Newbie 1982 | Cellular Automata | Over

[Luca Blight]

I didn't like bugs' tone + volxen has been an inactive slot who I wanted to get more of a read on especially.
And TSE has just been consistently anti-town, I just can't deal with that. It's annoying and doesn't help us.
TSE's tone reads towny

but just I cant ignore how much their actions scream scum

.

Can you elaborate on this?

[volxen]

He isn't a fan of TSE's response, but decides it isn't worth pursuing because the wagon is stagnant? Since when has a stagnant wagon been a reason not to pursue a scumread?

A stagnant wagon can mean one of two things: 1. It's a scum-driven wagon that's only gaining traction/being pushed by scum, or 2. We're hitting Scum and their partner is pushing a counter-wagon.

I don't scumread Chaz, I actually nullread them before. Which is why my vote stayed on him for pressure.

'Oh, maybe Luca/Bugs are scum driving this wagon, let me vote Chaz instead'

That isn't my point.

I did it for a few reasons. I wanted to see if Chaz would become the counter wagon to TSE. And because I believe Chaz's interactions with Chuck weren't sufficient for a TR. He was null at the time. I think he's TL now.

And Chaz didn't really become the counter-wagon since no one was really pushing it.

It's misleading to call it a "stagnant" wagon that wasn't going anywhere though. TSE was at L-2 before you unvoted, and other people who weren't voting for TSE were scumreading/scumleaning him at the time (e.g. Chaz), but no one wanted to put TSE up to L-1 that early on in the game. That's indicative of an unwillingness to put him within quickhammer range, not of a stalling wagon that was losing traction. It still doesn't make sense to me why you wanted to reduce the pressure on your strongest scumread at the time (TSE) and risk killing the momentum of that wagon in favor of seeing if your nullread (Chaz) would end up being a counter-wagon.

You're also saying here that TSE's "stagnant" wagon means one of two things, but you don't seem to believe that either of those two things are actually true given that 1) you aren’t scumreading either of Luca or Bugs (the other people who were with you on TSE's original wagon) and 2) you said that you voted for Chaz to see if he would end up being a counter wagon to TSE, and Chaz was voted by a few other people (Chuck/Alora and Bugs) but you don't scumread any of the people who were voting for Chaz, and you even said yourself that Chaz’s wagon wasn’t really a direct counter-wagon to TSE’s wagon. And regarding the second point you’ve made no mention of a potential TSE partner pushing any counter-wagon period. I don’t follow your thought process at all here with respect to how you came to the conclusion that TSE’s wagon was stagnant/stalling, or why you are saying that a stagnant wagon means one of two things but yet you don’t believe that either of those two things are true.

Any why were you interested in seeing if Chaz specifically would crop up as a counter-wagon to TSE's wagon?

[JacksonVirgo]

Dang I thought I was gonna be able to play a proper game with TSE but they're just gonna die r.i.p
Maybe next game TSE

If it gets to L-1 I can hammer it because I see why people are scum-reading them and their flip will teach us a lot but like they're gonna flip town 90% of the time.

So why not push another lynch if you're so sure they're flipping Town?

Because everyone is stupid and is pushing TSE

[JacksonVirgo]

I may have to swap George for Dk, I'll give my reasonings later

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.13

This is a Turning Machine implemented in Conway's Game of Life. You can click it to make it bigger.

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

TrueSoulEnergy

(2): chazary, bugspray

JacksonVirgo

(1): GeorgeBailey

GeorgeBailey

(1): volxen

bugspray

(1): JacksonVirgo

Not Voting

(4): DkKoba, Luca Blight, TrueSoulEnergy, Aloratom

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-02-07 18:00:00).

Mod notes:

Aloratom replaced Chuck Shurley, DkKoba replaced TheLordOfKittens[/area]

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: DkKoba
I thought my vote was on Bug?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Koba

[Luca Blight]

I'm also pinged by how Volxen comes in and writes a wall post about two George posts from five pages ago, but doesn't comment on anything relevant going on right now.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Koba

I assume you also see what I see, that's neat

[Luca Blight]

TSE, if you want to survive this day you'd better vote someone at the very least.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Koba

I assume you also see what I see, that's neat

I don't like their recent change of stance on TSE, and when I questioned him why TSE's actions scream scum in our real time conversation they suddenly disappeared, as if they don't know the answer.

[Luca Blight]

I didn't like bugs' tone + volxen has been an inactive slot who I wanted to get more of a read on especially.
And TSE has just been consistently anti-town, I just can't deal with that. It's annoying and doesn't help us.
TSE's tone reads towny but just I cant ignore how much their actions scream scum.

I didn't like bugs' tone + volxen has been an inactive slot who I wanted to get more of a read on especially.
And TSE has just been consistently anti-town, I just can't deal with that. It's annoying and doesn't help us.
TSE's tone reads towny

but just I cant ignore how much their actions scream scum

.

Can you elaborate on this?

These posts are just two minutes apart.

It could be an unfortunate coincidence that Koba suddenly had to go AFK in between their post and mine, but I would really have appreciated a timely answer to that question.

[JacksonVirgo]

I skimmed the game up until this point, and I have 2 points I want to make:
a) TSE comes off as town who made a really shit play
b) While this is a really hot take as an entrance on d1, volxen and bugspray is my top scumteam read right now

What made you say point a, and give your reasonings on why you scum-read volxen and bugspray even if you don't at the moment.

On closer reread via ISO, I'm liking my read even more. I will try to quote and explain everything, although most of it has to do with a) lack of interaction with eachother b)volxen gives me "mafia savior" vibes where they are pushing off a lynch on someone who they believe is town, although after the ISO I see they only have 8 posts or so.

