Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[shos]

Spoiler: spoilered for size

Honestly thinking ico is scum after nokilling N1.

@6462: yeah, I know that. I also know none of your alignments and whether or not scum had even made a kill. As I have stated, if you had read my posts, I think it is a perfectly viable option to nokill after a stupid information-less D1 like the one here;

especially since you know there is no cop (doesn't go with detective). So no, that perhaps makes RC likely town, but not confirmed

- and it definitely does not make you town in any way.

@6463:
I have read everything after page 200, perhaps most of pages 180-200. ISOed xtomx fully, skimmed through saudades ISO. Buts and pieces of various other things like posts which my teammates literally directed me to go read (mostly RCE and Ari I think) and any posts that get mentioned in recent discussions.
Does this help.?

@6465: I did know about it eventually. It just doesn't make anyone conftown. My teammates have townread both of you regardless of the claim iirc, so that didn't come up I guess since most talk was about their scumreads, not townreads.

@6466: nope. If you think 'caught up' means 'have read all 250 pages and remember them by heart's then yes, it's a lie; but on my end, I had to read up over the pages you guys blab when I'm asleep, iirc that was 217-237 and after than some 240-245 or something. Your mudslinging is noted

6467: some.more words twisting!!! Your misrep of 'will do nothing to the game's is not nearly what I said. I said stop looking for the entire scumteam - instead, hunt them one by one, here, take xtomx for ezample. Your misrep sucks ass.

@6469: you do realize that scum can probably kill people at night, yes?
If we nolynch we get the information of who gets killed. Since we are even number of players now, a death is practically equal to a cop result chosen by the mafia. Et voila, information!

The bolder looks like a scumslip that confirms RC town and Ico town (as if we needed more for RC)

You know implies that he already knew it.

VOTE: shos

Can we lynch shos already?

Also previous, GAMMA called flopz bad based on D1 alone
HITO complained about the transition between this post to this one, feels like WKing of Bella

..I asked hito for his notes about ari/xtomx, we'll see what he brings up lol


Do I have agreement that we NL today and choose the lynch of tomorrow?

No

You are wet noodling to protect Ari (my opinion) or Flopz (Titus’s)

Math, your repetitive attempts to find 'scumslips' look fake as shit.
1. Have you seen, ever, a normal game with both a cop and a detective?

2. what the hell is wet noodling lol

1. Yes not on this site. I have been playing mafia for more than 20 years so I’ve seen a lot. It is rare though.
2. It’s when you play intentionally bad to die quick

???
Well, I do have to admit that when you're playing with a foot on your computer and your ass bare, sometimes the air conditioning makes farts, and you know missiles fly backwards and stuff. But all that is completely unrelated. Oh wait, what?
How does a rare thing that happens in other sites over a span of 20 years matter here?

2. ??????????????????????? lol wuat

[shos]

Spoiler: titus

I am not changing all the pronouns in this it was hard enough to paraphrase.

Titus just hasn’t shut up about it sooo

Spoiler: Titus’s VCA that i dont agree with

Dear Town,

Titus rapping at you. I've worded this a little funky to make this stuff easier for Mathblade to rephrase and repost yeah.

The answer is shos and Flopz. I'll answer why in play and then in VCA terms. Most of y'all favor play over VCA anyway.

Looking at the N1 no kill. This was almost certainly RCE being protected from scum using a mind blender, with an outside shot of Math. I say almost certain because of what the result scum wanted for day 2. Scum wanted RC tunnelled, it just bit them in the hindquarters. Sausuade got caught doing it. When RC gets tunnelled and the game focuses on him, he turns into a barcisstic who dominates this thing we do for fun. It's why I blacklisted him. If I knew Math and RC would have to do this thing for fun together, I wouldn't have had Math on my team. It was a powder keg that exploded and I bear responsibility for that. RCE dying would have caused Math to tunnel on RCE and that happened anyway.

Looking at the Night 2 kill – It's RC. Why would scum spend all that time getting a drama fight to happen if they wanted to kill RC? Their plan changed when a) RC figured this out and b) Math turned into a big, vocal and distracting wrong voice.

