Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[MathBlade]

1. Because I don’t operate like that. It would be bullshit.
2. Because I was operating and building a townblock. RCE wasn’t.
3. No. Absolutely not. You’d have to argue that RCE’s reads or my reads were good enough to merit a shot.You’re just not.
RC as much as I find him toxic can be a good player at times.
You’d have to counter that good + PR.
Sure he could have been but BBMolla woulda had my head if RC flipped town. BB was like yeah BB is bad but he’s town and bad. He was okay with the lynch for gamestate but never scumread RC which would be enough to save him. An RC lynch was never happening. It was just about getting him to be a nicer human and working together and catching scum along the way.

[MathBlade]

The presumption is the person jailed is scum in a no kill scenario.
If you want to townread then you have to provide a reasonable scenario of events. It’s not up to me to discount a wild theory. It’s up to you to prove yours.

What scum team shoots at RCE? Or Me?

[MathBlade]

An alternative traitor is Ico if not Skitter but that’s the weakest part of my theory and it’s kinda just there and coooould be Xtom but that’s so freakin rare. But teacher+RCE I think is dead to rights. And it requires a huge leap of faith and moon logic but teacher + RCE is straightforward and obvious imho

[MathBlade]

I guess by PoE one could argue I lockTown flops and Ari and Bella are lock town if you really need a hierarchy

[MathBlade]

1. Because I don’t operate like that. It would be bullshit.
2. Because I was operating and building a townblock. RCE wasn’t.
3. No. Absolutely not. You’d have to argue that RCE’s reads or my reads were good enough to merit a shot.You’re just not.
RC as much as I find him toxic can be a good player at times.
You’d have to counter that good + PR.
Sure he could have been but BBMolla woulda had my head if RC flipped town. BB was like yeah BB is bad but he’s town and bad. He was okay with the lynch for gamestate but never scumread RC which would be enough to save him. An RC lynch was never happening. It was just about getting him to be a nicer human and working together and catching scum along the way.

Was like RC is bad*

[RCEnigma]

I mumbled ok Boomer to myself for most of these posts because I don't get where you're coming from at all.

[shos]

@ico Think for a minute
Neighborizing scum has flipped.
What better boon to give scum than an ability to talk with a traitor.
My guess is that Xtom was their guess on the traitor.
The way teacher asks me gamestate while scumreading me tells me that he thinks I am the traitor.

That actually does make a lot of sense, I'll give you that. Scum have a *multitasking* neighboutizer. Why is that?
1. Because they other scums are not goons (or one is n-shot strongman)
2. Because it is intended that even if scum Tris/saudade is the one making the kill, he still will be able to neighboutizer - i.e. scum have motivation to get a hood.

This fits, actually

[shos]

Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

[teacher]

Can you towncase ari for me then?

[MathBlade]

Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

[MathBlade]

I mumbled ok Boomer to myself for most of these posts because I don't get where you're coming from at all.

If town gets me and scum doesn’t that’s #winning

[teacher]

The presumption is the person jailed is scum in a no kill scenario.
If you want to townread then you have to provide a reasonable scenario of events. It’s not up to me to discount a wild theory. It’s up to you to prove yours.

What scum team shoots at RCE? Or Me?

But this is not JUST a JK scenario.

Yesterday, you were so confident you were the NK that you were shot that you were yelling at me that you were in fact conf!town, and calling me scum for saying there were a possibility you WERE NOT saved. Now, youre calling me scum for saying there is a possibility you WERE saved. You quite literally cannot have it both ways.

Scum dont need to shoot RCE. They could shoot you.
Scum dont need to shoot you. They could shoot RCE.
And yes, Scum!RCE could shoot you, and the JK wouldnt matter.

To be clear, I am soft-defending RC -- exactly your words. Soft because Im not confident on his slot, and definitely see the world where he would be the killer. But defending because he is a townread -- indeed, just as universally townread as you at end of D1, to the point that he was a good protective target. You say he was not trying for cohesion, like you. But he certainly was not impeding it, and in fact generated it (to the extent he was a uni-townread).

[MathBlade]

The presumption is the person jailed is scum in a no kill scenario.
If you want to townread then you have to provide a reasonable scenario of events. It’s not up to me to discount a wild theory. It’s up to you to prove yours.

What scum team shoots at RCE? Or Me?

But this is not JUST a JK scenario.

Yesterday, you were so confident you were the NK that you were shot that you were yelling at me that you were in fact conf!town, and calling me scum for saying there were a possibility you WERE NOT saved. Now, youre calling me scum for saying there is a possibility you WERE saved. You quite literally cannot have it both ways.

Scum dont need to shoot RCE. They could shoot you.
Scum dont need to shoot you. They could shoot RCE.
And yes, Scum!RCE could shoot you, and the JK wouldnt matter.

