White Flag - TM2020

[Auro]

Why are you so dependent on people who arent in this game? Are you hoping to be saved by one of our teammates?

No, but because I can conclude that you're scum if Reundo agrees with your reasoning. Think of it as a rational BoP on Reundo.

[Formerfish]

hey

just so ya'll know I think Cheeky is trying to replicate my reaction to my wagon

I'm likely lynching her today

Wait a second, isnt this the same thing that she got mad at me for when I was about to get lynched?

So its bad form for me to do it, but "I got away with it" cause I wasn't lynched. Then when she starts getting a little bit of heat she self-votes.

Naw.

VOTE: Cheeky

Sorry wifey, but i need a fair partner.

[Dannflor]

HURT: cheekyteeky

[Auro]

What are you talking about? Cheeky made it very clear she was coming for my head today after what happened yesterday. Why wouldnt i have taken out at least 1 person calling for my head on a pike?

Cool. So if Cheeky died at night, that would make it easy to call you scum and go for your lynch, yeah? So if I was scum, I could kill Cheeky, and then claim that you're scum who killed someone calling for your head on a pike, and this would be a legitimate push, yeah?

>Scum!AuroDann kills Cheeky and pushes FF lynch

That's the only assertion I made in the post.
That doesn't mean I *am* going for your head. It's a hypothetical about where I'm scum.

I think I'll spell this out in easier words. My implied argument was:

1. Consider scum are Auro+Dann.
2. Consider the hypothetical where Auro+Dann NK Cheeky.
3. Auro+Dann would be pushing FF after NK'ing Cheeky.
4. (3) is an easy win path.
5. Cephrir locktowned Dann and townread Auro.
6. NK'ing Cephrir and hoping to wifom is a poor strategy.
7. Given the dominant strat in (3), this is good evidence in favor of ruling out Auro+Dann.

I don't care if you disagree with the argument. No part of the argument implies that I wanted your lynch today. This is because I'm firstly not scum, and Cheeky wasn't the NK.

"In a hypothetical world X where I am scum, doing Y makes it easy to simply go for an FF lynch"

This is not the same as "I want to simply lynch FF now".

Do you get the difference?

[Auro]

Please unvote. Use hurt tags like Dann if you want.

[Formerfish]

eh maybe that's too hasty

but literally ALL OF THE NKs scumread gobble/FF and that's significant

What the fuck are you talking about.

Kitty tred me.

Dunn tred me.

Ceph tred me.

Literally what you said was 100% incorrect. Thanks for playing. I feel like im watching a tennis match with how quickly people are scum claiming in their posts.

pedit- VOTE: Unvote

I assumed Cheeky would have unvoted...

[Auro]

What do your reads look like Cephrir?

They havent changed in a while because I am not invested.

Town

Cheeky
Dann
Auro
BB
Dong???
FF
Turkey
Hopkirk

Untown

I'm doing a really bad job of caring about flips and recent info and, well, the game

I have quoted Cephrir's latest post where you were mentioned. Hopkirk flipped town, which means you were the second scummiest candidate after Gob.

I have offered proof that Ceph scumread you.

Either agree with this, or prove otherwise.

[Formerfish]

Cheeky, I'm heavily interested in your teammates' individual reads.
Additionally, please paraphrase your team PT discussions as detailed as possible.

Kiss my ass.

Na.

I see little reason for you to refuse this. If town, bad.

See Fuck This.

HURT: Auro

[Auro]

Tell me why that's a bad request, and especially why it's a scummy one.

[Formerfish]

So if I was scum, I could kill Cheeky, and then claim that you're scum who killed someone calling for your head on a pike, and this would be a legitimate push, yeah?

So its ok for you as scum to set me up by killing someone scum reading me, but me saying that the people who died were tring me and could defend me if alive still is baseless wifom?

Im giving a read of the gamestate from mpov, and you are giving one from yours. Yours doesnt make sense.

[Auro]

Why are you so dependent on people who arent in this game? Are you hoping to be saved by one of our teammates?

No, but because I can conclude that you're scum if Reundo agrees with your reasoning. Think of it as a rational BoP on Reundo.

Reundo doesn't need to read the game. Simply tell him your case and ask him to evaluate it. I'm sure he'd be fine giving a few minutes.