Looking at the Night 3 kill – Why was Bella killed over Ico? The first, and wrong, instinct is to try and think well maybe Ico's scum. That's unlikely. Ico and Bella's roles likely co-exist to create confusion. Matching with the scum profile, Bella was shot because she was doing nothing, conftown and scum want the gamestate the same.

Shos and Flopz are widely considered as town. This is because they have sat back and let town tear itself apart. If I must be lynched to prove it, fine. Do not ever lynch teacher, Ari, or Skitter.

Now, onto my VCA. I'm not including the colored posts. That would be impossible for Math to rephrase according to the game rules. I expect this post to take him one or two sixty minute periods to paraphrase without it. My VCA will also be highly truncated due to the rephrasing requirements that put Math in an uneviable position. (Math commentary try two days off and on with a fever...you use a lot of words brevity is better)

RVS, shos and Flopz slots chainsaw each other. Suspicious but not auto guilty at this point.

1.8

The Flopz wagon stalls out when town all jump on. Funny.


1.19

The worst gets wagoned against RC. I postuate the RC wagon is entirely town, and this is where the scumteam decided plan rile up RC was going into effect give or take two Vcs.


2.6
This is where I locktown Skitter. Scum are on skitter with no counterwagon whatsoever. Look who skitter is wishing to be removed from the game... shos.

2.8-2.9

Shos gets five votes, none of them scum. Remember this too. Look at Sausaude executing plan rile up RC as well.

2.11
Biggest counterpoint in my theory. Why flopz pick shos over RC? Because to survive scum have thrown distancing votes throughout the game. They'll suppose my VCA is more simplistic than it is. Flopz is bussing to be a late game carry.

2.13

Similar bus by Flopz in late game spot.

2.14

Flopz diverts to try and rile up Math and kill the Sausade wagon.

2.15

Scum can't get a wagon to take on town that vote Sausade.

2.16 to End

Sausade begs to be lynched

Day 3

This is Math's uncontrolled insistance that RCE had to be lynched. Scum didn't fight back. Scum will turn this around on Math.(Math commentary literally not a thing since mechanically RCE had to go. This always was the right play and I feel no regret over it.).

Sorry Math this took so long.

Now for fucks sake I did what was asked and this day can end. Awesome

*goes to get more meds*

Well this was extremely underwhelming
let's see the timing

[shos]

Well the timing makes sense so still null sadly

[Flopz]

VOTE: Shos I'm happy to move this to L-2.

However, you did explain your reads on everyone else - but not me? Why the scumread?

Brief UNVOTE: Shos. Hectic is on the case, not gonna turn that down.

DO THAT
Hectic literally just successfully hunted me-scum down.

I did on the post with the tiered reads and then wrote everyone else after in a seperate post.

I've been having an interesting conversation with Hectic rn and I've got a question for you. You were more furiated/frustrated as town when you played with him in a cult game. What's the difference here?

[Xtoxm]

Enough chances? I don't recall you every actually asking me something about anything?

Why does you calling me scum have anything to do with my reads developing? au contraire actually, you didn't respond to anything at all and did not talk to me in the least; why would my opinion change? A development does not mean a change if you're scum lol

the point was not to interact, reset my read on you and see if you re-evaluated over a period of time as my play changed. it did not.

I did not fail to react on your hooding. I specifically said that I think it matters only if the said hooding has been noted BEFORE the flip. You simply choose to not read my posts.

weak reasoning to dismiss evidence that points to me being town. the only logical counter to it - which you have not mentioned at all as a reason for doubting me afaik - is that rce was nb'd and the alien blocked it. in which case scum!tox defends rce, not 180s his read to kill him and immediately open up the only hole of doubt.

Fail to acknowledge that you improved, lol. It's not like you've been extremely town, or anyone asked. You did post more, that doesn't make you town suddenly. Seems like anyone who calls you town gets town points? lol
And pleae do explain how being slow on reaction times makes anyone scum, lol.

not extremely town perhaps, but theres enough here to see that im town now. everyone elses reads have changed. you're literally the only person still calling me scum.

ive caught scum with this tell before
ie, having a slowroll/uni sr start (not intentionally, but out of circumstance), then becoming townie over time and seeing who gets caught with their pants down when sr-ing me is no longer reasonable.
and hes tripling down on it after being called out, which is exactly what scum!shosin did in that game (starcraft, if anyone cares)

[shos]

VOTE: Shos I'm happy to move this to L-2.

