Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

First

[OkaPoka]

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

this is just garbage

can you find a post before this post

[OkaPoka]

Because this is I think the second time you've accused me of misrepping you and whenever I point out that post you just don't ever respond

[Flavor Leaf]

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

Nope, but i found this post.

I also went on to call Sherlock scum right after too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because this is I think the second time you've accused me of misrepping you and whenever I point out that post you just don't ever respond

Misrep

[OkaPoka]

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

Nope, but i found this post.

I also went on to call Sherlock scum right after too.

Yes and you flipped on me after I made my post calling your post garbage I mean you acknowledge that in your reads flip which makes it all the more puzzling why you keep claiming that I'm misrepping you.

Like in your own analysis you say me coming after you makes me scum. But like now you are arguing that me coming after you came after your reads flip? Which doesn't make sense because its what lead to your read flip.

[Sherlock and Watson]

pedit: yeah i know why didn't you say something along the lines of wow flavor townier i think

I probably wanted to see where it went, I don't remember which exact part of your thing you're thinking of but anything that makes you more readable is probably good for the thread

-S

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, it’s in my ISO explaining my flip on you.

It had nothing really to do with your posting moreso than Krazy’s.

Along with me going over my drafting spec

[Flavor Leaf]

And you’re bleeding scum read as scum for wrong reasons

[Sherlock and Watson]

If we can lynch Kaito before page 100 I'll make a point to get the Penguin to come in here and drop some hot gif action

-S

[OkaPoka]

Spoiler: Timeline of quotes

wanna lynch flavor leaf

VOTE: flavor

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

this is just garbage

One of Krazy hydra/Ankamius, but exactly one of them.

You're kinda looking at this the wrong way though

Duck and SS get to pick

If Ali goes first and does a top priority heavy that isn't Ank, then Duck could very easily double on us for town

Which is precisely why you're basically just looking at the pick logic totally wrong, you're over-prioritizing what is actually an incredibly difficult puzzle to analyze. Focus on play, Boon, before you actually make me want to policy lynch you for real Like half of what you've said since you stopped actually solving is like pure cancer

-S

So? I post a lot. It’s not like I don’t analyze play whilst all this.

I also think my posting is fantastic for reactions.

We’ll see.

If I’m right, like I usually am when people push at me, at least 2/3 partially, you can ask PenguinPower on my solve capabilities at the expense of some minor casualties.

And this is a solid base of the puzzle. I found a good amount of puzzle pieces, and looking at em all before I start trying to piece it together.

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

I no longer town read OkaPoka either. Maki/Oka/Krazy slot have probably 1 maybe 2 scum within them, but more likely 1.

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your fake push

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your

fake

push

Your real push happened before mine, your fake push happened after

Okay what about lying about the history to create a false gamestate premise

No, you’re the one lying. I split your push into pre flavor being here and after. You’re one after i showed up is fake

Nah, i chang3d my mind on you before you were ever interactin with me, don’t misrep.

Like the above is an extremely condensed timeline of posts, there are a lot more relevant scum indcative posts of flavor but for all of your sakes I just quoted some important timeline events to make the conversation easier.

I think its pretty clear that

a) Flavor townread me at one point or the other
b) I shaded Flavor after his townread of me
c) He flipped his read on me after I shaded him, he acknowledges it here:

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

Like he has this idea bouncing around in his head that I'm targetting him because of his ability to draft speculate, which I mean I guess is fair? I did originally shade his draft speculation as garbage, but we can well -establish the fact that Flavor Leaf has in fact, flipped his read on me partially due to me shading him. This is self-evident.

So well, game moves on, and Flavor makes some interesting comments where suddenly he paints this picture ~a picture mind you where it looks like I'm pushing him reactively, it's the implication of a chainsaw defense, omgus push you name it. Which I find strange and lacking of, well consistency? Like we can acknowledge town are hypocrites and fickle, but when a decent portion of your read flip is a result of something happen, its awfully confusing and weird to suddenly misremember that detail isn't it? I mean sure, its perfectly possible for Flavor to have "gamestate" reasons to continue scumreading me, but what lead him there is exactly my shade on his draft spec, he

LITERALLY

acknowledges this and now he acts like I'm just simply acting in response to everything?

Which makes this even more strange, because Flavor Leaf, after being pressed on it, clarifies that I indeed had two pushes this game. A real push first, and a fake push. Which is weird because he never at first acknowledges the legitimacy of my first push until after he is pressed about it, and does so now in order to self-rationalize some sort of internal consistency. Like he continues to try and qualify and muddle his claim of how events transpire when its pretty clear that the start of his scumread on me is very much diametrically opposed to how he's trying to push me now. He's pushing me based on the implication that I'm omgusing, let's be honest. Since he hasn't really mentioned whatever that draft spec was nor is he really willing to elaborate much on his gamestate read. But that's just something townies don't do is it? You see townies add on their case constantly and let it evolve, but the core of the scumread isn't just something town forget in what? ~span of 24 hours?

idk dude maybe I'm just rambling but I figured making a post like this would be helpful since I appear not to be in the minority, but literally the sole person here who sees this.

