Mini Normal 2118: Boon Gets Pretentious - [Day 4]

[clidd]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

I can't help it that you're obvious

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Him not acting in the way you think would be optimal for him as scum is not a town tell. And the idea that he has a secret SR on you is entirely unwarranted and you know it.

And yes, I am inclined to agree with his conclusions. However, I don't know if it became notorious, but it seems quite obvious that he is instigating Aaron's reaction right now. The dialogue between both was not purely accusatory, but suggestively informative. Luca is trying to sort out the peculiarities of Aaron's behavior in this game, disregarding the neutral standard he usually sets in his games. By doing this now, it becomes more unlikely that Aaron, in case of being scum, will be able to draw his way to the mid/late game, especially due to the verbal discrepancy and high potential for antagonization if, in fact, the 3-way or 4-way players occurs.

His read is serious, not investigative. He even stated that this is his first massive scum read.

Hum, no. There are no predefined limiters of what is or is not considered a towntell under points formulated from someone's subjective perception, especially if we enter the individual spheres of thought, which are shaped by experiences that diverge between players. So what for me can be a gigantic towntell, for you, however, can be null. I don't see why my speculation about a hidden SR is not valid, considering that a good strategic part of our thoughts are not transparent to the public. An example of this would be to tell your plan openly and expect it to work properly, when you could have used the element of surprise to enhance its effectiveness. And about his tone, obviously, it is not difficult to deduce the fact that Luca questioned more aggressively the reason for Aaron's behavior to collect information, as well as realizing that the seriousness content is relatively suggestive and tends to seek more firmness in the interaction between the two. In other words, try asking a criminal if he murdered a person in a friendly tone, I guarantee your answer will not be satisfactory.

[clidd]

Actually I'm more surprised that you haven't brought it up yourself and just kind of accepted the weaksauce townread on you with little justification.

420 - "Clidd is probably town for now just by the fact that he's actively contributing"

do you actually believe that? Walk me through that read a little more.

Plus: Town Aaron would be able to assimilate this, even though it’s unusual.

[clidd]

Anyway, I am not so focused to position myself with certainty in relation to Aaron, since this could have been a failure in my interpretation about him, as well as Luca, but my position on Luca being locktown continues and will continue even while I'm alive in this game.

[insomnia]

@Insomnia what do you think?

I mean I'm not really agreeing with this line of thought per say but I do think Luca's pretty scummy.

My gut scum team day one that I didn't feel like sharing because it would've been shattered by everyone was Flippy and Luca both scum based on how Luca was posturing around his wagon and his sudden push on you, which is why I ended up focusing on them two the most.

can't really remember what caused that reaction in my head but it popped at me, which is why I started feeling bad about Luca in hindsight

but now with how strong of a stance Luca's taking on Flippy I want to call it a TMI read. Flippy just seems like that type of player that is very hard to read because he's not really conveying any sort of intricate thought process, so Luca feeling so confident about him being town is , especially not because he's trying or anything, but because "he's effortlessly posting". Not even taking a stance of "he doesn't have an agenda", but it's just effortless. How does effort even equate to an alignment read at all?

If he's not town read as town, then why would you feel confident in him being town if he's...not town to you based on his thoughts but rather the "effortless" posting, which is most likely NAI for flippy. It's not even truly effortless, it's kind of just doing enough posting not to get lynched. I take issue with the "effortless" as well, kind of feels like he just brushed him aside without really bothering to read much of his posts.

==============

On another note, I kind of just skimmed through the last 2 pages, I didn't have much motivation to play the game today and I also fucked my leg up during volleyball practice so I might just sit out for a bit.

[insomnia]

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Their post is so inoffensive and nice, it feels like they’re trying to get on people’s good sides.

VOTE: Clidd

I don’t like how he’s ignoring this game.

So far, yes. Not sure I like Luca's clidd vote though.

I have reason to believe Clidd doesn’t like playing as scum, and he’s ignoring this game while being active on site.

I hate making reads on stuff like this, but it is what it is.

I’ll get to this tomorrow, but does anyone else think Ame’s entrance post was very nice/inoffensive?

That’s certainly the feeling I got from it, so their denying it seems strange to me.

I also don’t get was unnatural about my ‘unvote’ (which was actually a change in vote) Ame, so perhaps you could elaborate on that.

