thing, not that i was going to shout for massclaim tomorrow indiscriminately

Nah you had none of that qualifiers and early mass claim is stupid if deepwolves can exist.

I am pretty sure you’re scum.

i dont follow the logic why u scumread her now
chew it for me im very stupid

Asking for the breakdown in this fashion is very good and I really like it tbh. It makes Math take a step back and explain from the basics where he stands and that is hugely helpful. Honestly very fond of this post.

Look at Sau tryign to gently push the wagon onto Ari, look at Math's associatives with him this interaction fucking reeked

you will die today for this
DIE

WTF bro.

He's making a case and making a read. He looked at your posting and read the intention behind them, correctly or not, in this fashion.

If you are going to go berserker on anyone who misreads your intentions this really isn't a good passtime for you.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

well rc does have a history of being absolutely terrible
VOTE: unvote

The "Hmmm" post had me like ??? until he unvoted. He took a step back to reconsider things and diffused his attack rather than escalating it. It is very pro-solve rather than pro-scum.

The way you interacted with RC and did not let it derail the game thread is very good town

Once again, I liek the way he approached his reads here.

I dont have any scumreads... Im collecting townreads

I also am uu=sing this strategy so I am fond of those using it.

I think its more of a character trait of his to be really kind rather than him trying to buddy everyone

Good read of me is good and I'm a sucker for those who get me so...

So why do you town read skitter

You tried to dance around me there but I insist on hearing you out

I mean, goodposting.

You are over-reacting.
there's nothing wrong with pushing players whoever they may be to learn something

Totes true and while maybe not AI I think it once again is more likely from someone who wants to sort the game.

So Ari let’s assume for a moment that Saude is town.

What do you think of both Saude and myself reaching the conclusion RC is scum?

How does this jive with your townread?

Out of respect to my colleagues I am reevaluating my scumread of you, can you reevaluate your town read of RC? And maybe find a post or something that sticks out?

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe you could reevaluate your scumread on me?

Maybe you could agree that when I flip town and you've been pushing town relentlessly all game you should be shut up and not at the centre of some dumb ico/math townblock?

[Aristophanes]

Please put the toxicity behind us.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't put the toxicity behind us if you define toxic as telling people that Mathblade is bad and you shouldn't listen to them as long as I'm required to be telling people that because their reads are bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

If just telling people that the IC is a bad mafia player is toxic you're gonna have to vote me to stop the toxicity.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's hilarious how ego driven everyone is that no one is reactive to calling people an asshole or commentary on mental illness or whatever but you fall someone a BAD MAFIA PLAYER when they objectively are and ZOMG

Everyone loses their minds joker gif

[Aristophanes]

@Bella

Spoiler: A Compendium of Saudade Townposts

I hardclaim mason

Okay so this as a first actual post is interesting. My initial read on it was that he was an actual mason and I thought I actually found his partner at one point, I don't think so now but I stillthink scum don't jump in like this usually.

how many scum are there in a setup like this? 3?

are you one of them

I actually liked this setup and response despite it being a kinda throwaway question. Like I'm sure he knew there were 3 scum and I'm sure he also knew someone would respond to his question. It's a nice little reaction test waiting to happen and he used it to glean a read which is good follow-through. Town equity.

Saudade, is there really no game relevant commentary in you team thread?

can i have link to my team thread

are you on my team teacher

ok saudade is prob town

im always prob town
until i smak u

Iunno I just don't think this response is scummy but maybe he's a more brave scum than I think.

Ari are you going to scumhunt because so far everyones been posting walls and stuff and you were just amusing yourself looking througn my posts

I liked how he called me out on this. Could have very easily memed at me or continued on but instead said I should do something despite his prattling on. I think it was a very good call out and I like him for it.

You’d only be dealing with mass claim possibly if today is a mislynch. If we lynch scum mass claim doesn’t come into this. The fact you’re saying we would deal with mass claim logic tomorrow is troubling.

a) i'm generally a proponent of earlier massclaim than later massclaim tbh
b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

i said i wanted to revisit the rc thing, not that i was going to shout for massclaim tomorrow indiscriminately

Nah you had none of that qualifiers and early mass claim is stupid if deepwolves can exist.

I am pretty sure you’re scum.

i dont follow the logic why u scumread her now
chew it for me im very stupid

Asking for the breakdown in this fashion is very good and I really like it tbh. It makes Math take a step back and explain from the basics where he stands and that is hugely helpful. Honestly very fond of this post.

Look at Sau tryign to gently push the wagon onto Ari, look at Math's associatives with him this interaction fucking reeked

you will die today for this
DIE

WTF bro.

He's making a case and making a read. He looked at your posting and read the intention behind them, correctly or not, in this fashion.

If you are going to go berserker on anyone who misreads your intentions this really isn't a good passtime for you.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

well rc does have a history of being absolutely terrible
VOTE: unvote

The "Hmmm" post had me like ??? until he unvoted. He took a step back to reconsider things and diffused his attack rather than escalating it. It is very pro-solve rather than pro-scum.

The way you interacted with RC and did not let it derail the game thread is very good town

Once again, I liek the way he approached his reads here.

I dont have any scumreads... Im collecting townreads

I also am uu=sing this strategy so I am fond of those using it.

I think its more of a character trait of his to be really kind rather than him trying to buddy everyone

Good read of me is good and I'm a sucker for those who get me so...

So why do you town read skitter

You tried to dance around me there but I insist on hearing you out

I mean, goodposting.

You are over-reacting.
there's nothing wrong with pushing players whoever they may be to learn something

Totes true and while maybe not AI I think it once again is more likely from someone who wants to sort the game.

So Ari let’s assume for a moment that Saude is town.

