Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

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Post Post #5800 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:44 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

That’s a quick and dirty, but I can come up with a scum narrative fairly well. Part of it is how tomorrow plays in any world: if there is a green flip he is likely the lynch, and so I’m wondering if it’s better to have his flip now to make tomorrow have a better chance of cohesion and solving fegardless of the color he does flip.
This is going to sound mean, but if you can't recognize me as town I have 0 confidence in this town to solve the remainder of the game.
If you're lynching me you're lynching up my lynchpool and winning.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5801 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 5796, skitter30 wrote:
In post 5422, MathBlade wrote:
In post 5130, skitter30 wrote:i think he's kinda easy to read when he gets into a semi-serious phase and i kinda don't want to dismantle the shos wagon and i sr math more

but part of the math read was kinda like ~teamreading him with ico~ but if he thought ico protected him and thought ico was signaling him to that effect that probably explains some of the weirdness there
and that would be a weird thing to do as partners, i think

i'm a little scared that if i unvote shos we'll have let him get off for the team catchup thing and that rebuilding that will be devilishly hard
like i'm not sure how it just kinda collapsed ?
Specifically this one here.

Skitter says they scumread me more after the protective claim but is acting like they want Shos more. This is very odd. She didn’t go into why and shaded her own thoughts just a bit later.

It’s reaaaaally bad.
you realize that:
- i indicated that that if the protective thing was real it explained some of the weird ico/math things i'd been seeing
- so while i had scumread you at the time i acknowledged that if ico had actually protected you it would change matters significantly
- this post came before ico confirmed the protection
- i still scumread shos
- i explained why i didn't want to unvote him
- i had also around there indicated that although i had wanted to wagon you i literally didn't have the energy for it ...
- not sure why your'e shading me for that
This was after Ico confirmed protective just not on who yet. He actually confirmed it on me after where you supposedly kept reading
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #5802 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:46 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 5798, teacher wrote:A. Lack of PR!Rc death
B. Lack of vig or other balance for detective
C. Pirouetting like a top on too many reads
D. Pushing the future clear, after picking up crumbs
E. Making thread unreadable
F. Heavy ate
G. Lack of town cohesion- despite the remarkable level of mutual townreads, town hasn’t been able to work together, and I think RC is the cause of that, as he has blown up multiple wagons he built/pushed/supported (flopz,Ari,shos). Note that this is different than thread unread ability.
H. BoP on Duck and math.
i think g and h are valid
i don't think the rest is necessarily ai or scum indicative him in this context unforatunately, although a lot of it is making the game really hard to play
and g might be a function of E and F which again idk is ai for him and he can actually control/stop doing that so eh

h is signficant tho, yeah
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #5803 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 5675, RadiantCowbells wrote:

At first I was afraid I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live without duck by my side
But then I spentall night one thinking how he did me wrong
and I grew strong
and I learned how to get along

But now he's back from dead pt
I just walked to find him here with those bad reads upon his keys
I should have spent another kill, i should have strongmanned his ass dead
if i'd have known for a second he'd be back despite my bad duck no bread
<3
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Post Post #5804 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:48 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 5197, Iconeum wrote:ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing doc!Ico on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.
yes, 5197 is before 5130, indeed
if he confirmed protective before that i didn't see it
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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
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Post Post #5805 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:50 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 4333, Iconeum wrote:
In post 4305, MathBlade wrote:
In post 4304, Iconeum wrote:VOTE: skitter

Really tempted to just go after RC who is now trying to openwolf imo by going after the townblock as you say
It’s tempting but if RC is scum his end goal is to be lynched today so we need to extract as much out of the day if we decide RC is scum.

Plus there’s this whole if RC is scum either he’s trying to throw shade on a protective or create one where none exists to deep wolf with the “no kill” theory. Would be nice to sort which. Do you follow Ico?
I hear ya
In post 4708, Iconeum wrote:
In post 4702, RadiantCowbells wrote:Shade? I'm pointing out that everyone's been assuming you were a protective with an inno on Mathblade when that's not true and it was the main reason to townread both of you.
sure i'm a protective

better tell your team to come kill me
Pedit you said you were concerned about associatives

C’mon Skitter how do expect me to believe you’re town here when you’re not following your town meta? And your scumread made no chronological sense
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #5806 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Post by teacher »

