TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Shadoweh]

She just said it seemed like you townlock faster in games she experienced. She wasn't thinking of particular examples, just how it felt like when she experienced y'all together.
I get the reasoning though, even if you were tvt a lot that would make it more noticable if you had to endure the revolting bonding display all the time.

[Kerset]

Who /else/ is in your PoE

Like where would you look if I flip town

In jingle

[Kerset]

We've been getting bogged down in mechanics talk and in weirdly personal arguments, unfortunately seeing all the different opinions I think its clear people don't consider the game solved. I don't think it's going to get more clear until we progress. Or, hopefully just bang out the scum right away... █▬▬ ◟(`ﮧ´ ◟ )

You all could also stop considering ofrhz as taboo.

[PenguinPower]

Prodding hitogoroshi and ofrhz.

[Chemist1422]

gamestate dead

we should probably hammer soon

[Jingle]

Fuckit.

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Shadoweh]

We've been getting bogged down in mechanics talk and in weirdly personal arguments, unfortunately seeing all the different opinions I think its clear people don't consider the game solved. I don't think it's going to get more clear until we progress. Or, hopefully just bang out the scum right away... █▬▬ ◟(`ﮧ´ ◟ )

You all could also stop considering ofrhz as taboo.

I don't think they're taboo. The evidence heavily points to them. It makes me anxious to think about because it would be a very bad thing to get wrong. But going over it with my team:

Jingle - We don't think all the claimed PR's can exist + Maria/Dunn believe Jingle is town.
Chemist1422 - General shitty info roles fit in + towny actions day 2/day 3 + if Chemist is scum I will write him an embarrassing song post-game
hitogoroshi - compulsive love/hate is useless for scum, the bp was confirmed by mastina and prob stopped scumkill
Klick - literally confirmed town gg
Kerset - Action failed N2 + didn't fail N3 lends more credit to commute claim + s c u m c o u n t e r w a g o n +

Their arrogance reminds me of town TSE in assassns

Shadoweh - my role pm says no

I wish I had something slam dunk saying it's ofr. But it seems unlikely that it's everyone else soooo....

Fuckit.

VOTE: Shadoweh

Please be better then this. You have not once stated a reason you think I'm scum, today yesterday or ever. Get your head out of your mechanics butt and actually play the game.

[ofrhz]

Busy today, will post tomorrow

[hitogoroshi]

yeah sorry I'm just sick as a dog. knew I'd be busy for time commitments but didn't know I'd also be hacking up snot while I was doin it.

In general I think the evidence does kinda point to ofr, but I'm just still not understanding Jingle's reasons to clear and I think Jingle is town and I don't know if it's because his reasoning is wrong or if it's just Nyquil brain.

but re: Shadoweh - as far as I know Jingle is basically just voting you for PoE the same reason you're suspecting ofr. I mean you've got a post saying a.) you suspect ofr not because she is scum, but because no one else makes sense and b.) jingle should have a reason to suspect you beyond just not wanting to vote everyone else. Like if it's just poe vs poe the relevant thing is how clear ofr is yeah?

also chemist where's your heart at these days, knowing that the chance of a SK is close to zero on wincon

[hitogoroshi]

Busy today, will post tomorrow

also remember per penguin rules it needs to be a substantive post, please don't get repped out

[Shadoweh]

No, its not just poe, the jjh kill points to it, and Alisae was a terrible "vig target". At least Maria stops by every few days to ask me if we've lynched ofr for claiming that yet so I can't be the only one that thinks so. There's also the fact that ofr believed in Bitmap hard enough to shoot in their poe but wasn't there when Bitmap was actually going down. I'm not sure if this part is just general inactivity though, not being around for the mena and bitmap lynches is possible because they were fast. :shrug: I don't have the motivation to stalk ofr's other games to see if she goes no-activity as scum but she definitely started the game with more activity then she's at now.

But I'm serious about what I said hito, and its actually striking that Jingle has legit never called me scummy this entire game. I think people should be made to speak for their actions, if he wants to lynch me I want him to come up with one good reason I have scum motivations here. We were scum together in Role Call recently (well recent for me ) so he should know how I think/act better then most people here.

FTR my lynch pool is ofr -> Jingle -> Kerset. Team Bitmap thought Jingle was the last scum so take his offer to kill himself seriously if you decide to substitue me for someone in there.

[Kerset]

Maria and Farkran would get along well.

[Chemist1422]

I have a mech thoughts dump to make gimme a little to eat breakfast and get ready for school

[Jingle]

Please be better then this. You have not once stated a reason you think I'm scum, today yesterday or ever. Get your head out of your mechanics butt and actually play the game.

I have, in fact, stated the opposite. However, your post, the rest of the one I’m quoting, IS my reason for voting you.

Of the people alive, Kerset is scummiest by a metric of “playing to a scum win condition.”

