Mini Normal 2118: Boon Gets Pretentious - [Day 4]

[Luca Blight]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

[Luca Blight]

Typically when I say 'above' a new page occurs.

[Luca Blight]

Here's a similar post from Frost's last scum game:

And why hadn’t you mentioned the ‘lack of Town vibes’ until now? Again, it seems convenient timing.

The timing of your vote is pretty convenient too.

You were scumleaning me, then townleaning me, then scumleaning me again. Explain that progession.

I suspect him and he immediately turns it round to me. He even uses similar wording like '

explain that progression'.

[Ame]

xD it is pretty funny how similar they are. However, the "explain the progression" phrasing at the end of lines is an Aaron idiosyncrasy, not a scumAaron idiosyncrasy. Additionally he was implying an accusation towards you in the quoted post. Here it came off as a genuine inquiry that naturally led from what you're were discussing.

[Luca Blight]

I believe he was implying an accusation to me here as well.

Are you still unshaken in your belief that I'm scum and Frost is Town?

[Ame]

So you're suspecting me for two votes during RVS, that have both been fully explained, accepting Clidd's reads even though I didn't accept them as you can see in 352, and for 'not stepping on people's toes', even though I've just been stepping on Frost's and earlier yours, Clidd's and Insomnia's?

Your reasoning behind the votes is satisfactory, but their timing is still off. Unnatural really is the best way to describe it. I know it's not something you can really defend against, but I don't really know how else to put it.

Regarding stepping on toes, even when you have been pushing people, it's come off as sort of soft. It doesn't feel like your full weight is behind them. I'll see if I can pick up on some specific phrasing to explain tomorrow.

[Ame]

I believe he was implying an accusation to me here as well.

Are you still unshaken in your belief that I'm scum and Frost is Town?

I'll reconsider after some sleep. Night!

[Luca Blight]

Regarding timing, it's probably from being V/LA and in general being in a different time zone to most players. I usually have to catch-up on loads of pages each day.

Regarding soft pushes, I haven't had reason to massively SR anyone until now. I don't see my push on Frost as being soft.

[Pretentious]

Vote Count 1.06

Vote Counts don’t need to be made every day. Sue me.

Ame

(3): AaronFrost, Wimpy, Emperor flippyNips,

Emperor flippyNips

(2): insomnia, Dsjstr,

Aaronfrost

(1): Luca Blight

Clidd

(1): Hectic

Luca Blight

(1): Ame

Not Voting

(1): Clidd

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-02-17 14:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Don’t be outta pocket.

[clidd]

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

[clidd]

And yes, I am inclined to agree with his conclusions. However, I don't know if it became notorious, but it seems quite obvious that he is instigating Aaron's reaction right now. The dialogue between both was not purely accusatory, but suggestively informative. Luca is trying to sort out the peculiarities of Aaron's behavior in this game, disregarding the neutral standard he usually sets in his games. By doing this now, it becomes more unlikely that Aaron, in case of being scum, will be able to draw his way to the mid/late game, especially due to the verbal discrepancy and high potential for antagonization if, in fact, the 3-way or 4-way players occurs.

[clidd]

Regarding timing, it's probably from being V/LA and in general being in a different time zone to most players. I usually have to catch-up on loads of pages each day.

Regarding soft pushes, I haven't had reason to massively SR anyone until now. I don't see my push on Frost as being soft.

And, in response to the worsening of his suspicions, he made this post aiming to remove his suspect from the comfort zone, consequently, intensifying his search for reads and reactions in this type of interaction.

[Hectic]

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Don't you think if he's scum, you townlocking him would incentive him to not push for your lynch? You're not the only viable mislynch for scum.

Ame, how much have you played with AaronFF/Luca before?

[Hectic]

Doro, I'm assuming you're still good with your Flippo read? Who'd be your second guess for scum?

I still kinda like AaronFF based on the last couple of pages. I think his scumgame is a little different in that he has less interest for solving. Also, the uncertainty/fencesititng looking behaviour is actually a town trait for Aaron (I think), he has unusual confidence in reads as scum:

I'm like 95% confident that davesaz is town.

I also believe that Garmr is telling the truth as dumb of a move as that was, so he is probably town.

and other stuff in this ISO

[clidd]

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Don't you think if he's scum, you townlocking him would incentive him to not push for your lynch? You're not the only viable mislynch for scum.

Ame, how much have you played with AaronFF/Luca before?

No, he would be more cautious. The correct move here, socially speaking, would be to further question my motivations for believing in him and, probably, start a wagon based on the oscillation present in the numerical factor of my activity. This would be done almost automatically, if he had a scum mindset. However, as I was able to observe, he preferred to reveal this aspect and seems to accept, temporarily, my existence for the time being, when he could be building associations out of the read he got from recycling and citing my two scums games. The scenario in which he is taking advantage of this does not come to my mind, and I do not intend to review this position.

[Ame]

@Hectic. Only one game: Aaron scum, Luca town. I could be wrong about Aaron. The post Luca quoted is comedically identical to his post here. But they are both playing very differently than the recent game I played with them, I'm inclined to think their roles are reversed here.

[Ame]

@Insomnia what do you think?

