Micro 918: Doggos Among Us [TOWN WIN]!

[Hectic]

1°

There is one Wolf goon and two traitors

- Unlike a conventional setup, as are those belonging to the scope of newbie games, it has three instead of two members belonging to the scum side. This impacts the game in the sense that, considering that town side does not have mechanical tools (prs), it becomes much more difficult to find associative evidence between the three individuals, if not impossible.

This context benefits neutral players much more significantly than aggressive ones

.

2°

There is no scum chat

- There is no private communication exclusive to them, which prevents more elaborate pre-day strategies. However, it does not completely stop the execution of more intuitive movements of common sense

(including self-vote too)

.

3°

For day 1 only, if a member of the werewolves (werewolf Goon or 2 traitors) were to be the last person to vote to lynch a player, they would, themselves, be lynched as well

- I believe that this rule, in isolation, suggests a generalized misinterpretation, if not complemented with additional information displayed in the messages along with the roles. Such deficiency opens up the possibility that i mentioned in post 80, where a scum can claim innocent by hammering a partner and not automatically die (which contradicts the initial interpretation of the rule).

Pointing this out in post 51 was essential

to clear up that doubt, but it was also strange not to have been mentioned by someone else before. I believe that not only me, but others were also aware of this disparity in interpretations, but they chose not to comment.

This also suggests the reasoning that the scum, as a rule, should vote early, to avoid the hammering situation later.

4°

The Werewolf knows who the two traitors are, and the Traitors both know who the Wolf is, but they do not know who each other are

- Considering this, signaling scenarios don't come into play.

This would make the misunderstanding described in post 91 correct.

5°

This game is nightless

- In addition to emphasizing the morning period and prioritizing the voting stage, there are two others characteristics: the fact that it is not possible to eliminate an active voice player, whose presence would be a threat to the late game, and the incentive to not do risky gambits, considering that the game can end at any time, if performed incorrectly. It is very likely that the approach by scums, given this scenario, would be more incisive, considering that they can win if they advance a player's lynch early in the day.

Based on that, they would jump at the first viable wagon opportunity

5.

Okies, I have issues with this bc I think your conclusions are all wrong.
1. I think given the mechanics and the need for traitors to not hammer each other that associative and reading in to information gathering allows for plenty of associatives later in to the game. I think fundamentally this game functions similarly to any other, just that some of the logic behind it changes. I don't think any play style is alignment indicative.
2. No daychat is common enough and has not been proven to change play styles a heap. I don't think there is likely any way to reliably signal traitor to traitor, however wolf could be signalling. Pre-day Strats tend to never go to plan in MS style mafia bc there is far too long required to hold up and any tenseness created by trying to illogically stick to a game plan gets scum read quickly. Over a few hours or 1 day, this can be expected to maybe work, but not here.
3. I kinda see your logic here but I don't think that the logic doesn't apply to town. We also don't want to hammer bc if we're wrong we lose flat out.
4. I think I covered this in point 2.
5. Given the small player list and that vocal people tend to be both strongly town read and strongly scum read, I think there is very little to be gained from looking at in thread charisma and presence as indicative of anything other than player skill neutrally.

Given that I don't really see your logic all together I think that any conclusions while potentially correct due to the near coin flip of any slot flipping scum, I think it would be purely coincidental.

Do you think clidd is scummier for any of the faulty logic in that post?

[Doctor Drew]

I still don't understand Clidd at all, I don't even understand his case on me and what it's based on.

And Hectic, I wish I was nuanced enough to make that play.

What are your reads ?

Hectic, Norwee, Aaron, Esp, Doro........Clidd.

Town read/lean on the first three, Esp is null since nothing jumps out(though with being LA I may have missed something), Doro is null as well with a smidge of scum equity, but at this point Clidd is the only person I would vote for.

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

[Espeonage]

1°

There is one Wolf goon and two traitors

- Unlike a conventional setup, as are those belonging to the scope of newbie games, it has three instead of two members belonging to the scum side. This impacts the game in the sense that, considering that town side does not have mechanical tools (prs), it becomes much more difficult to find associative evidence between the three individuals, if not impossible.