[Formerfish]

Why are you so dependent on people who arent in this game? Are you hoping to be saved by one of our teammates?

No, but because I can conclude that you're scum if Reundo agrees with your reasoning. Think of it as a rational BoP on Reundo.

Thats assuming that my team is invested as yours apparently is in this game. I guess I dont need as much of a crutch.

[Formerfish]

Tell me why that's a bad request, and especially why it's a scummy one.

Because when you dont get an answer you like in here you make us appeal to our teammates. Its like when you get a no from mom and you go to dad knowing he is going to say yes.

We are the ones playing this game. We are the ones who have read every post and know all the nuances of the slots relationships.

You're asking us to reach out to a disinterested to semi-interested partner who hasnt read everything and is going to have a lower starting base of knowledge in hopes that they tr you and can call us off you.

I just think that you and Dann are playing an obviously scum motivated agenda right now.

[Auro]

So its ok for you as scum to set me up by killing someone scum reading me, but me saying that the people who died were tring me and could defend me if alive still is baseless wifom?

It's not "ok", it's a valid strategy for me to have pursued, by your own admission (that a cheeky NK paints a target on your back).

Saying that people who died TR'd you is firstly incorrect, and the argument loses strength when the reasons they died are pretty obvious: that they were obvious town, not for reads. Dunn was going for Esp+Hop and both were town.

Also, this is a false equivalence. You were saying I'm scum for wanting your lynch today and all game. I've disproved the former; and you lack evidence for the latter.

You're resorting to whataboutery when I present evidence against your arguments. Treat them separately; agree that your case on me was incorrect, and we can then look into my pushes on your posts.

[Auro]

Thats assuming that my team is invested as yours apparently is in this game. I guess I dont need as much of a crutch

Don't need Reundo to be invested. Just show him your recent posts/case, and ask him to evaluate it on its own merit. Surely he can have some judgment about how strong the case is without having to have read the entire game.

[Formerfish]

I'm sure he'd be fine giving a few minutes.

Except im not going to ask him because weve done this dance once already and I dont wanna waste a song on my dance card with someone who stepped on my toes before.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Auro

Yeah, im just going to do this now.

[Auro]

Because when you dont get an answer you like in here you make us appeal to our teammates. Its like when you get a no from mom and you go to dad knowing he is going to say yes.

We are the ones playing this game. We are the ones who have read every post and know all the nuances of the slots relationships.

You're asking us to reach out to a disinterested to semi-interested partner who hasnt read everything and is going to have a lower starting base of knowledge in hopes that they tr you and can call us off you.

No, I don't care about their reads on me. I'm asking so *I* can have a more confident read on you.

Teammates can still have opinions without being terribly invested in the game.

And those opinions are readable, since they share your alignment.

[Auro]

Except im not going to ask him because weve done this dance once already and I dont wanna waste a song on my dance card with someone who stepped on my toes before.

This makes zero sense; he's literally your teammate, and the ask is very simple and very little time consuming.

[Formerfish]

Fine. I asked. If he answers I will let you know.

[Formerfish]

Except im not going to ask him because weve done this dance once already and I dont wanna waste a song on my dance card with someone who stepped on my toes before.

This makes zero sense; he's literally your teammate, and the ask is very simple and very little time consuming.

It does make sense when you go to mom and ask permission and she says no because she knows all the specifics and decides no. Most kids will go to dad and will hope that mom hasnt talked to him yet and doesnt have all the info he would need to make a good decision. hell, he barely looked up over his paper, or away from the ball game to mumble yes, and then you go and jump off a bridge.

[Auro]

Please do. I don't know if bad reasoning makes you scum, but I can apply that BoP to Reundo.

[Formerfish]

I also kinda think this is pointless because you already gave me the roadmap to make you feel better about me.

I go to my team pt and ask the question and come back and tell you that Reundo thinks that im a moron and my reasoning is shit, but its my game so do me.

What does that do for your read on me? This is the 2 General Problem in action.

[Auro]

Or, mom could be irrational as both scum and town, whereas I know dad's only going to be irrational as scum; so instead of trying to read mom and dad on mom's words, I'll read them by dad's words.

[Formerfish]

Aww... are you calling me irrational?