TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

MariaR · Post Post #4675 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:04 am

VOTE: EP
Yeah, I don't mind trying here. His content just doesn't make sense coming from town with the new angles he's taken to this game as I've explained before

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4676 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:13 am

In post 4675, MariaR wrote:VOTE: EP
Yeah, I don't mind trying here. His content just doesn't make sense coming from town with the new angles he's taken to this game as I've explained before

You actually haven't fully explained your read on me. You usually just give a weak reason and then ask for why people TR me... I haven't seen a scumcase yet.

Example:

In post 4008, MariaR wrote:My EP scumread is the one that's hardest for me to get. Because it's based on his competence level. Sure, I liked our talk and I understand his reasoning now. But that first post was before it was even close to optimal. Why do people tr him?

Going back to your stance though:

His content just doesn't make sense coming from town with the new angles

What content, specifically? And what new angles?

nomnomnom · Post Post #4677 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:15 am

Can someone reiterate their case on EP? I think I would feel better with a DV wagon but I just haven't been following the case on EP at all

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4678 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:19 am

In post 4677, nomnomnom wrote:Can someone reiterate their case on EP? I think I would feel better with a DV wagon but I just haven't been following the case on EP at all

It's because there isn't one. Anyone with a hard SR on me keeps giving cagey answers at best.

MariaR · Post Post #4679 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 am

I don't case people.

I've openly said your reasons for flipping your reads are clearly opportunistic. Using neighborhood logic to base a scumread on someone is awful. You used that to flip a strong townread on me to your biggest scumread. That doesn't just happen randomly and I've seen no progression from you at all. When I tried to get in your head and see why you think the rb hood had scum I explained and got no answer in return. When we had that long talk you were 'surprised' my read didn't change on you. I fully believe that was your attempt at trying to make me townread you and when that didn't happen you changed your read. Combine that with my previous points and there you go. I wanted to see if I was wrong on you because you and fl are in the same hood so you're probably not both scum, so obviously I'm wrong. I don't know where, but this is a better outcome.

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4680 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 am

In post 4673, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4664, Almost50 wrote:
In post 4616, Ankamius wrote:EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
But you said he had a HARD TOWN READ on me earlier. Now what exactly has changed in "less than one complete cycle"?
I shat my thought process all over the discord

Having it in your discord doesn't help us at all.

Please walk us through your thought process.

MariaR · Post Post #4681 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 am

In post 4676, EspressoPatronum wrote:You actually haven't fully explained your read on me. You usually just give a weak reason and then ask for why people TR me... I haven't seen a scumcase yet.

This is also openly false.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4682 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:28 am

In post 4679, MariaR wrote:I don't case people.

I've openly said your reasons for flipping your reads are clearly opportunistic. Using neighborhood logic to base a scumread on someone is awful. You used that to flip a strong townread on me to your biggest scumread. That doesn't just happen randomly and I've seen no progression from you at all. When I tried to get in your head and see why you think the rb hood had scum I explained and got no answer in return. When we had that long talk you were 'surprised' my read didn't change on you. I fully believe that was your attempt at trying to make me townread you and when that didn't happen you changed your read. Combine that with my previous points and there you go. I wanted to see if I was wrong on you because you and fl are in the same hood so you're probably not both scum, so obviously I'm wrong. I don't know where, but this is a better outcome.

To be fair, both A50 and I are have been staying we think you’re a deepwolf, so I think it’s fair for him to scum read you.

MariaR · Post Post #4683 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:29 am

That's a buzz word. You can literally call anyone in this playerlist a 'deep wolf' without context on why that's just useless shading. If you think I'm a deep wolf case why I'm scum.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4684 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:29 am

In post 4664, Almost50 wrote:
In post 4616, Ankamius wrote:EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
But you said he had a HARD TOWN READ on me earlier. Now what exactly has changed in "less than one complete cycle"?

Said the same thing about me too. Those reads are completely flipped. Ankamius is just scum who had to shut us down.

Look at Maria right now.

The fact the wagon is going onto DV instead of one of the two of them is laughable.

panthaleon · Post Post #4685 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:30 am

What is a deep wolf

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4686 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:31 am

In post 4683, MariaR wrote:That's a buzz word. You can literally call anyone in this playerlist a 'deep wolf' without context on why that's just useless shading. If you think I'm a deep wolf case why I'm scum.

I have used context. I use buzzwords, that’s like the premise of my town game. I even make up my own buzz words.

You’re pushing scum agenda, and now you just happened to come in when partnerAnkamius was getting scum read.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4687 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:31 am

In post 4685, panthaleon wrote:What is a deep wolf

The scum that’s supposed to make it to the end game without being caught ever.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4688 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:31 am

Like even if other scum are to go down, the deepwolf is getting setup to go deep into the game and take it all.