However, you did explain your reads on everyone else - but not me? Why the scumread?

Brief UNVOTE: Shos. Hectic is on the case, not gonna turn that down.

DO THAT
Hectic literally just successfully hunted me-scum down.

I did on the post with the tiered reads and then wrote everyone else after in a seperate post.

I've been having an interesting conversation with Hectic rn and I've got a question for you. You were more furiated/frustrated as town when you played with him in a cult game. What's the difference here?

I was never town there, lol, I started the game as cult. Perhaps fooled people that I got culted so good that after endgame? XD

[implosion]

Spoiler: of almanacs songs are sung

Vote Count 4.4

shos

(3): MathBlade, Iconeum, Xtoxm

MathBlade

(1): skitter30

Aristophanes

(1): teacher

Not Voting (3): Aristophanes, shos, Flopz

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 1:00 AM PST on the 20th, in (expired on 2020-02-20 05:00:00).

[shos]

Enough chances? I don't recall you every actually asking me something about anything?

Why does you calling me scum have anything to do with my reads developing? au contraire actually, you didn't respond to anything at all and did not talk to me in the least; why would my opinion change? A development does not mean a change if you're scum lol

the point was not to interact, reset my read on you and see if you re-evaluated over a period of time as my play changed. it did not.

I did not fail to react on your hooding. I specifically said that I think it matters only if the said hooding has been noted BEFORE the flip. You simply choose to not read my posts.

weak reasoning to dismiss evidence that points to me being town. the only logical counter to it - which you have not mentioned at all as a reason for doubting me afaik - is that rce was nb'd and the alien blocked it. in which case scum!tox defends rce, not 180s his read to kill him and immediately open up the only hole of doubt.

Fail to acknowledge that you improved, lol. It's not like you've been extremely town, or anyone asked. You did post more, that doesn't make you town suddenly. Seems like anyone who calls you town gets town points? lol
And pleae do explain how being slow on reaction times makes anyone scum, lol.

not extremely town perhaps, but theres enough here to see that im town now. everyone elses reads have changed. you're literally the only person still calling me scum.

ive caught scum with this tell before
ie, having a slowroll/uni sr start (not intentionally, but out of circumstance), then becoming townie over time and seeing who gets caught with their pants down when sr-ing me is no longer reasonable.
and hes tripling down on it after being called out, which is exactly what scum!shosin did in that game (starcraft, if anyone cares)

1. What's the point of NOT INTERACTING if you want to see how my read on you changes over time?
2. I stated that BEFORE you claimed. keep going.
2. There's also the very viable possibility of first neighbourizing a fellow scummer in order to later add in a third, so that it looks like they're not together.
3. There's enough for me to not policy lynch you. not nearly enough to call you town; not to mention that 'enough' is not the word. the content is what matters, not the amount - and you supplied neither, imo. You've caught scum scumreading someone without chanigng their stance? wow! that's rare! happens like very single goddamn game, lol.

also starcraft? thought it was warcraft 3: reforged?

[Flopz]

I was never town there, lol, I started the game as cult. Perhaps fooled people that I got culted so good that after endgame? XD

He said he was talking about this game. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81377

[Flopz]

I was never town there, lol, I started the game as cult. Perhaps fooled people that I got culted so good that after endgame? XD

He said he was talking about this game. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81377

Ignore this, Hectic made a mistake.

[Flopz]

Overall, Hectic's conclusion is paraphrased as thus: his team's reads and the NL think feels genuine and towny. But he's being a little too agreeable/friendly while pushed, which is more in line with his scum meta over town meta I think. However, Yeah, his stances make no sense as scum tbh and even now, it doesn't feel like he's panicking. (this has since changed and he's been a bit pannicky now)

Hectic is giving him a just about Townlean so for this reason I'm gonna hold off for rn and will go to bed. I'll see what happens tomorrow and I'm gonna need to do some thinking.

