Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Psyche]

So, right now you have enough confidence in yourself that:

- i am the worst player that ever existed, both as town because i have terrible reads, and as scum because you caught me immediately
- amrun has shit-level reads
- psyche is the worst town player that ever existed for giving momentum to my spare wagon
- bingle is so town that his flip will glow like pristine elucidated emeralds

So much that you are willing to:
- spare a slot you don't like over Chara or Bingle himself
- concede your strategy, that you promoted with such vehemency ever since you joined, by lynching a slot in d2

To prevent a bingle flip.

Yes, absolutely yes. Yes to all of these loaded questions and assertions.

Psyche if you're listening you are the worst town player I have ever encountered for this single read in a single game and I don't know how you live with yourself. You are rivaled only by Amrun, whose reads match up with mine completely minus one, because her reads are OBVIOUSLY SHIT

im gonna make fun of you for this post when the game is over jsyk

[Farkran]

Just a theory. What's your scumcase on me again? I know i've been asking more than once but i'd like to be updated on your thoughts.

Mostly based on the arguments you were using to push Hectic/Chara/Replica start of day. I can get why you thought my SPARE>FIGHT>SPARE on Chara could look weird, since it kinda reeks of scum SPARING someone while they townread them, and FIGHTING someone when they scumread them, and flipping again, but other than that, a lot of your arguments have flaws which have already been pointed out by Chara/Replica/Nacho, and I'm more inclined to believe you're scum who's derailing a town SPARE train that rarely concedes any points/sees reason, rather than extremely an stubborn townie that is constantly wrong (sorry if this is a little harsh but most of your arguments do revolve around scum!me), and using flawed arguments.

Where are my arguments flawed? You and Chara had terrible interactions, you acknowledged it, and that's the entire basis of my scumcase of both. I have no reasons to concede that, although i am willing to explore different theories that would explain the current gamestate. I have been denied talking about scumreads for a long time, since everything you (generally referring to everyone) wanted to talk about was sparing. I don't think my position is extreme.

Also, the Suji IC thing from yesterday, and I think your stance on SPARE/FIGHT is a little too extreme. I mean, you played in that townhunting game, and town managed to lynch 6 town in a row (lynching town was the aim), I don't see why you're SO averse to it. And yes, I know, that game had flips, but this game has a WIN upon 4 successful SPARES.

Er... because town lost that townhunting game? Did you realize why town lost? Neither of my two partners voted for my lynch there, yet i achieved it (note to the others: game was a jester nightless, win condition requires to die, so my lynch means i was being largely townread). As i said several posts ago, you of all people should know that rolling scum doesn't imply being bad at the game. Good scum also exist. Me scumreading you is a sign of respect that you deserve, for how you have played your recent games with me + the now finished Open TM where i was cooperating with NaCl to trick you. Amrun was in that game too.

WRT Replica: i read the "insulting post" on a pedit and i didn't notice it was sarcastic. I take back my accusation. By the way, none of those was a loaded question: all of them are specifically worded that way to show you to what extent you're sticking your arm out to prevent a Bingle flip. It was you who called it the brink of disaster, not me. And i'd like to know why. (haven't read the towncase yet, i was answering to hectic)

[Farkran]

I messed up the bbcode but it should be understandable

[Psyche]

i would prefer to put off sorting hectic for another day
i'd say the basis of my TR for him is just less concrete than mine for other leading alternatives

[Chara]

at some point, after being answered several times, i would stop asking why and leave it. i don't see how you get any more out of it.

pedit@Psyche: but Farkran, you're sure on that?

[Psyche]

getting a town role pm doesn't turn you into a saint nor into a virtuoso

[Hectic]

it's progression which

could

be perceived as scum-indicative, but there's many other scenarios where that progression DOES make sense from a town PoV, if you look at the events surrounding them, which you are failing to consider. Regarding the flaws in your arguments, it was stuff like the list of events in timeline that you presented, and where Chara refuted your points and Amrun thanked for having the patience to, I'm too lazy to go back and find the posts.

Very interesting that you were coaching NaCl into manipulating me. Good job on that, it worked till later on.

[Chara]

Psyche: poetic, but i was more asking for some sort of additional explanation that isn't just "Farkran

is

town, he's just bad".

[Hectic]

i would prefer to put off sorting hectic for another day
i'd say the basis of my TR for him is just less concrete than mine for other leading alternatives

[Chara]

because my argument for scum Farkran has never been "well, he's bad."

at this point it's more like i find it hard to believe town Farkran doesn't reconsider when even players townreading him seem to think he's awful, because that's all i keep getting whenever i ask why he's town.
"well, i don't agree, but i like his fervor", or whatever it was you just said.
and i'm not calling him awful. to be clear. the issue here is i haven't seen evidence of Farkran really considering any outside opinions about... basically anything. well not the only issue but an issue.

Farkran: there are other things i'd like you to respond to but this post especially would be nice.

[Replica]

In 4 spare, sparing a scum instantly tanks our chance of winning below 25%. The strength of the strategy comes from how likely all-town spares are. In 3 spare, sparing a scum means that they won't be forced to remove one. I do not want my strongest scumread spared. I would rather take the spare I'm not sure about but can get a coalition behind than risk a scumread being spared or a bad lynch going through.

Lynching at all removes the possibility of 4 spare. For 3 spare, lynching wrong wastes a mislynch. Lynching my strongest TR means it is both likely to be wrong FMPOV and removes my ideal spare candidate. If a lynch does happen, I want it to be on my top scumread, not on my top townread.