Reading the ISO made you think that TSE is Town and Volxen/Bugspray are mafia, can you give more reason outside of them pushing against a town lynch, Town also does that -_- Also I see nothing on bugspray.

No comment on my entrance alora?

Why do you care about their opinion on your entrance, unless you purposefully wrote it in a way in which you expect to be town-read and when it was ignored you had to prod someone.

this is a bit frustrating bc i dont want to waste d1 on TSE bc I genuinely read them as of right now as dumb town, their play makes little sense from a scum pov. although theyve just given nooby vibes in general. TSE I want you to reexplain why you have done what you have done so far. Give us some insight into your intentions.

You say it makes little sense from a scum pov

this is a bit frustrating bc i dont want to waste d1 on TSE bc I genuinely read them as of right now as dumb town, their play makes little sense from a scum pov. although theyve just given nooby vibes in general. TSE I want you to reexplain why you have done what you have done so far. Give us some insight into your intentions.

TSE is a SE btw, not a noob.

From my experience, not everyone learns the game at the same pace in mafia. Obviously i dont mean nooby as in brand new, but nooby as in, they dont undesrstand why thats a really bad play

alright based on TSE's last couple pages I think I'm set on hammering them, but I'd like more interaction before I do so. (im sorry im like this but i like drawing stuff out to get as much town discussion possible and getting good reads) also TSE is not really engaging well + they claimed VT so really this is the optimal lynch right now as to be able to hide PRs.
I was hoping they would actually give me more info should they have believed I hard townread them, but it seems they stubbornly clung to their playstyle. (although that could be read more as town.)

I think the discussion for the rest of d1 should be "who is TSE's partner should they flip scum"

Why does it make little sense from a scum pov? And why did you retract that straight away? Also no we're not discussing that for the rest of the day because that's -ev but of course scum!you would try to push that.

Alright, this is going to sound weird, but imma have to bring up my meta as a player on epicmafia(kinda fillery post incoming, but it will explain why I do this):

on epicmafia, sometimes someone who is obvious scum will try their best to delay things and fight back and out of anger just not participate and help the gamesolve happen
so a tactic I like to use to counter this is to lead them to believe that I townread them, this makes them think that I trust them and they can be more relaxed and open and save themselves through me.
what I am really doing is either a) getting them to self for hammer(thats sometimes how votes go on epicmafia) OR b) get them to out crucial tells that can help gamesolve(since they may start to bus in an obvious way etc)
what happened here was that TSE is hardfocused in not being cooperative that they just straight seem to have given up because of what I perceive to be a tactical scum blunder. I DO see why their mason claim may make sense from a scum pov(its just not very effective).
I hope that clears up a little on why I said what I said.
My early game reads are often things I do to misdirect scum, or get my actual reads to help gamesolve. Its not the most conventional style but it helps create discussion and gamesolve nearly always.

Stop

[Luca Blight]

I definitely want to see a lot more of Volxen before this day is out.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I didn't like bugs' tone + volxen has been an inactive slot who I wanted to get more of a read on especially.
And TSE has just been consistently anti-town, I just can't deal with that. It's annoying and doesn't help us.
TSE's tone reads towny but just I cant ignore how much their actions scream scum.

Anti-Town?
What would you like me to do?
I don’t think I’ve been playing Anti-Town, I’ve been playing up to my wincon.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

It’s called solven.
Although I need to do more of that and less defending myself when I’m like close to being Misslynched.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

TSE, if you want to survive this day you'd better vote someone at the very least.

TBH I’m not sure why Koba didn’t just vote Bugs when I had them Voted if they viewed them as a scum team with volxen.

VOTE: Koba

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I definitely want to see a lot more of Volxen before this day is out.

Same.
I can’t get a clear read on him and I hate reading Walls.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

TBH I usually just ignore walls because I’m lazy.
By ignore I mean partly read it but don’t actually read everything on the wall.

[Luca Blight]

Posting everything in walls can certainly be a scumtell; it allows players to hide easier.

The fact Volxen is not only posting in walls but also ignoring current events in favour of things that happened 5 pages ago pings me harder. It’s a way of looking productive without needing to take a stance on anything relevant.

[bugspray]

Luca can you give a readlist? I'm getting a wolfy vibe from you and your somrgasboard of scumtells

[bugspray]

The wolfy vibe is just the last few pages tbh

[Aloratom]

I like that Luca caught DkKoba's flip on reading TSE from Town to Scum and then noted that DkKoba said we should hammer TSE and spend the rest of the day talking about who TSE's partner is. DkKoba needs to explain further. If we hammer TSE, that's EOD. The Mod will likely close it out pretty quickly -- we don't get twilight until the clock runs out to chat -- maybe DkKoba isn't aware of this. Anyway, that doesn't explain DkKoba's whiplash view on TSE.

And I don't like how JacksonVirgo and TSE, again seemingly tied together, almost immediately jumped on the DkKoba wagon. Seems like an easy vote. At least JV put a little bit of thought into it with 462, but I'm still not seeing much analysis from TSE.

I hope volxen and chazary catch up soon. A lot has happened since GeorgeBailey and bugspray have posted also.

[Luca Blight]

Luca can you give a readlist? I'm getting a wolfy vibe from you and your somrgasboard of scumtells

I think you’re exaggerating my scumtell usage, but I try to explain why certain things are scummy because we’re in a newbie and it’s useful for newer players to pick up on these things. I’ve seen many scum players hide behind walls in a similar manner. Some players have that style as both alignments, but Volxen’s pings me specifically for the reasons I mentioned.

Right now I scumread everyone to varying degrees except you, the Chuck slot, Chaz and George.

[bugspray]

Can you give a wallpost with a bit about why you read each slot like you do?