[AaronFrost]

And I gave my reasons for 'slapping a TR on him'.

This feels just like in the last game where I suspected you, and you tried to deflect from it by suspecting me in return.

Why didn't you mention any of this before I called you out?

I was catching up from like page 15 or so last night and the posts that I'm scumreading you for happened after that point. I was going to call you out for them, but you called me out before I got the chance.

And like, think about it, would scumme seriously try the same deflection tactic on the same person two games in a row? I think you and I are both smart enough at this game to know that I wouldn't do that.

[AaronFrost]

I even linked him the games regarding Clidd so he should have already known my reason for not pursuing that initial SR.

I'm aware of your reasons for not pursuing the scumread, but for one the initial scumread was pretty weaksauce (I didn't pursue it at the time because it seemed like clidd would either start contributing, or would flake and be replaced) but okay we can agree to disagree there.

My problem comes from the fact that since he has started contributing, there has been little to no attempt to sort him or analyze his content, and I think Lucatown would take a look at some of the things that are off in his ISO instead of just giving him a free pass.

[AaronFrost]

It's basically taking my point and saying 'no u'. It's a common scum tactic. Town do it as well, but it certainly isn't Town-indicative imo.

I didn't do that though? You pressed me because you thought I was being passive and cautious, so saying 'no u' would be me saying that I think YOU have been passive and cautious, which I am not accusing you of.

[AaronFrost]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

[AaronFrost]

No, he would be more cautious. The correct move here, socially speaking, would be to further question my motivations for believing in him and, probably, start a wagon based on the oscillation present in the numerical factor of my activity. This would be done almost automatically, if he had a scum mindset. However, as I was able to observe, he preferred to reveal this aspect and seems to accept, temporarily, my existence for the time being, when he could be building associations out of the read he got from recycling and citing my two scums games. The scenario in which he is taking advantage of this does not come to my mind, and I do not intend to review this position.

Wouldn't him being more cautious and not pushing the read be scum indicative then? Like if I'm Lucascum who's noticing that townclidd is willing to locktown me based off of almost nothing, then that's someone I'd try to keep alive to give myself extra armor.

Also since you never confirmed one way or the other (unless you did and I missed it), do you hate playing scum? Why did you replace out of those two games?

[Ame]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

I can't help it that you're obvious

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Him not acting in the way you think would be optimal for him as scum is not a town tell. And the idea that he has a secret SR on you is entirely unwarranted and you know it.

And yes, I am inclined to agree with his conclusions. However, I don't know if it became notorious, but it seems quite obvious that he is instigating Aaron's reaction right now. The dialogue between both was not purely accusatory, but suggestively informative. Luca is trying to sort out the peculiarities of Aaron's behavior in this game, disregarding the neutral standard he usually sets in his games. By doing this now, it becomes more unlikely that Aaron, in case of being scum, will be able to draw his way to the mid/late game, especially due to the verbal discrepancy and high potential for antagonization if, in fact, the 3-way or 4-way players occurs.

His read is serious, not investigative. He even stated that this is his first massive scum read.

[Karnage]

VOTE: Karnage

I think Wimpy was BSing. He's stubborn but not unreasonable. If someone makes a point to change what he dislikes, I think he would adjust his perspective on them accordingly. I had completely retracted my low post reasoning on him once I realized he was V/LA, but he kept ignoring that and speaking as if it weren't the case. He also made it seem like he didn't know what I meant about him emulating himself, then perfectly explained it to insomnia later on. The replace out is NAI.

Nah I think I'm right here.

TRing Flippy

I feel better about Aaron from this last page. I still want an answer to my question though Aaron, it wasn't rhetorical!

Pedit: VOTE: Luca

Nope!

Ame, can you walk me through these posts? what happened to your scum read on me?

[clidd]

No, he would be more cautious. The correct move here, socially speaking, would be to further question my motivations for believing in him and, probably, start a wagon based on the oscillation present in the numerical factor of my activity. This would be done almost automatically, if he had a scum mindset. However, as I was able to observe, he preferred to reveal this aspect and seems to accept, temporarily, my existence for the time being, when he could be building associations out of the read he got from recycling and citing my two scums games. The scenario in which he is taking advantage of this does not come to my mind, and I do not intend to review this position.

Wouldn't him being more cautious and not pushing the read be scum indicative then? Like if I'm Lucascum who's noticing that townclidd is willing to locktown me based off of almost nothing, then that's someone I'd try to keep alive to give myself extra armor.

Also since you never confirmed one way or the other (unless you did and I missed it), do you hate playing scum? Why did you replace out of those two games?

The reasoning would be correct if we were talking about a newbie player, considering that this type of thinking is extremely simple and easily detectable. By the way, why would he act this way with you in the game, if you've played together before? it has no cohesion. Any kind of stimulus in the interaction between me and him would be suspicious and therefore would attract unnecessary attention - just what he would avoid in a scum scenario. These two substitutions were coincidental. The question of preference on alignment is indifferent to me, as it depends more on the match. ''Noisy'' games with lots of posts and discussions are less interesting to me, since my tendency is to start the game slower. As well as very fast matches. The middle ground is difficult to find, given the peculiarities of my personal taste, but I believe that over time I will be able to align that.