In post 5800, RadiantCowbells wrote:
That’s a quick and dirty, but I can come up with a scum narrative fairly well. Part of it is how tomorrow plays in any world: if there is a green flip he is likely the lynch, and so I’m wondering if it’s better to have his flip now to make tomorrow have a better chance of cohesion and solving fegardless of the color he does flip.
This is going to sound mean, but if you can't recognize me as town I have 0 confidence in this town to solve the remainder of the game.
If you're lynching me you're lynching up my lynchpool and winning.
That’s another reason I am conflicted (and have been saying so). I agree with your lynchpool. Gun to my head, I’d say you’re +rand town. But that’s not the ultimate question. The question is what is the most likely winning path. Because - and I think you agree - green today makes you a hell of a lot more likely tomorrow. Assuming town!you, is it better to tak you today and get the cohesion and perhaps a better chance at a red tomorrow, or is it better to chance it today when I think the thread is still going to be less cohesive/good of an environment (and there is a substantial chance of red).
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Post Post #5807 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 5743, RadiantCowbells wrote:i just really need to talk to Ari/Teacher/Skitter
Yooooo

Sup? :)
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Post Post #5808 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:52 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 5437, MathBlade wrote:See if I had two vigs I would shoot Skitter and shoot you if she was red.

And I strongly suspect she is.

She is night and day different than Extra Communication.

She talked more about people’s reads and clears even if they were on her scumspect.

She just feels wrong.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p9773618

She cites posts and cases. There’s something off with her.

I have to go to bed now but Ico RCE and me I could townblock. I can’t do you and Skitter though.
oh ffs

this might be because :
- people's meta could possibly change after 2+ years
- this game is drastically different than that one
- casing in a micro that grows ~3 pages a day (or however much it does) is vastly different than in a game this size, where the game is growing at 10+ pages a day, at minimum, and some days it grows more than double than that. i literally don't wnat to wade into anyone's iso because finding anything would be impossible
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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
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Post Post #5809 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:53 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Ok Skitter let me give you a quick case for Town!Shos

1) I really think the teamreads are balance of probabilities town. I don't think Shos is outside of his town range here. This is my weakest reason but I'm going to move onto a more important one.

2)
Consider preferred order something like Tris, Xtoxm, Ari, Ico.
This is, essentially exactly what my PoE is minus her. I said repeatedly during D1 that her reads were fantastic if she's town. I also note that she had the most similar reads to me in Perfect Masquerade and we had the most -clicking- reads wise despite not really like getting along in a broader sense. Her reference to that felt extremely towny at the time and I immediately townlocked it, backed down on it, but went back on it. Like even if you don't agree with all of my reads you must agree that Plum has voted basically all the slots that are likely to be scum; who is she supposed to be scum with? Look at the wagon on her replacement today, there is literally no one opposing it except Saudade and I have a lot more to say about Saudade.

3) I really don't think that Saudade's interaction with the wagon is ever SvS. Why?
a) I really think that if they were SvS he would have at least some sort of coherent read on the counterwagon so that he could justify it after Shos flips. This is especially true given that all indication was that the wagon was going to go on Shos today, not me. He has said essentially nothing but that Shos is town for inscrutable reasons and I think that is more likely to be scum.
b) Just, like, a tonal thing on Saudade is that the way he talks about it isn't SvS. I can't do this justice. Both of these pale in comparison to C), however.
c) Look at the way that Saudade interacted before and after I started going after him instead. Before I went after him he was just shitposting and meming and he wasn't -really- trying to get me lynched. Do you believe that he makes the posts that he did and posts the youtube videos actually trying to get me lynched over Shos? That really wasn't going to happen. However, after I went after him, he got a lot more serious and started to try to make a meaningful case and everything and is actually pushing as opposed to just what Ari described as "meming".
Like I said before, I think that all the evidence in the thread is that Saudade was setting me up to take the fall for the Shos lynch but he didn't want to actually derail the wagon onto me at that point in time. Then when I was no longer pushing something useful to scum he got serious and is actually aiming to have me lynched. If he's scum with Shos, why would he be so low effort about defending him versus when it was his life was at stake when Shos is immediately going after me and he's made no effort to dispel that pairing? Or town? Whereas if he's scum and Shos is town, well, the situation changes and there's a lot of gain to be had from setting up the push on me but not actually preventing Shos from going down.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5810 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:54 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 5805, MathBlade wrote:
In post 4333, Iconeum wrote:
In post 4305, MathBlade wrote:
In post 4304, Iconeum wrote:VOTE: skitter

Really tempted to just go after RC who is now trying to openwolf imo by going after the townblock as you say
It’s tempting but if RC is scum his end goal is to be lynched today so we need to extract as much out of the day if we decide RC is scum.