This context benefits neutral players much more significantly than aggressive ones

.

2°

There is no scum chat

- There is no private communication exclusive to them, which prevents more elaborate pre-day strategies. However, it does not completely stop the execution of more intuitive movements of common sense

(including self-vote too)

.

3°

For day 1 only, if a member of the werewolves (werewolf Goon or 2 traitors) were to be the last person to vote to lynch a player, they would, themselves, be lynched as well

- I believe that this rule, in isolation, suggests a generalized misinterpretation, if not complemented with additional information displayed in the messages along with the roles. Such deficiency opens up the possibility that i mentioned in post 80, where a scum can claim innocent by hammering a partner and not automatically die (which contradicts the initial interpretation of the rule).

Pointing this out in post 51 was essential

to clear up that doubt, but it was also strange not to have been mentioned by someone else before. I believe that not only me, but others were also aware of this disparity in interpretations, but they chose not to comment.

This also suggests the reasoning that the scum, as a rule, should vote early, to avoid the hammering situation later.

4°

The Werewolf knows who the two traitors are, and the Traitors both know who the Wolf is, but they do not know who each other are

- Considering this, signaling scenarios don't come into play.

This would make the misunderstanding described in post 91 correct.

5°

This game is nightless

- In addition to emphasizing the morning period and prioritizing the voting stage, there are two others characteristics: the fact that it is not possible to eliminate an active voice player, whose presence would be a threat to the late game, and the incentive to not do risky gambits, considering that the game can end at any time, if performed incorrectly. It is very likely that the approach by scums, given this scenario, would be more incisive, considering that they can win if they advance a player's lynch early in the day.

Based on that, they would jump at the first viable wagon opportunity

5.

Okies, I have issues with this bc I think your conclusions are all wrong.
1. I think given the mechanics and the need for traitors to not hammer each other that associative and reading in to information gathering allows for plenty of associatives later in to the game. I think fundamentally this game functions similarly to any other, just that some of the logic behind it changes. I don't think any play style is alignment indicative.
2. No daychat is common enough and has not been proven to change play styles a heap. I don't think there is likely any way to reliably signal traitor to traitor, however wolf could be signalling. Pre-day Strats tend to never go to plan in MS style mafia bc there is far too long required to hold up and any tenseness created by trying to illogically stick to a game plan gets scum read quickly. Over a few hours or 1 day, this can be expected to maybe work, but not here.
3. I kinda see your logic here but I don't think that the logic doesn't apply to town. We also don't want to hammer bc if we're wrong we lose flat out.
4. I think I covered this in point 2.
5. Given the small player list and that vocal people tend to be both strongly town read and strongly scum read, I think there is very little to be gained from looking at in thread charisma and presence as indicative of anything other than player skill neutrally.

Given that I don't really see your logic all together I think that any conclusions while potentially correct due to the near coin flip of any slot flipping scum, I think it would be purely coincidental.

Do you think clidd is scummier for any of the faulty logic in that post?

no

[clidd]

I still don't understand Clidd at all, I don't even understand his case on me and what it's based on.

And Hectic, I wish I was nuanced enough to make that play.

What are your reads ?

Hectic, Norwee, Aaron, Esp, Doro........Clidd.

Town read/lean on the first three, Esp is null since nothing jumps out(though with being LA I may have missed something), Doro is null as well with a smidge of scum equity, but at this point Clidd is the only person I would vote for.

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

Good. So you agree with what i suggested about the reverse hammer.

[Doctor Drew]

I still don't understand Clidd at all, I don't even understand his case on me and what it's based on.

And Hectic, I wish I was nuanced enough to make that play.

What are your reads ?

Hectic, Norwee, Aaron, Esp, Doro........Clidd.

Town read/lean on the first three, Esp is null since nothing jumps out(though with being LA I may have missed something), Doro is null as well with a smidge of scum equity, but at this point Clidd is the only person I would vote for.

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

Good. So you agree with what i suggested about the reverse hammer.