[MathBlade]

That’s a lot of words defending shos and pushing a scumread.

[MathBlade]

Not pushing** fuck autocorrect

[teacher]

@Shos -- why arent you voting rn?

Same @Ari

I am on, and will be rejoining, in about 1.5 hrs. Grades were due today -- my kiddos again did number 1 in our network of schools, so yay!

[skitter30]

If shos is scum, I think that p much clears the both of you. Skitter reconsidering to shos, and math hard pushing shos today could really help solve this game. Skitter, despite maths shenanigans previous day, how do you feel about him pushing shos like this? @Math, your thoughts on skitter's feelings wrt shos?

shos's string of posting today has been awful, and i am indeed considering voting there
i do not townread math tho, i still think he's scum, and would vastly prefer him, and the fact that math wants him makes me wary.
why are you so sure math's town?

[skitter30]

@Shos -- why arent you voting rn?

Same @Ari

I am on, and will be rejoining, in about 1.5 hrs. Grades were due today -- my kiddos again did number 1 in our network of schools, so yay!

oh sweet, 'grats

p sure shos is going to tell you he wants a nolynch

ari seems to have disappeared again

[skitter30]

@Skitter, math's entire solve right now is literally this, minus himself obviously. Like, literaly shos + ari. Can you at least engage with math over that?

i currently think that scum is most likely in {math, ari, shos} and that scum in that group are realizing they're cornered and are trying to distance

[skitter30]

shos is being kinda scary-bad rn tho

[skitter30]

also why have we all collectively removed flopz out of the lynchpool again?
can someone explain why they're townreading him plz

[skitter30]

..I asked hito for his notes about ari/xtomx, we'll see what he brings up lol


Do I have agreement that we NL today and choose the lynch of tomorrow?

yes, i would like to hear more about ari/xtoxm, plz prod hito

and no, we are not remotely in agreement that we nl tomorrow and choose the lynch tomorrow, stop trying to make this a thing

[skitter30]

My thoughts on Skitter’s feelings are she has seen me as scum
She is rightfully paranoid of my scum game but she has a huge bias she needs to work through

i really don't think i'm biased tho, i don't understand how your like entire day3 comes from town

[skitter30]

Spoiler: the alluringly subtle fragrance of an ouroboros

Vote Count 2.6

skitter30

(4): MathBlade, Iconeum, Saudade, Xtoxm

shos

(2): skitter30, RadiantCowbells

Aristophanes

(2): Flopz, teacher

RadiantCowbells

(1): RCEnigma

MathBlade

(1): Aristophanes

Not voting (2): shos, Bellaphant

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 4 PM PST on January 31st, in (expired on 2020-01-31 20:00:00).

@math:

can you get titus to explain this vc again?
if it's shos+flopz+saudade scared of me trying to lynch shos why weren't flopz + shos on me here, why were they wool-gathering on ari and not voting

also i don't udnerstand how the nka points to shos and flopz in particular

[teacher]

Hey, so Im going to be reading through a bit and working on solving solo, but Im down to jam if people want.

@Skit, fwiw, I think Shos's no lynch thing makes sense for someone with a math background. To be clear, I dont think it makes sense in real life, but I can see it from their perspective. Like, pure odds wise, its changes us from:
6/2...nl....3/2 worst case (25% followed by 40% chance)
to
nl....5/2....3/2 (29% followed by 40%)

That said, given that Ico is (sadly) town, its NEVER going to happen nor make sense today.

[teacher]

By the way, Im going to be making my sustained Ari push/case tonight. I really really would rather that be the lynch so it would help if you have anything other than "blah meta" to back it up.

[MathBlade]

Hey, so Im going to be reading through a bit and working on solving solo, but Im down to jam if people want.

@Skit, fwiw, I think Shos's no lynch thing makes sense for someone with a math background. To be clear, I dont think it makes sense in real life, but I can see it from their perspective. Like, pure odds wise, its changes us from:
6/2...nl....3/2 worst case (25% followed by 40% chance)
to
nl....5/2....3/2 (29% followed by 40%)

That said, given that Ico is (sadly) town, its NEVER going to happen nor make sense today.

Just...no. Those odds assume failure. Like rip.