Plus there’s this whole if RC is scum either he’s trying to throw shade on a protective or create one where none exists to deep wolf with the “no kill” theory. Would be nice to sort which. Do you follow Ico?
I hear ya
In post 4708, Iconeum wrote:
In post 4702, RadiantCowbells wrote:Shade? I'm pointing out that everyone's been assuming you were a protective with an inno on Mathblade when that's not true and it was the main reason to townread both of you.
sure i'm a protective

better tell your team to come kill me
Pedit you said you were concerned about associatives

C’mon Skitter how do expect me to believe you’re town here when you’re not following your town meta? And your scumread made no chronological sense
and given context at the time i'm supposed to take those literally ?

math your expectations for how you think i should play and how i actually do play are kinda ridiculous

it might behoove you to check a recent towngame (or more accurately, a towngame where i felt overwhelmed) and compare to how i'm playing here than a game from 2+ years and several playstyles ago

and your timeline is whack and you're expecting me to know that ico is a protective after posts like these ???

like you're complaining that i didn't townread you for being protected before ... it was confiremd that you were protected

do you not realize how silly that is ?
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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
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Post Post #5811 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 5807, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 5743, RadiantCowbells wrote:i just really need to talk to Ari/Teacher/Skitter
Yooooo

Sup? :)
Basically?

Your entire in thread trajectory suggests that you should be voting Tris/Saudade, your associatives aren't great, Tris refused to vote you yesterday at deadline, but you have declined to vote Saudade in situations where you really should have ended up voting him several times and in an increasingly narrow pool of people who can potentially be scum, you stand out as a buddy to him.

I can't force you to vote Saudade here but if you don't I'm basically going to assume that you're scum and go after him with everything I've got.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5812 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 5786, skitter30 wrote:i can be here till ~10:30 est but then i gotta bounce, i have to be at work an hour and half early tomorrow, fml
Hey skitty! I too am around to chat atm if you got shit for me :)

I also have a 12 hour work day tomorrow so I feel ya ahaha
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Post Post #5813 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:56 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

That him should be you. By all accounts in the thread you think that he's scum. But you've been reluctant to vote him for reasons that you've never really given.

So, yeah.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5814 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:57 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 5811, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 5807, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 5743, RadiantCowbells wrote:i just really need to talk to Ari/Teacher/Skitter
Yooooo

Sup? :)
Basically?

Your entire in thread trajectory suggests that you should be voting Tris/Saudade, your associatives aren't great, Tris refused to vote you yesterday at deadline, but you have declined to vote Saudade in situations where you really should have ended up voting him several times and in an increasingly narrow pool of people who can potentially be scum, you stand out as a buddy to him.

I can't force you to vote Saudade here but if you don't I'm basically going to assume that you're scum and go after him with everything I've got.
In post 5794, Aristophanes wrote:Catching up.

I almost want to lynch Saudade so he will shut up!
And that''s saying something in a game this size.
:wink:
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Post Post #5815 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:59 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Seriously tho I have considered him the weakest in my town pile as mentioned and am very close to shuffling him into the scum pile.

Sat what you will about going with the flow of the thread but that's where I'm at.

Also, he's fucking obnoxious to play with! Like damn man!
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Post Post #5816 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:00 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I think everyone can agree that Saudade is scum when I flip town. I'd like you to extrapolate from that.
Do you really think that he, as town, has this ISO in relation to me ever? Like ignore my alignment for a second, doesn't he _have_ to be bussing me if I'm scum?
Like you can place me as town and he's scum pushing a mislynch and you can place me as scum and he's tmi bussing me but I think it's really obvious that his push on me is disingenuous

and the fact that we can't get anyone to care about his wagon today isn't a good sign for his alignment either

Seriously though, go look at Tris again. How is that slot ever town? Plum had bad moments but she also had really good ones. Tris's iso is just... completely devoid of townfeels.
Seriously tho I have considered him the weakest in my town pile as mentioned and am very close to shuffling him into the scum pile.

Sat what you will about going with the flow of the thread but that's where I'm at.

Also, he's fucking obnoxious to play with! Like damn man!
Ok. Please vote him.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5817 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:00 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I think everyone can agree that Saudade is scum when I flip town. I'd like you to extrapolate from that.
Do you really think that he, as town, has this ISO in relation to me ever? Like ignore my alignment for a second, doesn't he _have_ to be bussing me if I'm scum?
Like you can place me as town and he's scum pushing a mislynch and you can place me as scum and he's tmi bussing me but I think it's really obvious that his push on me is disingenuous

and the fact that we can't get anyone to care about his wagon today isn't a good sign for his alignment either

Seriously though, go look at Tris again. How is that slot ever town? Plum had bad moments but she also had really good ones. Tris's iso is just... completely devoid of townfeels.
Seriously tho I have considered him the weakest in my town pile as mentioned and am very close to shuffling him into the scum pile.

Sat what you will about going with the flow of the thread but that's where I'm at.