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4689 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:32 am

In post 4679, MariaR wrote:I don't case people.

I've openly said your reasons for flipping your reads are clearly opportunistic. Using neighborhood logic to base a scumread on someone is awful. You used that to flip a strong townread on me to your biggest scumread. That doesn't just happen randomly and I've seen no progression from you at all. When I tried to get in your head and see why you think the rb hood had scum I explained and got no answer in return. When we had that long talk you were 'surprised' my read didn't change on you. I fully believe that was your attempt at trying to make me townread you and when that didn't happen you changed your read. Combine that with my previous points and there you go. I wanted to see if I was wrong on you because you and fl are in the same hood so you're probably not both scum, so obviously I'm wrong. I don't know where, but this is a better outcome.

Show me the question I avoided. As you'll see below, I've answered several (if not all) of your questions, despite you not doing so in return.

You realize my shift on your slot came after the roleblock and town investigative reveals, right? My progression on that is very clear in my ISO.

What other reads have I flipped (besides yours) and why were those flips opportunistic?

Why is using neighbourhood logic awful? You used it to townlock your whole neighbourhood, so I'm not sure why you're so against it when I use it.

Quotes below to prove my above points:

In post 4094, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 4049, kuribo wrote:
In post 4047, nomnomnom wrote:I need to learn to read.

I don't believe in coincidences, this makes Maria look pretty bad.
How dare anyone not know on day 1 that Dave would claim on day 3 to be part of an investigative group

The nerve
I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the next few pages, but I'll answer anyway just in case.

Nom is suggesting that MariaR and one of Dave/DV are scum. The scum in the invest would would tell the scum in the RB hood to block the invest hood. I think A50 brought this up earlier.

In post 4270, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 4259, MariaR wrote:I have a lot to say but I’m busy today obviously so let me just ask. Why do you think our hood has scum EP?
I don't think your power or LMS suggests an all-town hood. In addition, I think the scenario below is likely:

In post 4094, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 4049, kuribo wrote:
In post 4047, nomnomnom wrote:I need to learn to read.

I don't believe in coincidences, this makes Maria look pretty bad.
How dare anyone not know on day 1 that Dave would claim on day 3 to be part of an investigative group

The nerve
I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the next few pages, but I'll answer anyway just in case.

Nom is suggesting that MariaR and one of Dave/DV are scum. The scum in the invest would would tell the scum in the RB hood to block the invest hood. I think A50 brought this up earlier.

Can you answer my question I asked you earlier?

In post 4426, EspressoPatronum wrote:@MariaR you keep asking me questions that I've already addressed. It's starting to feel like you're not even reading my posts.
In post 4363, MariaR wrote:
In post 4270, EspressoPatronum wrote:I don't think your power or LMS suggests an all-town hood. In addition, I think the scenario below is likely:
I think our power and LMS is pretty likely an all town hood. All the powers were going to be outted at one point. Obviously you're going to leash the roleblocker. There's no reason for you to put scum in that hood considering the fact it'd be useless. However, I'm townreading both my hoodmates regardless.

About the 'below outcome' [1]who is likely to be scum in DV/Dave and [2]are you pushing for there lynch rn? [EP's edit - added numbers]
1. DV. I already said I'd vote him over Dave.
2. Not really... which you would know if you were reading my posts. Either you're skipping my posts or you already know the answer to your question. If it's the latter, you're just trying to set up a push on me.

In post 4350, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'd prefer a lynch in DV/dave over one in nom/FB for now.

In post 4252, EspressoPatronum wrote:My team will be catching up on this game over the next few days or so. I'll post a combined readslist after that.

As it stands:
I'd vote nom in the nom/FB pair.

I'd vote DEB in the DEB/Gamma pair.

I'd vote DV in the dave/DV pair.

I think 1 scum is in MariaR/kuribo/panth. I'm leaning MariaR.
I'm also still interested to hear your answer for:
In post 4251, EspressoPatronum wrote:[...]

Why didn't you ask this question to kuribo, dave, or FB when they outed their LMS?

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4690 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:34 am

In post 4681, MariaR wrote:
In post 4676, EspressoPatronum wrote:You actually haven't fully explained your read on me. You usually just give a weak reason and then ask for why people TR me... I haven't seen a scumcase yet.
This is also openly false.

Quote the posts

MariaR · Post Post #4691 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:41 am

In post 4686, Flavor Leaf wrote:
In post 4683, MariaR wrote:That's a buzz word. You can literally call anyone in this playerlist a 'deep wolf' without context on why that's just useless shading. If you think I'm a deep wolf case why I'm scum.
I have used context. I use buzzwords, that’s like the premise of my town game. I even make up my own buzz words.