Chem/Kers/Klick are all strong enough town by roles and interactions that I’m just okay losing to any of them at this point if I’m wrong.

I can squint and see a world with Hito scum in it, but again, if Hito is scum with the forethought to BP mastina and who attempted to kill Ali/Kers/No One he probably deserves the win.

Ofhrz claim fits the setup and is by no means a natural scum claim. If there are 4 town protectives, a follower to confirm they exist, and no second killing role, then I’ll be truly shocked, but it’s not a hill I’m willing to die on anymore. What’s more, I don’t think I can successfully argue having Hito replace ofhrz in the lynch pool when I don’t really believe it’s either of them. I suppose I could vote ofhrz to mollify Kerset, but she’s getting lynched before endgame anyway.

Where does that leave me? You and me. Most of my townread on you is based on two things: a lack of impact in what was admittedly an egocentric clash on D1 and a vaguely unsettling concern that town has too much power. I have less faith in the former than any of my other reasons to townread someone, and there are two obvious answers to the latter. Either I’m missing a piece of the puzzle or whoever balanced the setup and I don’t see eye to eye. Both are possible.

As in that old Holmesian saying, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

[Jingle]

For the record, if I wanted to fabricate a case on shadow, I could. There are enough minor inconsistencies I could pick at. Maria’s experience with me and mastina for example is pretty much guaranteed to be misremembered because the truth is that me and mastina don’t actually play together that often. She’s in a lot of my modded/reviewed games and I’ve backup modded for her, but without double checking I think we’ve played together 5 times in the last two years. Once S/S, once S/T where I defended scum mastina because she was clearing townies, once as T/S where I had her so deep in my pocket I don’t think she saw daylight, and twice as T/T where we correctly tr each other. One of those TvT games I had ETL as a hydra partner and she’s Nancy levels of obvtown to people who know her well.

This isn’t actually scum indicative though, because it’s not a lie that really gains her anything. She probably just got that impression from my thoughts on why I gave bodyguard to mastina in alipine.

I could point out the lazy and opportunistic lynch pool of ofhrz/me/Kers but let’s be honest here: there’s a reason that’s the lazy lynch pool and I wouldn’t expect anything else from her.

Hell, I even agree with her wrt role call. That was a game where the scumteam was me/shadow/shadows teammates and it was a very different play style from this one. She feels different. I just don’t put as much weight on that as I do on all of the other tangible evidence in the thread.

[Klick]

I'm getting drowned in the theory talk >_<

I've just had the thought that in a game with this much town power, Mafia N2 Vig or something similar might not be that unreasonable? I'm questioning the ofrhz clear in general.

[Klick]

We seem pretty sold as a group on me/hito/Chem just not getting lynched this game, and I think i'm fine with that.
We literally just need to bank on one other person being town, and we're good. We don't even need to do it mechanically (and considering the contention/not-totally-clearness of it all I'm not convinced going at it mechanically is the right way at all tbh).

By play, I think Shadow/Jingle both look significantly more towny than Kerset/ofrhz.

[Chemist1422]

@Mod

Can a player who is commuting use the factional kill?

[PenguinPower]

@Mod

Can a player who is commuting use the factional kill?

If there were a Commuter, I would abide by the following:

The Commuter is a role that "leaves Town" each Night, thus making them ineligible to be targeted by Night actions. By extension, they cannot use any other Night actions they may have.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 4.07
Shadoweh (1): Jingle Not Voting (6): Kerset, ofrhz, Chemist1422, Shadoweh, Klick, hitogoroshi With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-02-03 18:30:00)

[ofrhz]

I’m fine with me / jingle / Shadoweh

Will actually read and get to this tonight but I don’t want to be replaced

[Shadoweh]

I just think your solve is giving you mental damage Jingle, especially when you're jamming your own lynch in there. My team puts a lot of stock in you being town so it bothers me that you might be okay with laying down and dying. This game isn't solved and we can't afford to just let things happen. Besides, even if we're horribly wrong it probably will help more to have two mechanical roles verified rather then seeing two VT flips in a row.

[ofrhz]

No, its not just poe, the jjh kill points to it,

Why?

and Alisae was a terrible "vig target"

flips table

[Shadoweh]

I don't know if you remember this but you had a wagon D1 because of jjh?

[hitogoroshi]

for what it's worth, Gamma also likes ofr over shadow right now (at least from ISOing ofr and just a little bit of shadow and mena - obviously I haven't really been asking for much help this game). he thinks that the existence of a strongman was enough for scum to infer protection and cook up the fakeclaim in advance, and he thinks that ofr's read on mena feels like the play when scums buddies get TR'd, going along without saying anything why and hoping it all just works out. He also thinks menas reads fit ofr-scum more than shadow-scum.

thats all you get I am so god damn man flu it's not even funny