Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Nachomamma8]

saying "this is my first time as mafia" while in other ongoing games is really skeevy for the record

i wanna walk through the logic to make sure that's what's happened...

this is a very pure reaction to a gamechanging event

[Nachomamma8]

Suji
Sherlock
Hectic
Nachomamma
Me

I'd bet the whole game on this entire group being town. And god surely hates someone in the scumteam if the IC isn't among these. I simply do not need any scumreads this game and don't care if you don't like it. Let's just end this and go next.

ok yes i see why chara is townreading psyche to the degree that they are
i don't really understand amrun's mindset in this exchange

[Nachomamma8]

After I realized I made the meta mistake, Nacho was a blindfolded dart throw based off of what he was advocating mechanically. That Chemist read (Probably town because why would Chemist defend the two lurkers) was so singularly terrible that it shot him way up. Definition of half-assed, and I strongly, STRONGLY doubt that it matches up to what he's seen from town/scum respectively over the years.

i probably had a shitty chemist read, yes.
but you're being a drama king and had a shitty nacho read, so... nyeh?

[Psyche]

i was so young and naive back then

and yet all those reads are accurate

[Nachomamma8]

currently at the point where the scumteam is exactly {Chemist, Amrun} and now that the rest of my reread will either be finding ammo for those two reads or finding places to make snarky comments while waiting for something else to jump out at me, but.......

[Nachomamma8]

HURT: Chemist1422

HEAL: Hectic

[Nachomamma8]

As town, I'm good at being active. I'm bad at motivating others to do the same. I'm very bad at reads, and in particular I have a bad habit of sticking to a single thing. This works really well when it's correct, really terribly when it doesn't. To make this worse, recognizing it and trying to correct for it ingame seems a 50/50 for bad results, making me feel stupid when I do. I can be very irritable if I think someone is being condescending. I was always the youngest in every group growing up, and it's an artifact that has stuck even as I've grown older.

you're currently sticking to a single thing.
that thing is me.

you were right about why my chemist read was bad. chemist's perspective of "scum is probably pushing LHF Pine!" is super bullshit when there wasn't anyone actively pushing pine. his asriel townread as his strongest townread because "if he was scum he would be nervous, but like, afraid of being nervous and i don't really think he's THAT town but he's not like scum, you know?" and using that piece to push me because i thought those two had a chance of being scum is fucked. it's incredibly suspicious now that both of those lurkers have been replaced and now are actually super fucking town - you were correct that he was making a level 2 play of pushing people falling for mislynch bait.

so now it's time to kill him.
then we spare out of {Hectic, Psyche, Farkan, Chara} and last scum (prolly Amrun) kills themselves.

[Bingle]

i know you've given reads on Farkran and Psyche. why is Psyche town?

?

The only time I elaborated on psyche was to say why I think he’s scummier than Amrun, why Amrun/Psyche isn’t S/S and that psyche had felt less scummy recently. None of that is a townread.

Psyche feels better because I get the sense he’s trying to figure out what is happening instead of manipulate people into fights. It doesn’t make him town, but does make his perspective considerably more interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

HURT: unvote
i may have been wrong about Chara...
but i am a little suspicious...
i'm still hiding from her after we started playing hide and seek and she still hasn't found me...
maybe scum-indicative...?

let's have a small rant on how hectic pushing chara here is town as fuck - i know that people are freaking out because two scum games of meta makes me feel like i have an understanding of hectic range but being willing to push hard against someone who is a strong advocate for you being town and then having the ability to fake a genuine progression where you press and back off and hem and haw a bit and thinking of making those types of moves when you're in an amazing position (and thus really shouldn't be rocking the boat) is some advanced scum play. i don't think hectic is capable of it; i don't think the hectic in chk's DnD mafia feels so flat if they have a genuine enjoyment of being scum and i don't think that hectic's grown from that first scum game which wasn't that long ago that dramatically. there's also shit like the small flash of paranoia surrounding me then settling with "where he's experienced so maybe he can just

tell

", that's something that never ever comes from new scum who doesn't feel incredibly comfortable playing scum in the first place.

[Nachomamma8]

oh i totally forgot bingle was in the game.
bingle could also be scum!

[Nachomamma8]

in fact chemist/bingle is way more palatable than amrun/chemist! i just thought that i'd run out of people and felt better about the pool i mentioned earlier + replica!

[Nachomamma8]

i know you've given reads on Farkran and Psyche. why is Psyche town?

?

The only time I elaborated on psyche was to say why I think he’s scummier than Amrun, why Amrun/Psyche isn’t S/S and that psyche had felt less scummy recently. None of that is a townread.

Psyche feels better because I get the sense he’s trying to figure out what is happening instead of manipulate people into fights. It doesn’t make him town, but does make his perspective considerably more interesting.

hey can you sheep me on either chemist or hectic?
my cases are conveniently on this very page!

[Chara]

at this point i'm sort of in awe of myself at how badly i've misread your posts, so i'm just going to sit here and focus on... focusing. you were talking to Farkran there, and even referred to Psyche in the third person in the same post.

i still don't like your downplaying the strength of your reads but i don't think you deserved the tone i took in my most recent posts to you at all, and i apologize for that.

as an aside, really nice to see you back, Nacho.

pedit: this post is to Bingle.