You’re pushing scum agenda, and now you just happened to come in when partnerAnkamius was getting scum read.

So basically you have no real reason to call me scum and you’re just making it up as you go? Gotcha. That’s called paranoia. I’ll wait for you to do something convincing.

In post 4689, EspressoPatronum wrote:Show me the question I avoided. As you'll see below, I've answered several (if not all) of your questions, despite you not doing so in return.

You answered the First and second question I asked. But when I gave you a reason why the all roleblock hood is unlikely to be scum you just, didn’t comment and that’s something I would expect you to do if that’s your reason for flipping it.

In post 4689, EspressoPatronum wrote:Why is using neighbourhood logic awful? You used it to townlock your whole neighbourhood, so I'm not sure why you're so against it when I use it.

You’re using mechs to scumread me. While I’m using actions people do and the play itself. We’re not even doing anything close to the same thing.

In post 4689, EspressoPatronum wrote:You realize my shift on your slot came after the roleblock and town investigative reveals, right? My progression on that is very clear in my ISO.

Yet you never made any comment on that.

First of all we don’t even know what kind of invest it is, or who they gave it to. If scum are in that hood like you believe why couldn’t we just scum kill whoever was getting voted? Combine that with the fact, if I am scum with someone in that hood obviously I wouldn’t be the one to bring it up because that would leave a clear link to me and the scum in the invest one. That’s, just basic mafia. I feel like you’re just trying to find something to latch onto over thinking of the possibilities like you love to do so much.

MariaR · Post Post #4692 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:42 am

In post 4690, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 4681, MariaR wrote:
In post 4676, EspressoPatronum wrote:You actually haven't fully explained your read on me. You usually just give a weak reason and then ask for why people TR me... I haven't seen a scumcase yet.
This is also openly false.
Quote the posts

Click my iso. I've openly been calling you a scumread for most of this game I'm not gonna go cherry pick my own posts when I've said why you're scum before.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4693 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:45 am

I’m not making it. You have classic “scum caught for what they think are the wrong reasons”

I feel that’s how you play scum anyways. Town shouldn’t be able to catch you. The fact that I don’t have anything major is exactly why you’re a deepwolf in this position. You are cushioned because for you to go down, you need other people to flip before the majority of this game would consider going after you. That’s the epitome of a deep wolf.

You discredit and shade because that’s all you have to do, when in actuality, you are pretty strongly POE’d out of here.

EP is town.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4694 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:46 am

In post 4677, nomnomnom wrote:Can someone reiterate their case on EP? I think I would feel better with a DV wagon but I just haven't been following the case on EP at all

I have been, and I still don’t understand. I feel like EP’s been genuine. He gives off TownVorkuta vibes.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4695 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:46 am

In post 4689, EspressoPatronum wrote:Why is using neighbourhood logic awful? You used it to townlock your whole neighbourhood, so I'm not sure why you're so against it when I use it.

EspressoPatronum · Post Post #4696 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 am

In post 4692, MariaR wrote:
In post 4690, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In post 4681, MariaR wrote:
In post 4676, EspressoPatronum wrote:You actually haven't fully explained your read on me. You usually just give a weak reason and then ask for why people TR me... I haven't seen a scumcase yet.
This is also openly false.
Quote the posts
Click my iso. I've openly been calling you a scumread for most of this game I'm not gonna go cherry pick my own posts when I've said why you're scum before.

I said you have not fully explained your read of me. You said that is false. I asked you to quote the posts (ie. Prove that my statement is false).

Not only did you fail to quote any posts supporting your claim, you also tried to move the benchmark for what were arguing. Calling me scum is not the same as explaining your read on me.

You're asking me to reread your ISO to find something that I've already stated isn't there.

MariaR · Post Post #4697 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 am

It's not discredit and shade when it's pure fact that you're just using useless buzzwords that mean nothing because you have no reasons to scumread me. You haven't voted me. You haven't voted who you think my partner is. Honestly if you did anything that made a little bit of sense maybe I could see this logically but you're just wasting my time. 'Deep wolf' nothing.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4698 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:49 am

And there actually is reason, which i feel I’ve explained.

Maria is completely distracting off of Ankamius. The timing of her entrance is ridiculous.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #4699 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:50 am

In post 4697, MariaR wrote:It's not discredit and shade when it's pure fact that you're just using useless buzzwords that mean nothing because you have no reasons to scumread me. You haven't voted me. You haven't voted who you think my partner is. Honestly if you did anything that made a little bit of sense maybe I could see this logically but you're just wasting my time. 'Deep wolf' nothing.

I don’t really vote until i feel it’s time to vote, because my votes are always catalysts for something. You can meta that. I sit on my vote for a while.

I’m clearly stating who I think is scum, I don’t need my vote to say it for me.