Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

Almost no scum team here kills me unless I was right on Ari. I am considered the town idiot. I just kinda doubt I was right in two of my three day one reads

again it's possible you weren't the person tehy tried to kill ...

[skitter30]

or that they were prevented by being alien'd or something

there's no reason to think at this point that you were the one they tried to kill n1 and basing other scumreads on that and a bunch of other wild assumptions seems really bizarre

[MathBlade]

Almost no scum team here kills me unless I was right on Ari. I am considered the town idiot. I just kinda doubt I was right in two of my three day one reads

again it's possible you weren't the person tehy tried to kill ...

That’s literally what that said.

It says it almost never happens that I am the kill

Therefore if I was the kill then Ari would be scum.

[Aristophanes]

Ari, what do you think of the neighbor claim (I think you asked the question of what went on, but dont recall a reaction from you). Im still inclined to view it as town indicative from xtom, and agree shos>xtomx

I mean, I believe the claim well enough. In that if xtoxm is scum the neighbourizer was not used and he is covering, but if the neighbourizer was used I guess it's towny in that scum don't neighbourize other scum. No reason other than that tho.

[MathBlade]

or that they were prevented by being alien'd or something

there's no reason to think at this point that you were the one they tried to kill n1 and basing other scumreads on that and a bunch of other wild assumptions seems really bizarre

Then that’s why my vote is on RCE.

If RCE is town then one of me or RCE was shot making our d1 reads good.

I just think the most logical explanation is scum!RCE was jailkept rather than me being right day one

I gotta go

[MathBlade]

Ari, what do you think of the neighbor claim (I think you asked the question of what went on, but dont recall a reaction from you). Im still inclined to view it as town indicative from xtom, and agree shos>xtomx

I mean, I believe the claim well enough. In that if xtoxm is scum the neighbourizer was not used and he is covering, but if the neighbourizer was used I guess it's towny in that scum don't neighbourize other scum. No reason other than that tho.

Neighborizer absolutely would have been used it is multitasking.

[teacher]

Just got home can’t keep up.

Traitor imho is required or Bella+Ico has to have a scum.

One protective + 1 shot strongman = balanced
Two protectives + perma strongman = balanced

Kill failed latter not possible. So traitor required and/or one scum in Bella/Ico required

Of the two Ico is most likely considering Xtom likely lynchbait

With all the townreads of Ari I was likely not the kill forcing RCE scum so RCE + Ico

Traitor is skitter because skitter knows my scum game and this ain’t it and RC was also beginning to suspect Skitter before he died

There is just way too much in here for me to digest:
1. Im not a set-up guy, but I view JK/Alien as a semi-utility role that can hurt down by keeping town PRs. I also view docs as weak PRs given its low odds of success, weakened more here by potential to target PRs. In all, I think this town has the equivalent of 1 full-strength protective, and could see an X-shot strongman killing RC last night, and saving power N-1. Where do you think we have 2 full protectives?

2. As an aside, I also see this as a generally understrength town -- the protective analysis above plus the JOAT -- who has 3 investigative powers, but all are only semi-investigative (gray check on me, probably motion detector fail on Ico last night). So you think that this understrength town was put into a 9-4 setup rather than the usual 10-3 setup??????

3. What does Ico's alignment have to do with xtomx's? Like at all?

4. I already responded on the RC-skitter point

Pedit -- started this a while ago.

[MathBlade]

That’s over strength. Alien on RC allows follow the invest.

Why wasn’t Bella on RC?

[teacher]

Alien on RC allows follow the invest.

Nope, Alien rolestops RC.

[MathBlade]

Lol no just no Alien is one of the most powerful role there is.

Very easily self confirming.

Two protectives + JOAt is op as fuck. Would need a traitor to balance along with three PRs at minimum like fuck.

Really gotta go

[teacher]

3. What does Ico's alignment have to do with xtomx's? Like at all?

[MathBlade]

Alien on RC allows follow the invest.

Nope, Alien rolestops RC.

Oh right riiip. *facepalm*

Still OP as it self confirms

[MathBlade]

3. What does Ico's alignment have to do with xtomx's? Like at all?

Bad push today on lynch bait and not agreeing = scummy which is false.

[teacher]

Lol no just no Alien is one of the most powerful role there is.

Very easily self confirming.

Two protectives + JOAt is op as fuck. Would need a traitor to balance along with three PRs at minimum like fuck.

Really gotta go

Like I said not a set-up guy. Can I crowdsource this one? My instinct is Math's wrong, but Id like confirmation.