Refresh my memory.

[Espeonage]

I thought Clidd was town bc effort seemed too strong for scum coming in to a game like this. I was feeling like it was an absence of fear which is usually town indicative, however the whole actions around drew seem terrible.

I put in djest bc drew seems townier since the flash wagon. I remember it being between them in my PoE.

[clidd]

1°

There is one Wolf goon and two traitors

- Unlike a conventional setup, as are those belonging to the scope of newbie games, it has three instead of two members belonging to the scum side. This impacts the game in the sense that, considering that town side does not have mechanical tools (prs), it becomes much more difficult to find associative evidence between the three individuals, if not impossible.

This context benefits neutral players much more significantly than aggressive ones

.

2°

There is no scum chat

- There is no private communication exclusive to them, which prevents more elaborate pre-day strategies. However, it does not completely stop the execution of more intuitive movements of common sense

(including self-vote too)

.

3°

For day 1 only, if a member of the werewolves (werewolf Goon or 2 traitors) were to be the last person to vote to lynch a player, they would, themselves, be lynched as well

- I believe that this rule, in isolation, suggests a generalized misinterpretation, if not complemented with additional information displayed in the messages along with the roles. Such deficiency opens up the possibility that i mentioned in post 80, where a scum can claim innocent by hammering a partner and not automatically die (which contradicts the initial interpretation of the rule).

Pointing this out in post 51 was essential

to clear up that doubt, but it was also strange not to have been mentioned by someone else before. I believe that not only me, but others were also aware of this disparity in interpretations, but they chose not to comment.

This also suggests the reasoning that the scum, as a rule, should vote early, to avoid the hammering situation later.

4°

The Werewolf knows who the two traitors are, and the Traitors both know who the Wolf is, but they do not know who each other are

- Considering this, signaling scenarios don't come into play.

This would make the misunderstanding described in post 91 correct.

5°

This game is nightless

- In addition to emphasizing the morning period and prioritizing the voting stage, there are two others characteristics: the fact that it is not possible to eliminate an active voice player, whose presence would be a threat to the late game, and the incentive to not do risky gambits, considering that the game can end at any time, if performed incorrectly. It is very likely that the approach by scums, given this scenario, would be more incisive, considering that they can win if they advance a player's lynch early in the day.

Based on that, they would jump at the first viable wagon opportunity

5.

Okies, I have issues with this bc I think your conclusions are all wrong.
1. I think given the mechanics and the need for traitors to not hammer each other that associative and reading in to information gathering allows for plenty of associatives later in to the game. I think fundamentally this game functions similarly to any other, just that some of the logic behind it changes. I don't think any play style is alignment indicative.
2. No daychat is common enough and has not been proven to change play styles a heap. I don't think there is likely any way to reliably signal traitor to traitor, however wolf could be signalling. Pre-day Strats tend to never go to plan in MS style mafia bc there is far too long required to hold up and any tenseness created by trying to illogically stick to a game plan gets scum read quickly. Over a few hours or 1 day, this can be expected to maybe work, but not here.
3. I kinda see your logic here but I don't think that the logic doesn't apply to town. We also don't want to hammer bc if we're wrong we lose flat out.
4. I think I covered this in point 2.
5. Given the small player list and that vocal people tend to be both strongly town read and strongly scum read, I think there is very little to be gained from looking at in thread charisma and presence as indicative of anything other than player skill neutrally.

Given that I don't really see your logic all together I think that any conclusions while potentially correct due to the near coin flip of any slot flipping scum, I think it would be purely coincidental.

Hum, no. I keep thinking the same.

Is this you saying you disagree with ALL of his points in that post?

Probably not, but imagine that lul. Anyway, I'm V/LA mostly for the rest of today.

When you come back, i want to see your read on Espeonage.

Decent

, so far.

Yes, it is.

[clidd]

I still don't understand Clidd at all, I don't even understand his case on me and what it's based on.

And Hectic, I wish I was nuanced enough to make that play.

What are your reads ?

Hectic, Norwee, Aaron, Esp, Doro........Clidd.