So far, yes. Not sure I like Luca's clidd vote though.

I have reason to believe Clidd doesn’t like playing as scum, and he’s ignoring this game while being active on site.

I hate making reads on stuff like this, but it is what it is.

What happened to your Ame read then? No interest in pursuing that further?

Just noticed this.

Nothing happened to my Ame read, but I got pinged by Clidd for the reasons mentioned. I’ve been in two game with him, he was scum in both and did the same thing - posted a couple of times then replaced out, while remaining active onsite. I can conclude from this that he simply hates playing as scum, and my vote will remain on this slot until he starts contributing.

My SR on Ame has since become stronger, however, for reasons I’ve already alluded to and will expand more on soon.

Spoiler:

Town
AaronFrost

Leaning Town
insomnia
dsjstr
Luca Blight
Hectic

Leaning Scum
Wimpy
clidd
Emperor flippyNips

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Liar.

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Vote: flippyNips

This is bad - why are you assuming Flips lied, and did not simply agree with my reasoning?

I notice you changed me to a SR from a TR shortly after this post despite the fact I hadn’t posted in between. Should I assume your initial TR was a lie as well?

I already think scum is in Ame, Clidd, Hectic.

Ame, Clidd being the most likely pairing atm.

I need to see something from that Clidd slot before I even consider hammering, though.

Hectic, unvote Flips please. I want to catch up without worrying about a lolhammer.

Just catching up now...

Yes!

Vote: flippy

Also thank you for the quotes. I had actually completely missed that you had already started to consider town Aaron before you logged off.

Why did you wait for Insomnia to get on-board with your Flippy SR before voting yourself?

Like just read this and if you need me to point to anything specific, ask me.

the bolded is more likely a scum thought than not, there can be re-evaluation, it just reads as really really fake bravado in order to start something, I believe this is at the point where flips was being wagonned like crazy. I don't believe the intent was to sort Ame, it was more a loaded question to make ame look scummy and put her in a defensive position while Luca is distracting from the flippy wagon.

Plus his development of the flippy read is like......He could've read him for his "effortless posting" a lot earlier, I have issues with the time in which he does express this read.

VOTE: Luca

[insomnia]

The bolded is literally setting the grounds for an accusation that I don't believe Luca as town would've gotten to so easily without having anything too strong to focus on in the past. It read to me as an attempt at starting a wagon and it doesn't fit in with my mental map of how a town would start it, which is based around previous probing and a lot of questioning and not just so sudden, there needs to be a really obvious progression to that point. A tunnel doesn't

just

start out of nowhere unless there's something REALLY incriminatory which I don't see from my perspective. I know this because I am the definition of a town tunneler.

And the inoffensiveness that Luca was gut reading scum from Ame isn't really something too strong and it won't enable a tunnel like that. The interaction is just faked and that's it.

[insomnia]

Getting my foot iced up

[insomnia]

Anyway, I am not so focused to position myself with certainty in relation to Aaron, since this could have been a failure in my interpretation about him, as well as Luca, but my position on Luca being locktown continues and will continue even while I'm alive in this game.

literally why

[insomnia]

meh playing mafia is my addiction so i'll probably be here still for a bit and respond to shit or even read last pages

[dsjstr]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

I have to say I agree with this and I saw Luca as being town in the Luca/Aaron clash. Aaron was not fence sitting in his town game with me, but he did start the game slow and then quickly positioned players. Luca and Aaron can you share your thoughts on the flippy wagon. If you have already done so can you quote it for me.

[insomnia]

This is so different than Aaron's scum game and Luca not seeing it is bad. He's also been pushing all town slots (imo) the whole game, which looks even worse, but his progression on Ame reeeeeeks of scum.

yo dsj i liked your slot previously can you maintain that read for me please? if i'm able to town read you correctly here i might be close to a winning PoE tbh

Aaron in here is really inquisitive, reacts well to pressure, whereas in last game he shat his pants when I pushed him.

unless this man has multiple personalities i'm inclined to say this is an obvtown slot

[dsjstr]

Doro, I'm assuming you're still good with your Flippo read? Who'd be your second guess for scum?