What do you think of both Saude and myself reaching the conclusion RC is scum?

How does this jive with your townread?

Out of respect to my colleagues I am reevaluating my scumread of you, can you reevaluate your town read of RC? And maybe find a post or something that sticks out?

I would absolutely love to but he has almost 1750 posts in this thread and I simply will not look through that to make a case. I will flat out refuse to do so now and I will stick by this. I will never read that ISO and I will never even feign interest in doing so.

I will give you that this is a read which has remained consistent through the game despite the ever changing landscape of it and I see how that is odd. I am always open to changing my reads on anyone and everyone and he is by no means a locktown read. I just haven't read anything that has convinced me otherwise and I don't expect to.

As for you and Saudade, a potential conftown clear and a potential towny reading him as scum, I don't know that that changes anything for me?
Much like my question to Saudade when he asked you about voting with your scumreads, I do not see why it is in any way essential to share reads with your townreads. I may be unnecessarily contentions here, but I don't scumread him despite your reads and I don't think you have presented a case yet that would convince me of it, though I do appreciate the cases put forth.

And Saudade's has been a little lacking in that respect. He is voting him but I don't know why he actually scumreads him. I honestly don't. I just know he wants RC lynched and I think it is almost #ForTheMemes at this point which is thoroughly not convincing.

I am very appreciative of your consideration on reevaluating your read on me, and I have come around on you a few times and am in no way pushing you as I had been at other points this day. Like I say tohugh, all slots are always potentials for reconsideration if given the right evidence and I have not seen that in respect to RC yet.

[Aristophanes]

It's hilarious how ego driven everyone is that no one is reactive to calling people an asshole or commentary on mental illness or whatever but you fall someone a BAD MAFIA PLAYER when they objectively are and ZOMG

Everyone loses their minds joker gif

I have called people out on all of this RC so...

[MathBlade]

It's hilarious how ego driven everyone is that no one is reactive to calling people an asshole or commentary on mental illness or whatever but you fall someone a BAD MAFIA PLAYER when they objectively are and ZOMG

Everyone loses their minds joker gif

I can't put the toxicity behind us if you define toxic as telling people that Mathblade is bad and you shouldn't listen to them as long as I'm required to be telling people that because their reads are bad.

Yes. Because good Townie non toxic behavior is about building agreement not about getting “your way”

If shos is lynched because that’s who Ico and everyone else want then that happens.

I just really think if you’re incapable of finding any place where we agree and using that as a basis then you are either scum or doing scum’s job for them. Good towns are cooperative because it’s democratic not because it’s a monarchy. Sure even if I grant the win rate which I don’t that means my cooperation and listening skills were bad which I have been actively working on as evidenced by being the NK over you a claimed PR.

If you’re going to prevent town cohesion and a town block simply because I am in it then in my opinion you have to go. This toxicity cannot last and my teammates that I asked to read the game agree.

[Aristophanes]

The difference was your relentlessness. If you called him out and left it at that, that's fine. It became a personal attack the more it got repeated and weaponized.

[RadiantCowbells]

It doesn't even matter if you have bad reads in mafia as long as you have some perspective on it and don't try to assert your individual will over everyone. There's plenty of like meme players who do ok by relying on teamwork and townblocking as opposed to trying to bludgeon everyone into agreeing with their scumreads.

The problem with Math is that no one really agrees that I'm scum or that Skitter was scum or that Ari was scum but he attempted to bludgeon people into supporting those wagons. He voted me at start of day because I "wasn't worth keeping alive" because I wouldn't vote Ari with him.

If Math had just died town would be in a much better place tbh

[MathBlade]

I also am sorry for my part and my poor word choice.

However calling out toxicity so we can come together I will not be sorry for.

We need to do it or get rid of the people who won’t cooperate.

[RadiantCowbells]

As soon as Math isn't pushing on town I can stop calling them a bad player but until that happens, well, yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

No math you pretend that you're a cooperative player but you're just as much or a dictator as I am, the difference is my perception of myself isn't at odds with reality and I have the general competence to be worth sheeping. Coalition builders don't vote people because they won't sheep them.

[MathBlade]

It doesn't even matter if you have bad reads in mafia as long as you have some perspective on it and don't try to assert your individual will over everyone. There's plenty of like meme players who do ok by relying on teamwork and townblocking as opposed to trying to bludgeon everyone into agreeing with their scumreads.

The problem with Math is that no one really agrees that I'm scum or that Skitter was scum or that Ari was scum but he attempted to bludgeon people into supporting those wagons. He voted me at start of day because I "wasn't worth keeping alive" because I wouldn't vote Ari with him.

If Math had just died town would be in a much better place tbh

You’re so close to self awareness if you’re town RC. So fucking close like replace Ari with TW.

And I am pretty sure Saude and RCE and Ico aren’t nobody RC.

You need to stop. I have been doing my damndest to townblock calling out townreads when I had them vs scum and only pushing Ari when Titus and BB and myself agreed.

Right now the three of us are in agreement RC has to go,

I am not doing unilateral math.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't pretend to be something I'm not.

You do.

[Aristophanes]

Like,tell someone to fuck off, that's gine. Telling someone they're a fucking idiot, it's a stretch but I get it especially in some situations. Repeating that someone is bad, throwing a stat in their face repeatedly, quoting a post 20 times in your post and then repeating a vote on them 50 times in the next post, something something mental illness, etc

none of that is acceptable and all of it is toxic.

I am all for less toxicity in mafia. Heck I am all for NO TOXICITY in mafia.
I know some will always occur and that's manageable. The levels here get out of control really fast though and I've almost reported a few posts, deciding not to because I mean, what good does that do really.

Like I get hat we can't just all live in a happy fun time world but I will fight against this shit whenever I can.