The fact that it does not instantly lose the game does not exclude the day being labeled a disaster. I really don't know how much more obvious I can make this.

[Psyche]

i still dont have a chara read

[Chara]

i still dont have a chara read

do you have any

thoughts

on me at all?

[Psyche]

because my argument for scum Farkran has never been "well, he's bad."

at this point it's more like i find it hard to believe town Farkran doesn't reconsider when even players townreading him seem to think he's awful, because that's all i keep getting whenever i ask why he's town.
"well, i don't agree, but i like his fervor", or whatever it was you just said.
and i'm not calling him awful. to be clear. the issue here is i haven't seen evidence of Farkran really considering any outside opinions about... basically anything. well not the only issue but an issue.

Farkran: there are other things i'd like you to respond to but this post especially would be nice.

what about not considering outside opinions the way farkran has is alignment-indicative?
i'm not seeing a possibility for inference about anything beyond personality in that

[Replica]

What makes the level of Farkran's taking offense so repeatedly great is I'm the only one who says "I don't think he's a townsperson with horrendous reads and awful pushes, I think he's a scum who isn't executing his strategy well." I've said literally nothing about how good his play is if he's town; if I'm wrong I'm not even in a position to judge his reads to begin with. I'd have plenty I could say about his playstyle/points, but I'm not looking to go out of my way to either praise someone's town ability nor put it down. There's a reason I haven't sent verbal affirmations up to the good lord Nacho, the patron saint of townplay, about how good he is.

Other than one line at Nacho he hasn't blinked at all of the "these reads of Farkran's are batshit crazy he can't be scum" lines. Somehow me saying "Yeah if he's scum he's playing poorly imo" has caused the steam to rise considerably.

[Psyche]

i still dont have a chara read

do you have any

thoughts

on me at all?

you are an enigma
i feel like i'm supposed to townread you, but it's just not happening
i have a few guesses why - after all, someone difficult the way you are comes up in every game - but i don't know how to find any clarity about it before you flip

[Chara]

also Replica, i replied to your Bingle towncase and wanted to know if you had anything from this game.

pedit: if Farkran is always like this, it's personality. there's no way to know that without poking at it, which is why i wanted Farkran to reply.
and it's

still

an issue if he's town.

[Chara]

Other than one line at Nacho he hasn't blinked at all of the "these reads of Farkran's are batshit crazy he can't be scum" lines. Somehow me saying "Yeah if he's scum he's playing poorly imo" has caused the steam to rise considerably.

this too. it's what i meant when i wondered why a town Farkran hasn't reconsidered at all. he says he doesn't have a large ego but i feel like receiving townreads for that sort of reason would be really annoying and/or prompt some reconsideration.

[Psyche]

I suppose my perception is that, despite your protestations, the rationales provided for your farkran scumreads are indistinguishable from criticisms of his play.

The "i haven't seen evidence of Farkran really considering any outside opinions about... basically anything" line is, again, a good example of this. How does that connect to him being scum?

I'd really rather Chara answer over anyone else pushing the wagon.

[Replica]

also Replica, i replied to your Bingle towncase and wanted to know if you had anything from this game.

I don't really have anything from Bingle, alimdia I was townleaning from this game alone but I'd have to go back and reread them. I also doubt there'd be anything "decisive" to show anyway in a vacuum.

I don't think I can sell the Bingle case; Nacho I was hoping would interpret the meta the same way but I had no expectations elsewhere. The reason I asked Chemist to just read the slot and see if he could sort them himself was because I'm banking on people independently coming to the same conclusion.

[Psyche]

pedit: if Farkran is always like this, it's personality. there's no way to know that without poking at it, which is why i wanted Farkran to reply.
and it's still an issue if he's town.

if there's "no way to know" if it's personality then why does it come up in 1559, a post ostensibly about why you think farkran is scummy?

[Replica]

ie. I'm very confident that alimdia showed a much more investigative and pondering mindset than they have in their scumgames, and am pretty sure the slot is town for it.

I have seen nothing from Bingle that makes me say "Yeah this guy is totally town", and at this point trying to lay out a case for it would be working backwards.

[popsofctown]

The previous pagetop has become a votecount. You younglings managed to reach a brand new page before I finished, I think, so I'm mentioning it since this might be missed.

[Chara]

I suppose my perception is that, despite your protestations, the rationales provided for your farkran scumreads are indistinguishable from criticisms of his play.

The "i haven't seen evidence of Farkran really considering any outside opinions about... basically anything" line is, again, a good example of this. How does that connect to him being scum?

I'd really rather Chara answer over anyone else pushing the wagon.

that's what i'm trying to figure out here. it's why i'm not voting to lynch him right now. i'm

not

confident he's scum.

if it's his personality, he can show me that himself in response. and if it

is

, maybe that could prompt some sort of rethinking on how he approaches the game. i don't know. mafia's a team game and i don't think soloing it is a good idea in the first place.

and if it's because he's scum, then i think it's a deliberate way to make him difficult to argue with, and possibly an attempt to emulate headstrong town.

again, your reasoning for him being town would be nice.

[Replica]

I see mice in the flavor.

I see no Cats (2019) starring James Corden.

Therefore the posts and flavor, while well-written, funny, and made with love, completely disgust me.

This votecount is DISCARDED

(also sorry but Psyche is doublecounted I appreciate u despite ur resistance to the feline new world order I swear)