[Bingle]

Nacho looks p town. I’m even more interested in why there’s a vote there. His sequencing is wrong though.

[Nachomamma8]

at this point i'm sort of in awe of myself at how badly i've misread your posts, so i'm just going to sit here and focus on... focusing. you were talking to Farkran there, and even referred to Psyche in the third person in the same post.

i still don't like your downplaying the strength of your reads but i don't think you deserved the tone i took in my most recent posts to you at all, and i apologize for that.

as an aside, really nice to see you back, Nacho.

pedit: this post is to Bingle.

the post where you tell me it's really nice to see me back is directed to bingle?
kind of awkward but OK

can you vote chemist w/me? can we unite in dunking on scum this day phase in order to set up for the incredible reward of forcing scum to kill themselves down the road?

[Bingle]

hey can you sheep me on either chemist or hectic?

Maybe. I feel like I can come around to Hectic town and chemist has done fuckall. I’m pretty confident that fark is town and fark is pretty confident that hec is scum though, so I’m gonna wait for a rebuttal.

[Nachomamma8]

and these are genuine requests. it feels good to be back and to have people calling me town and saying that they're glad to see me but i think the game cracks open pretty solidly with a chemist lynch.
i feel the {Hectic, Psyche, Farkan, Chara} core is a pretty solid one and am open to prodding at those four.

i'm still gonna reread in the meantime but i'm high on life and ready to take a shot at living the dream so am more than happy to procrastinate on finishing on the read in the meantime unless there's something crazy i'm missing currently (like another player) but i don't think so!

[Nachomamma8]

hey can you sheep me on either chemist or hectic?

Maybe. I feel like I can come around to Hectic town and chemist has done fuckall. I’m pretty confident that fark is town and fark is pretty confident that hec is scum though, so I’m gonna wait for a rebuttal.

why does fark think hec is scum?

[Hectic]

@mod: V/LA until the 10th.

[Nachomamma8]

This is the correct level of paranoia to have around me. Or anyone, really, unless you have such strong meta experience with a player that you can bypass standard ways of hunting. There are people with near unlimited scumranges. Townreading said people under certain circumstances is ok, but those reads should never be 100% strength level in one sense or the other. I think this also applies to Hectic, or Bingle for that matter. Or Amrun herself.

like call me a skeptic but don't you think it's a little unreasonable that Fark says that Hectic has a near unlimited scumrange when he's played two games as scum and neither of those games were particularly impressive? when both games he played as scum featured a flat tone and a lack of his glowing and engaged personality?

[Chara]

mafia is really hard but i'm confident in sparing Hectic. that's about it. i got less confident about my reasons from Farkran and the wifom but fundamentally he's town and the best option for a spare today.

more interested in that than a Chemist lynch, though Nacho's made some good points about Chemist's earlygame reads. i still think his tone is towny but i also remember not liking the reasoning for Pine being LHF.

pedit: i'm hoping that your reply to 1287 is a joke Nacho but to be immensely clear in the face of me being an idiot, the majority of the post is to Bingle and the part at the end is to you because it's nice to see you! alright!

pedit again: Nacho, can you convince me on Farkran town? i'm wondering if i've been biased against him for a few reasons but it's not enough to be comfortable townreading him. i'm still working on his ISO and he made a good point in that i've been pretty unfair.

[Bingle]

TLDR Hectic/Chara look aligned, hectics reasons for tr Chara apply equally well to replica and are thus maybe faked, and I’m pretty sure there was a third reason, but I don’t remember what it is.

[Chara]

hey can you sheep me on either chemist or hectic?

Maybe. I feel like I can come around to Hectic town and chemist has done fuckall. I’m pretty confident that fark is town and fark is pretty confident that hec is scum though, so I’m gonna wait for a rebuttal.

why does fark think hec is scum?

i was hoping you were aware of this reason given he was in your townblock but i guess not. if you ISO me and Farkran there should be somewhere where this is discussed heavily. another perspective on that whole conversation would also be nice, because the frustration i felt is why i unvoted him (in my experience i don't get that annoyed with trying to understand to understand scum) but i'm of two minds on the whole thing.

pedit: that's also a TLDR. Farkran also mentioned town having no reason to delay their own spare, though i disagree with that point pretty heavily given scum has even more reason

not

to delay their own spare.

[Nachomamma8]

hey can you sheep me on either chemist or hectic?

Maybe. I feel like I can come around to Hectic town and chemist has done fuckall. I’m pretty confident that fark is town and fark is pretty confident that hec is scum though, so I’m gonna wait for a rebuttal.

why does fark think hec is scum?

i was hoping you were aware of this reason given he was in your townblock but i guess not. if you ISO me and Farkran there should be somewhere where this is discussed heavily. another perspective on that whole conversation would also be nice, because the frustration i felt is why i unvoted him (in my experience i don't get that annoyed with trying to understand to understand scum) but i'm of two minds on the whole thing.

pedit: that's also a TLDR. Farkran also mentioned town having no reason to delay their own spare, though i disagree with that point pretty heavily given scum has even more reason

not

to delay their own spare.

i asked that question more for the me understanding bingle benefit as opposed to the me understanding farkran benefit for the record.

[Nachomamma8]

i can also see chemist town tone early.

but chemist tone after i went on my long hiatus isn't so great and his progression from the "pine is just LHF and scum is pushing him" stage to his current reads are also not great.