[OkaPoka]

i didn't proofread that but also i figured maybe when i wake up later today

VOTE: flavorleaf

this can happen

if it doesnt ill just find someone cute to hang out with

[Flavor Leaf]

And you think ScumFL, year of 2019 alone won 10 scum games, would be that obvious about flip flopping?

[OkaPoka]

And you think ScumFL, year of 2019 alone won 10 scum games, would be that obvious about flip flopping?

I mean comments like these, which I can probably find at least one more in your iso and many of your games are extremely effective and well - manipulative, though probably not AI so its best I don't case them up because you will do stuff like this on both sides.

I just want to make sure everyone here doesn't just buy into comments like these as evidence why Flavor Leaf is town.

Because if you break it down, it just leads to a bit of weird logic where nothing can really be incriminating to Flavor Leaf because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious, right? Like operating under this assumption just leads to WIFOM and self doubt because well, its like the RC argument where nothing is really incriminating to RC because scum!RC would've done x,y,z and won the game already. Like nothing can really stick to Flavor Leaf being scum because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious! Is the conclusion that would be drawn from this every time.

It's annoying and it works but before you go on and tell me why something like flip flopping is a special case that makes sense I'd like to tell you that as town Flavor Leaf has done this and it worked decently well where he was able to dodge lynches since he went back to the scum!Flavor isn't this obvious right. And Flavor as either alignment can pick that up and use it for future games so its not really AI.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons as to why a scum!Flavor just would've messed up here, or did a calculated play. I mean results-based analysis is the devil and all, but nobody is really considering him to be scum from these flops, I mean you have people townreading him for it and you even have people like AaronFrost who literally want me to go point out why flip flopping and wifom logic is scum motivated. Well, flip flopping by itself isn't really that scum motivated, its a lot more contextual than just saying Flavor Leaf flip flopped so he must be scum -that isn't what I'm arguing here, flip flopping isn't AI. Its the fact that he is conveniently leaving out details to push me in a way that contradicts his flip flop is what, in my eyes, so damning. You can of course tack on the whole chaos and confusion argument as well here, but that's a different premise as to why Flavor is scum that isn't going to be explored here. I want to just focus on this aspect of Flavor's game here, and why you shouldn't just buy into this crap, it works, he knows it works, and he's re-labelling my argument and boiling it down into a slightly morphed argument that is more easily defended against.

[Sherlock and Watson]

Oka I feel like you're identifying all the reasons that Boon starts as a scumread and has to earn a townread in my book but you're missing the town for his baseline scumminess

You're right that his manipulative posts shouldn't be townread but at the end of the day he's still trying to solve the game and not just being scum

I wish I could explain it better but I expect you're going to sleep and I'm also quite tired right now and my arm hurts from typing but I really wish you'd join on Kaito which is actually a wagon that flips scum

<3 you keep on birbin tho birb

-S

[OkaPoka]

reeeee

[Flavor Leaf]

If i were scum, scum would have won by now

[Flavor Leaf]

If i were scum, scum would have won by now

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe you’re just town with Flavor Fever

[Titus]

VC 1.12 Baker

Sherlock and Watson (3) - Pine, Amrun, Ankamius
Maki and Kaito (3) - Sherlock and Watson, Spiffeh, Flavor Leaf
TrueSoulEnergy (2) - Chemist1422, Espeonage
Bitmap (2) - Hectic, gobbledygook
Pine (1) - Maki and Kaito
Ankamius (1) - Bitmap
OkaPoka (1) - AaronFrost
Amrun (1) - TrueSoulEnergy
FlavorLeaf (1) - OkaPoka



Not voting (2)- Frozen Angel, Reasonably Rational

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.


Titus endorses: Someone with a wagon
Alisae endorses: Maki and Kaito

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-02-17 09:30:00)

If you're on a wagon by yourself, please move to a wagon with someone else. If we do not get sizable wagons by the weekend, I will have to dictate one. This will definitely rule out someone as a mason and dictate trusting me on Day 1. Not good. So make wagons people.

VOTE: Someone with a wagon

[Amrun]

Not sure I BoP anyone still living tbh,

What does this mean? There are dead people in this game or are you talking about dead people on site?

I have agreed with several things this slot has posted at key moments so I dislike the lynch, but I also very much dislike the comp?

By "this slot" you mean Dunn? If so: Which points did you like that he made and why is him making those points town indicative?

-S

I meant I’d follow Glork to the ends of the earth. But rereading your original comment, were you saying people should rely on me to read your slot? If so, I think that’s a bizarre comment when I think we have one completed game together, and Ank would be the one to fit this bill?

I honestly am not good at keeping track of hydra heads, but the thing that’s sticking out in my memory is a post I previously quoted. M+K are the only ones seemingly as perturbed by your wandering claim as I am.


Also, fuck everything. I literally went to sleep after my last post, and woke up to like 15 more pages...

[Amrun]

Have you met TSE?

I feel like TSE is playing in a manner that suggests he has no confidence in his reads but is trying something different and hoping for the best which to me strikes me as at least nominally above town and if I check my notes I thought I noticed something that felt actually townie in his tone earlier, I don't think he's a good day 1 personally

-S

But goddamnit, I agree with this post

[gobbledygook]

VOTE: Maki and Kaito

[Ankamius]

Amrun where are your reads even at atm

[TrueSoulEnergy]

VOTE: TSE