To be clear, I am soft-defending RC -- exactly your words. Soft because Im not confident on his slot, and definitely see the world where he would be the killer. But defending because he is a townread -- indeed, just as universally townread as you at end of D1, to the point that he was a good protective target. You say he was not trying for cohesion, like you. But he certainly was not impeding it, and in fact generated it (to the extent he was a uni-townread).

Yes. I was confident. Based on the known pieces. Anyone would come to that conclusion.

Bella’s claim changes things drastically and fits with the townreads of Ari the game has had.

Those are indeed possibilities but mainly if you’re going to hard/soft defend RCE as town
You have to posit a working theory (not just could) that RCE or I were the kill.

Town deals in probability. Scum deals with could be.

[MathBlade]

And I am calling you scum for so much more than that Teacher. Misrep. I called you scum day two before that.

[RCEnigma]

Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

Because if you're town you're not reasoning with me the way I'm willing to consider the possibility of town!you.

[teacher]

And I am calling you scum for so much more than that Teacher. Misrep. I called you scum day two before that.

Yes, because I was drunk and wouldnt engage with you on RCE. (and during the jailkeeper thing). I didnt say that you STARTED calling me scum then. I said you called me scum for that. And you did.

[teacher]

fits with the townreads of Ari the game has had.

Can you please towncase Ari?

[MathBlade]

Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

Because if you're town you're not reasoning with me the way I'm willing to consider the possibility of town!you.

Then that’s fine. Wrong but a fine stance to have.

You still have to present a case where you are shot instead of RC or me and it has to be more probable than you scum.

[MathBlade]

fits with the townreads of Ari the game has had.

Can you please towncase Ari?

I am at work and busy. Town case later.

[RCEnigma]

Also I hard laugh at the ideas that skitter and teacher are scums. They are by far the towniest slots in the game, more than RC lol

Give me a chance if RCE flips scum. I think you will see the associatives. Teacher imho is not town.

And RCE going okay boomer rather than building a counter world makes sense.

Because if you're town you're not reasoning with me the way I'm willing to consider the possibility of town!you.

Then that’s fine. Wrong but a fine stance to have.

You still have to present a case where you are shot instead of RC or me and it has to be more probable than you scum.

Me being a target doesn't have to be more probable than you being a target because they aren't mutually exclusive. Its why I'm not explicitly scumreading you. You could just as easily have been the nk target that was saved and I happened to be jailkept the same night.

In the world you are conftown via the save it's confirmed I didn't make the kill(jailkept) AND confirmed Teacher didn't make the kill (detective) which I honestly forgot about until literally right now.

[RCEnigma]

And if I'm the save then there's 1 scum in Skitter/Ari. They're really the only people that make that kill.

[MathBlade]

That is a possible world. It’s just literally not the most probable one. Your town flip would demonstrate one of us correct on d1 and needing a bullet.

It’s just not the most probable one. If you’re town that’s what you’re up against.

Pedit you need to build a world if you’re town that makes more sense than you scum.

Because I don’t see it and I don’t think any Townie does either.

[teacher]

Town deals in probability. Scum deals with could be.

OK, we are on common ground here.

Let's dial into your favorite traitor theory, and run it against the last 600 mini-normals (Here)
There are 27 games with traitors. Only 3 (11%) are 9-4. In those 3 they were against:

• 2-shot cop, sk, 3-shot neighborizer, and JK (1862)
  
• Disloyal Informed MAcho Ninja Neighbor N-12 Babysitter, N-1 cop, Macho informed IC, informed N3+ vig, neighbor, neighbor, and neighbor (2058)
  
• Watcher, Disloyal Vig, informed, 3-shot loyal neighborizer, and JOAT (2062)

Regardless of our disagreements over the power of town here, thats WAY more power than this town has. Can we give the 9-4 bit a break?

[MathBlade]

Town deals in probability. Scum deals with could be.

OK, we are on common ground here.

Let's dial into your favorite traitor theory, and run it against the last 600 mini-normals (Here)
There are 27 games with traitors. Only 3 (11%) are 9-4. In those 3 they were against:

• 2-shot cop, sk, 3-shot neighborizer, and JK (1862)
  
• Disloyal Informed MAcho Ninja Neighbor N-12 Babysitter, N-1 cop, Macho informed IC, informed N3+ vig, neighbor, neighbor, and neighbor (2058)
  
• Watcher, Disloyal Vig, informed, 3-shot loyal neighborizer, and JOAT (2062)

Regardless of our disagreements over the power of town here, thats WAY more power than this town has. Can we give the 9-4 bit a break?

Nope. Ico could be traitor and neighborize for scum says otherwise.

[MathBlade]

Past games don’t have any relevance to this setup.

Gamblers fallacy