Also, he's fucking obnoxious to play with! Like damn man!
Ok. Please vote him.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5818 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:00 pm

Post by MathBlade »

https://youtu.be/GSu7BGbyJqc

I do feel like Elle and you’re the daughter atm.

Now in that post you scumread me correct?

This was 1000 posts later.

You have been skimming.

It’s been discussed multiple times where I was pissed at RC for outing the supposed “jail keeper”.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11529271

It was the main thread of conversation.

Either you’re not reading at all which is wrong otherwise no shos vote happens or you don’t shade me because the entire context was regarding protectives.

Ico was outed as a protective.

The shade on me was likely to get Ico to out as exactly what kind of protective.

Something that takes experienced scum like you or RC
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #5819 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 5816, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think everyone can agree that Saudade is scum when I flip town. I'd like you to extrapolate from that.
Do you really think that he, as town, has this ISO in relation to me ever? Like ignore my alignment for a second, doesn't he _have_ to be bussing me if I'm scum?
Like you can place me as town and he's scum pushing a mislynch and you can place me as scum and he's tmi bussing me but I think it's really obvious that his push on me is disingenuous

and the fact that we can't get anyone to care about his wagon today isn't a good sign for his alignment either

Seriously though, go look at Tris again. How is that slot ever town? Plum had bad moments but she also had really good ones. Tris's iso is just... completely devoid of townfeels.
Seriously tho I have considered him the weakest in my town pile as mentioned and am very close to shuffling him into the scum pile.

Sat what you will about going with the flow of the thread but that's where I'm at.

Also, he's fucking obnoxious to play with! Like damn man!
Ok. Please vote him.
Titus disagrees and thinks Saud is town.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post Post #5820 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 5818, MathBlade wrote:https://youtu.be/GSu7BGbyJqc

I do feel like Elle and you’re the daughter atm.

Now in that post you scumread me correct?

This was 1000 posts later.

You have been skimming.

It’s been discussed multiple times where I was pissed at RC for outing the supposed “jail keeper”.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11529271

It was the main thread of conversation.

Either you’re not reading at all which is wrong otherwise no shos vote happens or you don’t shade me because the entire context was regarding protectives.

Ico was outed as a protective.

The shade on me was likely to get Ico to out as exactly what kind of protective.

Something that takes experienced scum like you or RC
Why do we care what kind of protective he is if once we saw the crumb all we had to do was shoot him?
Titus disagrees and thinks Saud is town.
Sorry, but this is where my vote is and this is where it's staying.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5821 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 5818, MathBlade wrote:https://youtu.be/GSu7BGbyJqc

I do feel like Elle and you’re the daughter atm.

Now in that post you scumread me correct?

This was 1000 posts later.

You have been skimming.

It’s been discussed multiple times where I was pissed at RC for outing the supposed “jail keeper”.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11529271

It was the main thread of conversation.

Either you’re not reading at all which is wrong otherwise no shos vote happens or you don’t shade me because the entire context was regarding protectives.

Ico was outed as a protective.

The shade on me was likely to get Ico to out as exactly what kind of protective.

Something that takes experienced scum like you or RC
Why do we care what kind of protective he is if once we saw the crumb all we had to do was shoot him?
Titus disagrees and thinks Saud is town.
Sorry, but this is where my vote is and this is where it's staying.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5822 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:03 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Like we know he's in the pool of rolestopper jailkeeper doctor. The solution set for all of them is the same: shoot him. We didn't even get a claim for all of our 'efforts'.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #5823 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:04 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 5821, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 5818, MathBlade wrote:https://youtu.be/GSu7BGbyJqc

I do feel like Elle and you’re the daughter atm.

Now in that post you scumread me correct?

This was 1000 posts later.

You have been skimming.

It’s been discussed multiple times where I was pissed at RC for outing the supposed “jail keeper”.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11529271

It was the main thread of conversation.

Either you’re not reading at all which is wrong otherwise no shos vote happens or you don’t shade me because the entire context was regarding protectives.

Ico was outed as a protective.

The shade on me was likely to get Ico to out as exactly what kind of protective.

Something that takes experienced scum like you or RC
Why do we care what kind of protective he is if once we saw the crumb all we had to do was shoot him?
Titus disagrees and thinks Saud is town.
Sorry, but this is where my vote is and this is where it's staying.
It matters because scum you and scum skitter would know depending upon what Ico is who should make the kill. Jailkeeper vs Doc have different people do kills.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
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Post Post #5824 (ISO) » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:04 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

It matters because scum you and scum skitter would know depending upon what Ico is who should make the kill. Jailkeeper vs Doc have different people do kills.
This is a really silly thing for us to care about.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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