Town read/lean on the first three, Esp is null since nothing jumps out(though with being LA I may have missed something), Doro is null as well with a smidge of scum equity, but at this point Clidd is the only person I would vote for.

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

Good. So you agree with what i suggested about the reverse hammer.

Refresh my memory.

Post 193.

[clidd]

Can you speed things up and hand me over to your partner ?

[Doctor Drew]

I still don't understand Clidd at all, I don't even understand his case on me and what it's based on.

And Hectic, I wish I was nuanced enough to make that play.

What are your reads ?

Hectic, Norwee, Aaron, Esp, Doro........Clidd.

Town read/lean on the first three, Esp is null since nothing jumps out(though with being LA I may have missed something), Doro is null as well with a smidge of scum equity, but at this point Clidd is the only person I would vote for.

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

Good. So you agree with what i suggested about the reverse hammer.

Refresh my memory.

Post 193.

I have read this, and again. Still not sure what you are trying to accomplish.

You want me to hammer you?

[Hectic]

Pre Edit: Stop sniping me Hectic! Haha

[clidd]

You hammer me and die because of the first day rule. Before dying, i indicate two names that will decide the next lynch day 2.

[clidd]

And that's it. No secret.

[Hectic]

Who would those two names be, Clidd?

[Hectic]

I thought Clidd was town bc effort seemed too strong for scum coming in to a game like this. I was feeling like it was an absence of fear which is usually town indicative, however the whole actions around drew seem terrible.

I put in djest bc drew seems townier since the flash wagon. I remember it being between them in my PoE.

What'd you think of Doro's obsession with finding wolves slipping/signalling to each other?

[Doctor Drew]

You hammer me and die because of the first day rule. Before dying, i indicate two names that will decide the next lynch day 2.

I will gladly.

[clidd]

Who would those two names be, Clidd?

One is NorwegianboyEE, and the other i will say if you agree with my prop.

[clidd]

You hammer me and die because of the first day rule. Before dying, i indicate two names that will decide the next lynch day 2.

I will gladly.

Let's do then.

[clidd]

Can i self vote ? (according to the rules)

[clidd]

Ha! I got a page top finally!

Votecount 1.4

dsjstr

- (0)

Hectic

- (0)

Doctor Drew

- dsjstr (L-3)

NorwieganboyEE

- Espeonage (L-3)

AaronFrost

- (0)

Espeonage

- (0)

Clidd

- Hectic, Doctor Drew (L-2)

Not Voting: NorwieganboyEE, AaronFrost, Clidd - (3)

With 7 Players alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is (expired on 2020-02-08 13:00:00)

*Espeonage V/LA until February 2nd
*Doctor Drew is on V/LA until the end of the weekend

Im l-2 now.

[Hectic]

I like Clidd’s case too.
His general observations on the setup seem genuine and beneficial towards town.
As for Drew i know he likes to lurk as scum. An example of this behaviour is Micro 902 cultist recruiter mafia, an game where he was cult leader, showcasing it quite nicely how he does indeed have the ability to excuse himself from participation by citing real life distractions. Take a look at posts 522, 597, 602, 826, 888 and 894 in particular.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81377

Also my name is spelled wrong in the OP, something Clidd has started to emulate. It is NorwegianboyEE, not NorwiganboyEE.

Norwee's been scummy, but putting the effort in here was pretty towny. What prompted you to go scout this out, Norwee?

[Hectic]

VOTE: Clidd

Ha, no lolhammers pls

[Hectic]

UNVOTE: Clidd That one

[Hectic]

Can i self vote ? (according to the rules)

Technically, yes, but I still don't understand why you're so confident on Drew being scum.

[AaronFrost]

By newbie I mean newbie to MS's way of playing. Which I think is reiterated by the hot garbage logic he has displayed. Like could be proven wrong tho.

But I feel pretty happy with the level of effort I have seen

.

Money atm is on Norway/clidd/djester

Are you townreading clidd because of the effort he's been putting in or are you happy with it because it helps you read him easier? Just trying to get a better understanding on how you read him.