And it self-confirms only if it targets a town PR, ya? In other words, quite literally only in the roughly 10% chance Bella happened to target RC?

[MathBlade]

Lol no just no Alien is one of the most powerful role there is.

Very easily self confirming.

Two protectives + JOAt is op as fuck. Would need a traitor to balance along with three PRs at minimum like fuck.

Really gotta go

Like I said not a set-up guy. Can I crowdsource this one? My instinct is Math's wrong, but Id like confirmation.

And it self-confirms only if it targets a town PR, ya? In other words, quite literally only in the roughly 10% chance Bella happened to target RC?

No. Bella, if town, would also be self confirming for end game because of the scum neighborizer that flipped. Saud (if he had still been alive) can’t have neighborized any of Bella’s targets or it she would be scum and the hood would prove it. There may also be PR claims hidden. Quite literally she will be confirmed or scum due to interactions.

I had to be careful with Alien when I was scum with it in Shadowrun for that reason.

I am out.

[teacher]

Math, for whenver you are back:

In a situation where there is no kill N1, you think scum!Ico first crumbs -- and then claims -- protective? When scum!Ico knows there is a protective out there, and so it is liable to be counterclaimed? When Ico is already fairly heavily townread, and so would be sacrificing a survivor position in order to........what exactly?????????

Im sorry, just no. Like your reads have gone way too far round the bend for me to believe any serious person could possibly hold them.

VOTE: Math

[skitter30]

yes, thank you

[teacher]

Just got home can’t keep up.

Traitor imho is required or Bella+Ico has to have a scum.

One protective + 1 shot strongman = balanced
Two protectives + perma strongman = balanced

Kill failed latter not possible. So traitor required

and/or

one scum in Bella/Ico required

Of the two Ico is most likely considering Xtom likely lynchbait

With all the townreads of Ari I was likely not the kill forcing RCE scum so RCE + Ico

Traitor is skitter because skitter knows my scum game and this ain’t it and RC was also beginning to suspect Skitter before he died

There is just way too much in here for me to digest:
1. Im not a set-up guy, but I view JK/Alien as a semi-utility role that can hurt down by keeping town PRs. I also view docs as weak PRs given its low odds of success, weakened more here by potential to target PRs. In all, I think this town has the equivalent of 1 full-strength protective, and could see an X-shot strongman killing RC last night, and saving power N-1. Where do you think we have 2 full protectives?

2. As an aside, I also see this as a generally understrength town -- the protective analysis above plus the JOAT -- who has 3 investigative powers, but all are only semi-investigative (gray check on me, probably motion detector fail on Ico last night). So you think that this understrength town was put into a 9-4 setup rather than the usual 10-3 setup??????

3. What does Ico's alignment have to do with xtomx's? Like at all?

4. I already responded on the RC-skitter point

Pedit -- started this a while ago.

Let me add
5. I get the OR part, at least fypov even if I disagree. But your post requires the AND part. Your view is that town was put into a 9-4 game with only a 3-shot semi investigative and a 2-shot semi-protective. Everyone else has claimed vt. That is what saud+ico+RCE+skitter would mean, to be clear.

[MathBlade]

Bella didn’t claim 2 shot.

She claimed her two actions (assuming she is truthtelling).

Furthermore even if two shot then you’re looking at assuming Bella+Ico both town a HUGE no kill percentage N1/N2

This gets balanced with a traitor almost every time.

I may be wrong on my reads and if you lynch me for that so fucking be it but there is no way scum isn’t given some compensation for the huge N1/N2/Plus no kill shot with two protectives. One shot strongman doesn’t even begin to balance that even if Bella is two shot which doesn’t match her claim.

[MathBlade]

Joat + jailkeep/Alien vs Neighborize and traitor still makes sense because of alien confirmability. Maybe add a secret vig to give RC a possible guilty.

[MathBlade]

I say secret Vig because they would have to become essentially a VT if their shot failed.

[teacher]

Town, n1-2 alien

I was only night 1 and 2,

I'm outing this now as my role was only n1-2.

[teacher]

Would you kindly address the question of scum!icos motive for crumbing and then claiming protective first?

[teacher]

I say secret Vig because they would have to become essentially a VT if their shot failed.

But why wouldn’t they claim vig. Remember all slots have claimed, and a failed shot would be relevant info to weigh with other actions. Its like you’re ignoring the massclaim.

[Bellaphant]

It's weirding me out that math is focusing on looking for scum in the.clained PRS. None of maths posting today makes sense? It's not just me being stupid right?