TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[nomnomnom]

now that's new

[Firebringer]

thanks scumbringer

<3

[EspressoPatronum]

VOTE: DV

I reread his ISO. Not a fan of his early game + some of his more recent reads feel hedgy. Dave's ISO looks great in comparison.

@dave/DV are you able to use your LMS and inventor power on the same night?

[DeasVail]

My initial read on nom wasn't bias, the switch to a scumread was bias since she had a different opinion of what Volpe was doing than I did.

her having virtually the same mindset when approaching my slot when I'm townreading her vs scumreading her is town indicative
her starting the game by provoking me into an aggressive engagement with her is town indicative
in general, my main issue with her this game has been how absurdly aggressive she's been approaching everybody this game and in the end, I think she's far more likely to just fall apart by now as scum rather than just progressively get more annoyed, upset, and frustrated

PLUS

I don't think I was wrong that there was mostly TvT engagements early on in the game
I don't think I was wrong that the Gif+Volpe vs nom neighborhood """""""fight""""""" looked worse on GIF than anybody else, at the very least that whatever the fuck people were up nom's ass for wasn't actually as AI as people were assuming

nom's playstyle is chaos and I've even pointed out in this thread before that she gets scumread really easily because of that, I think that's ultimately the cause of the metric fuckton of scumreads she's gotten all game and that's really the beginning and end of it

I disagree that this is reason to think nom is town, generally. I would agree that if someone were scumreading nom for causing chaos, then that would not be an appropriate reason to scumread nom (I consider it NAI), but I think that your post still doesn’t account for many things I find concerning about nom, such as her faked confidence in FB being scum, and the impression that her reads are determined based on what she wants her reads to be, rather than actually reading people and deciding from there (e.g. her approach to my slot, kind of scumreading me and then when it’s convenient to do so, CONCLUDING I’m scum because my reads changed).
I disagree with the notion that nom would “fall apart” if she were scum. I don’t think that’s giving nom’s scumgame proper credit. Getting more upset etc is easily what scum would think town would do.

PEdit: Espresso, which reads do you find to be hedgy?

[EspressoPatronum]

PEdit: Espresso, which reads do you find to be hedgy?

Your reads on me, A50, and FL.

You go back and forth between scumlean and townlean on them. I find that particularly concerning because:

My town core is A50 and FL rn

[DeasVail]

Idk I’ve been pretty clear recently about thinking A50 is town?

[Flavor Leaf]

Not scum, Ank, just uninspired. I gotta fix that

[Flavor Leaf]

nom is also more readable towards endgame if you aren't all that familiar with her

So is DEB.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria’s on that VC twice

[EspressoPatronum]

Idk I’ve been pretty clear recently about thinking A50 is town?

You were back and forth on him all the way until the mid-late 3000s, at which point you listed him as the lowest of your townreads (so townlean?).

[Flavor Leaf]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

A50 What’s Ank been saying in the neighborhood?

[EspressoPatronum]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

My team and I are also confused by Ank's scum list.

Gobble says it could be scum!Ank bussing DV.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, reevaluate readslist time, I’m not even completely sure where I’m at rn, so doing this in real time.

Almost50
Espresso
Kuribo
GammaGooey

DEB
Chennisden

Panthaleon
DeasVail

Davesaz
Ankamius
Firebringer
Nomnom

Maria

Interesting. I think if there are 3 scum, they’re all in my bottom 3 tiers. I also don’t think FB/Nom are ever S/S, and I do see a world where they are T/T.

[Flavor Leaf]

the current scumlist I'm working on is:

Almost50
DeasVail
EspressoPatronum
Flavor Leaf

I don't necessary think that every other slot is town (annoyingly this game is still hard enough to parse that the things I've looked for leads from has only gotten me ONE OTHER townread I can be confident on) but those four slots are the ones standing out to me the most at this point.

So essentially you think our entire town core is scum (I’ve come around on EP, and don’t really see a point of their play at all if they’re scum) + DV.

Why are you thinking there’s 4 scum?

My team and I are also confused by Ank's scum list.

Gobble says it could be scum!Ank bussing DV.

That’s what I was thinking.

That would explain why DV wagon is a big thing, but not picking up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maria/Ank/DV? If 4 one of the commuters?

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, reevaluate readslist time, I’m not even completely sure where I’m at rn, so doing this in real time.

Almost50
Espresso
Kuribo
GammaGooey

DEB
Chennisden

Panthaleon
DeasVail

Davesaz
Ankamius
Firebringer
Nomnom

Maria

Interesting. I think if there are 3 scum, they’re all in my bottom 3 tiers. I also don’t think FB/Nom are ever S/S, and I do see a world where they are T/T.

Switch DV and Dave

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Nomm

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Ank or Nom have to have scum in them somewhere. That would explain the stagnant gamestate.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that’s T/S. I don’t think they’re S/S.

[Almost50]

I am mostly disinterested in meta data because I play this game once every several months when someone asks me to help them out.

Specifically though nothing nom had some had been useful, and I don't foresee them suddenly becoming useful once they get to live another day. They have articulated a disinterest in being helpful and I don't see their reads and activity improving.

They should accept their played scummy, leave a list of reads for the town, and then eat the rope like a helpful VT.

This is a scum claim by any measure you ant to gauge it with.

1- NOWHERE in the while post do you even question nom's alignment. And don't you tell me you made a case on her before. I am talking about this post and how it reflects what you think of her, which is "eat the rope like a helpful VT".

2- You are disregarding that DEB is even less useful ny all measures. If you truly want to lynch someone useless you should be pushing DEB over nom.

3- The whole mindset of that post is "I don't give a rat's fart about Town winning", and considering this is not just another game, but one in TM where bragging rights are at stake for whole teams; I can't even begin to imagine you received a green role PM.

In short, you are asking TOWN!nom to give up and accept being today's mislynch (and when we have yet to flip a single member of the Scum team no less!)

[panthaleon]

lmao

[Almost50]

Neat. Maybe if you demonstrate some of those skills now, I'll sixteen my position

How about you do? Tell us who is SCUM (i.e. NIT who "should accept their played scummy, leave a list of reads for the town, and then eat the rope like a helpful VT")

[Flavor Leaf]

If Panth is scum, that might rescind my Maria scum read

[Flavor Leaf]

lmao

The timing of this post is actually ridiculously convenient