I still kinda like AaronFF based on the last couple of pages. I think his scumgame is a little different in that he has less interest for solving. Also, the uncertainty/fencesititng looking behaviour is actually a town trait for Aaron (I think), he has unusual confidence in reads as scum:

I'm like 95% confident that davesaz is town.

I also believe that Garmr is telling the truth as dumb of a move as that was, so he is probably town.

and other stuff in this ISO

Still working on that but I am leaning towards Aaron as my second.

[Luca Blight]

About to go back to sleep, but will just reply to a couple of points before I do:

The bolded question was rhetorical. It was to make a point, to show Ame’s jump to SR Flips based on a change of mind was bad, especially as she’s just done the same herself. Pointing out hypocrisy in such a way is something I literally do every game, so please don’t try and make out it’s scum indicative.

Different play doesn’t mean different alignment. Insomnia, Ame and apparently myself are all playing differently this game, and yet it seems objectively impossible we could all be a different alignment from the last game. Frost being inquisitive isn’t a town tell - he’s asking passive questions which is the easiest thing to fake.

The close-mindedness of Insomnia’s Luca/Flips push is so lazy and terrible that he’s probably scum.

[Luca Blight]

And how was I even tunneling Ame at all? That is entirely baseless, as is your assertion that townies only ‘Tunnel’ after lots of probing. Literally everything you’ve said regarding my Ame progression is nonsense.

[insomnia]

My point was that it couldn’t have been a town tunnel, but thanks for proving my point by implying you weren’t actually tunneling her lmfao

[Luca Blight]

‘Pushing all Town slots all game imo’

This is probably the worst argument I’ve ever heard in a game of mafia. What’s to say your idea of who is Town is any more accurate than mine? You’re calling me scum on the assumption that me and Flippy are scum and everyone else is Town - it’s circular reasoning. The only way you can know what alignment the players I’m pushing are is if you’re scum yourself.

[Luca Blight]

My point was that it couldn’t have been a town tunnel, but thanks for proving my point by implying you weren’t actually tunneling her lmfao

Well, congrats on pointing out the obvious then (even though that wasn’t clear in your post), but I don’t see how a natural conclusion here is ‘if not a town tunnel then must be scum’.

[insomnia]

Hi strawman

I said that I thought it was the case then my case literally says why you two aren’t scum together

My read on you has nothing to do about you and flippy being scum together, I was just oulining my process and keeping it as transparent as possible. It was describing why I started probing you, etc etc

My case is literally not what you described, that just adds more value to it, although low. Those are some additional points and do not even come close to describing my confidence on why I scum read you.

[insomnia]

My point is that it’s faked bravado and not a tunnel, as a tunnel would mean you had previous reasoning that lead up to starting a tunnel. You had none.

That’s literally it.

[Luca Blight]

If me and Flips aren’t scum together, how do you know I’m only pushing Town players?

It’s just a useless argument, and I could say exactly the same about you.

[insomnia]

Because I trust my town reads? To be fair you are pushing the obvious ones, it’s not like you’re pushing the people I’m unsure of.

Your flippy read is TMI.

Your Aaron push is bad.

Your Ame progression was scum.

That’s the case.

[Luca Blight]

My point is that it’s faked bravado and not a tunnel, as a tunnel would mean you had previous reasoning that lead up to starting a tunnel. You had none.

That’s literally it.

And I explained that it was a rhetorical question, not bravado.

If someone says a player is scummy for doing something that they themselves have done, I’m going to point it out 100% of the time. You’re trying to make it look like something it isn’t.

[insomnia]

I don’t know for sure but based on my evaluation right now, these are my thoughts

Stop cherrypicking. Of course I’m gonna scum read you even more if you can’t see certain players that I deem as obvious town as town. What do you even mean????

[Luca Blight]

Because I trust my town reads? To be fair you are pushing the obvious ones, it’s not like you’re pushing the people I’m unsure of.

Your flippy read is TMI.

Your Aaron push is bad.

Your Ame progression was scum.

That’s the case.

Why was my Frost push bad?

My Ame progression wasn’t scum at all, repeating the same BS doesn’t make it any more true.

[insomnia]

Why is your immediate thought that I must be scum because I can’t enter your mind?

That line read as scummy to me, rhetorical or not, that’s what it felt to me. Other people can weigh in on this too.